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PamolaPat
01-22-2004, 01:11 AM
Hey guys, I need a little advice from some of you who frequent the Southern Adirondacks,
I'm taking a fairly large group of people (around 15, as it turns out--this trip got more popular than I expected) on a beginner snowshoeing trip on Saturday, and I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions. It needs to be an area where having a large group size is not expressly prohibited, and also one where dogs are allowed (if on a leash).
Are there any comprehensive resources that give these types of regulations?
Anybody have any particularly favorite areas for hikes which are less than about five miles, 1200 fert ft, within an hour and a half of Schenectady, which can support this many people?
Thank you all in advance for your guidance!
Patrick

IndianChris
01-22-2004, 05:59 AM
I think for New York State, you'll need a permit for groups of 10 poeple or more. Check with the DEC.

TomEske
01-22-2004, 06:10 AM
See the thread on large groups for the rule in NY. No permit required for day activivties. Just pick an area thats not too steep, and not too long to give them time to get used to the shoes. It takes a lot of concenytration for beginners.
Have fun,
Tom

Grumpy
01-22-2004, 06:46 AM
The most restrictive rules about size of party in NY apply to the High Peaks wilderness designated areas. (Limit = 16 for a day group, 9 in an overnight camping group.)

A quick scan of the rules ("Part 190") doesn't indicate day use group size limits for other parts of the Adirondacks. Some restrictions on size and permitting of camping parties apply, though. You probably want to check with the DEC on this for the official word.

G.

TomEske
01-22-2004, 07:32 AM
Thanks Grumpy for setting it straight. I'm not up on the Daks High peaks regs, as I don't get up there. However, I made the assumption (probably not the best idea) that with a group of beginners, Pam probably would not venture into the high peaks area.
You can always call the ranger covering the specific area for the correct information. If you can't find the correct ranger, call the Ranger Supervisor for the region in question.
Tom

Incidently, does anyone know where to find a COMPLETE listing of the regs for the various sections of NYS public lands? I know the DEC likes to spread that stuff out, so we don't get too much information. (Can you say "Obfuscate"?)
Tom

Grumpy
01-22-2004, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by TomEske
Incidently, does anyone know where to find a COMPLETE listing of the regs for the various sections of NYS public lands? I know the DEC likes to spread that stuff out, so we don't get too much information. (Can you say "Obfuscate"?)

Try this LINK to DEC REGS (http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/regs/190.htm) .

G.

TomEske
01-22-2004, 08:10 AM
Thanks Grumpy, but those are the general regs as codified. I am more than familiar with Section 190. I was looking for specific listings of which areas had special restrictions, such as those mentioned above in the Daks. There are no such special restrictions in the Catskills, only those which apply to the Wilderness, Wild Forest, and Forest Preserve classifications. The special areas laid out in Section 190 do indicate many special restrictions, but I didin't see any citations relating to group size.
I looked also for, and did not see a reference to the restriction you mentioned in an earlier post. I'm not being argumentative, on the contrary, I'm just trying to learn more. You seem to know this stuff better than I.
Thanks,
Tom
P.S. to Patrick: Sorry I refferred to you as "Pam" before.

Grumpy
01-22-2004, 08:24 AM
Tom -

Check that link again, and scroll to Part 190.13 for special regulations pertaining to the High Peaks.

I would assume (never a very safe thing to do, I realize) that absent day use group size restrictions set out in the regs for areas beyond the High Peaks wilderness zones, there are no such restrictions. Of course, if you ask a DEC official you may get some guidance or an advisory or a strong suggestion as to group size, but I'm not sure that would be "binding."

G.

Rick
01-22-2004, 09:00 AM
I would recommend Good Luck Mountain and Spectacle Lake on Route 10 just N of the intersection with Rte 29A. (South of Speculator.

there is a nice 600' or so mountain to climb with incredible views. you can then hike to the lake - about 3 miles or so R/T.

I have taken groups in here several times. I always see folks with dogs as well, though I don't know what the rules are.
It is a rural sort of place, not near any towns nor is it a place that draws huge crowds of folks other than local folks.
good luck (no pun intended)

TomEske
01-22-2004, 09:06 AM
Grump,
Thanks, that was it, Because I'm at (ahem) work, I must be rushing my reading. It's always best to ask someone who knows.
I understand your comment
"Of course, if you ask a DEC official you may get some guidance or an advisory or a strong suggestion as to group size, but I'm not sure that would be "binding." "
This is most certainly true. I've found the Rangers to be most helpful, however, they are responsible for what happens in their territory, and they tend to try to keep a better handle on things than the regs call for. This is not a criticisim, just an observation.
Thanks for increasing my knowledge base,
Tom

ecc
01-22-2004, 08:41 PM
Good Luck Mt. is nice, but there is heavy snowmobile use in that area. Dogs are allowed anywhere in the So. Aks and there is no leash law, though I generally keep mine leashed.
From Schenectady, I would recommend any of the numerous trails off of Rt 8 between Johnsburg and Wells. These are rolling terrain. Some lead to ponds. They vary in length. If you can, check out Barbara McMartin's Guide to the South Eastern Adks.
The trail to Second Pond is short and nice. The trailhead is in Bakers Mills off Rt. 8. I've never run into anyone on that trail. The trail to Cod Pond is also nice, though it's also a snowmobile trail (though not heavily used). It's off Rt. 8 Just east of the Warren County border. The trail to Pine Orchard is really nice. The trailhead is in Wells at Doc Flater's. Those woods are beautiful plus there are huge old growth white pines to be seen.
Another nice one is the Northville-Lake Placid trail from the Benson trailhead. This is more challenging terrain (hills really roll), but beautiful.
I highly recommend McMartin's guide book.
Hope to read your report in the Trail Conditions whichever hike you choose.
ecc

ken
01-24-2004, 04:31 PM
i brought a beginner to the whiteface toll road one winter - was surprised that no one else was there on a saturday, although it did have some previous use with skis & snowshoes, he had a good time there (but we didn't summit) - - - - if you make some calls to find out... in the southern adirondacks, prospect mountain toll road near lake george may be blocked off to prevent snowmobiles from using it? although i'm not sure but they may plow it since there are radio towers near the top - if it has snow and no snowmobiles it may be good for you - prospect mountain road is 5 miles one way and about 1500' of gain.

NYBRAD
01-24-2004, 05:35 PM
You could check out the Great Camp. It's around 5 miles one way though.
It might be a bit far, if you have people who are not in reasonable shape?
But the path is very easy. Very flat.
It's nice to offer a destination to a beginners group. The Great Camp, and all the out buildings you pass along the way, are very interesting. And the views from the Camp, out over the lake, are very nice. To be courteous, stay off the ski tracks when possible, you'll be teaching a little trail etiquette at the same time.
Cheers!

Adk_dib
01-26-2004, 08:01 AM
I have never done it in the winter but I herd that Hadley is a nice snowshoe climb. It is pretty close to you also. It is about a 1200 footer.

sli74
01-26-2004, 10:23 AM
I've done Hadley in the winter and it is indeed a fun snowshoe hike, it is almost always broken out and snowshoes with aggresive crampons will be helpful. I find Hadley easy but my experience is that a beginner in less that good shape will find it more difficult but usually still do-able . . .

sli74

LauraM
01-26-2004, 05:26 PM
I second the recommendation for Camp Santanoni. It would be a great hike in for novices and experienced snowshoers alike. It could handle a big group easily, and there is not only the Great Camp to check out and maybe warm up in, if it is open, but a few pretty lakes to explore, if you want to extend the hike. I have only been there in the fall, but I can imagine that it would be fun in the winter.

Good luck!

Laura