Thoughts on winter food storage...

You're winter camping for 2 nights. There's 2 solid feet of snow on the ground. You've seen fox, rabbit, coyote and squirrel tracks relatively near your campsite (casual wonderings not scoping your site out). There are no camp robbing birds in the area.

DO YOU....

A- Hang a bear bag or use a bear canister

B- Leave you food anywhere

C- Put all food in a snow cubby

D- other (please explain)

I'm looking for some general discussion of what people do and reasoning for it. I personally think it's excessive to hang a bear bag in the winter (when the bears are asleep) although it's not a bad practice. It makes your food hard to get at if you need a mug of hot cocoa before bed. On the WEA trip I just went on we hung bbs every night. My husband has taken two winter NOLS course in which they never hung bear bags (out west).

So, I'm at a loss, what's your opinion?

The little critters will definitely eat their way through barriers if they can; I learned from the thru-hikers to leave my pack open & devoid of food. Hanging the sack somewhere seems the best option.

No bear bags, but I do hang a mouse bag. I always carry the cord-and-upside-down-tuna-can rig in my kitchen bag so that I have it wherever I am. Works.

Rodents are the most likely hazard--hanging a mouse bag as suggested by MT should do. A ratsack is another alternative: http://armoredoutdoorgear.com/ratsack.htm.

A bear cannister will certainly keep the varmints at bay, but is heavy, overkill, and has the risk of freezing shut.

Doug

My brother-in-law and I had a visitor in camp one winter night. It was the first week in February and we were on the MN-ON border trying to camp and ski the length of the (former) Kekekabic Trail, some 38 miles. That winter, there had been no skiing yet in MN south of Duluth, because it had been too warm. The ground was brown when we left the Twin Cities.

Our visitor was just as black as my Newfoundland (who alerted us to his presence) and slightly larger. It was a lot of fun holding the dog while our visitor tested various approaches through the night. We had supped that evening on canned fish . . . in the tent.

Fast forward to '06-'07. See anything familiar in the weather pattern? No, a bear bag would not be overkill for me this winter. And I long ago abandoned eating fish in the tent, in all seasons.

sardog1 said:

We had supped that evening on canned fish . . . in the tent . . . And I long ago abandoned eating fish in the tent, in all seasons.

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Did I mention that I use an old, well and frequently washed tuna can?

You're absolutely right, sardog1, about those wonderful food odors wafting through the night to the particularly sensitive scent receptors of a "friend!"

Food in the Winter

It depends on where I am camping.
In the NorthEast;
at popular camping spots- like any leanto or established camp site I throw up a bear bag. All bets are off- the animals in that area will know about campers food. Mice are usually the biggest threat.

But- if I am camping at large- like out in the middle of no-where-in-particular (my favorite place to camp) I put my food in a bag and hang it off a tree branch to keep the mice from getting at it and me from tripping over the bag when I go out for my midnight wizz. This has worked for me for years and I even do this in the summer. In the winter I only had my food broken into once- and that was at a lean-to ( by a pesky pine-martin). The animals out in no-where-in-particular are not familar with campers habits and food and are fearful of us and the unknown. they usually stay away.

But- if you notice animal tracks (except like rabbit tracks) around your camp site I would definitely throw up a rope. Pine Martins are very good at robbing your food- they are aboreal members of the mustela family (includes skunks, wolverines, badgers, minks, ferrets, otters, weasels- 18 members in North America, though I believe only one aboreal member) and do not hibernate- nesscarily. But I think that animals that go after human food learn to do this from their encounters with other campers, and this is mostly likely to happen at places campers tend to visit repeatedly.

I have also done back country camping in the West (North and South) and I do not bear-bag. But I like my food off of the ground to protect it from rodents and trippage. While camping at Mt. Whitney (not at the camp ground) the greatest danger to food came from ground squirrels and marmets At the higher camp- (Boy Scout Lake?). There were no trees- you had to hang your food from a cliff or bury it in a cairn. In Montana there were mountain goats- but they were more interested in my pee. They would probably chew on anything left around camp that had sweat in it- like socks, shoes, backpacks, etc. They seemed to be most pesky in frequently used areas- like the beautiful lakes that are visited by fisherman and hiker alike.

In fact- I would say that it depends on where you are. You have to know the area, the animals and the dangers they present. Some of our public lands out west are leased out to ranchers and you will find few predators because there are people and dogs quarding the herds (like in Utah- Kings Peak area- I saw as many hikers as sheep herders and sheep dogs. And the sheep out numbered everyone). I bear bagged my food there, but in retrospect I do not know why, except I was unfamilar with the area.

Don't forget that in some areas out West, bear canisters are mandatory. Heavily used parks like Yosemite and Kings Canyon are very vigilant about canisters in some parts of the park. I've taken my canister into Yosemite high country (Badger Pass area) in winter, but I'm not sure it's a requirement where I was. The Rangers can tell you if you call them. Not all canisters or bear bags are approved for park use, so check first before buying something. Canisters can be rented too. In Yosemite, I think $5 will get you a canister for your whole trip.

One thing to remember-don't leave food in the car at the trailhead in bear country. I've seen pictures of cars with the windows smashed out by bears looking for whatever people left in their car that smelled like food.

TomD said:

One thing to remember-don't leave food in the car at the trailhead in bear country. I've seen pictures of cars with the windows smashed out by bears looking for whatever people left in their car that smelled like food.

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Also don't leave anything that remotely looks like food anywhere visible within the car. Bears also know what food and food containers look like too.

Doug

Ditto on Woodstrider. In popular areas, I would always hang.
I have had problems with Pine Martens getting into food bags over the years. In fact, I learned to hang a bear bag closer to the ground in the winter than closer to the branch that the rope is suspended over, simply because:
A I don't have to worry about bears in the middle of winter so 8 feet of the ground I think is plenty.
B - I have watched the Pine Martens scurry over the branches as they make off with plastic sandwich bags of food from my food bag. (Grrrr...) that I have hung a foot or two form the branch.

I also had a problem with raccoons getting into my pack one winter (Leaning against a tree overnight) - 2 were in there presumable looking for food - I had no clue what was in my pack at first, only that it kept "bulging around from the inside" as I shined my headlamp on it. It finally fell over and one fat raccoon waddled out - several seconds later, another fat coon waddled out. It was pretty amusing. Fortunately they did no damage.

For areas that had no camping activity and plenty of snow, I would just bring the foodbag into my tent.

I've been sleeping with my food in the winter for years all over the NE, and all over the world as a member of a cold weather/mountain military unit. This includes tents, snow caves, and lentos. I like to eat and drink during the night, to fuel our internal stove. I usually use the food bag as a pillow, so anything that wants my food will most likely wake me and have to fight me for it.
When I LEAVE camp, my food comes with me! Once at Marcy Dam I opened the vestibule to investigate a scraping sound and came face to face with a marten. He quickly took off. Another time, we awoke to find coyote tracks circling our tent but never knew they came by. In lentos, mice can be a problem, running over and around, and sometimes "in" your sleeping bag. Doesn't bother me much, but my wife hates it.

It's important not to leave any food in your pack! I've seen many holes chewed though hikers $350.00 packs. When your not “IN” your tent or lento, hang or keep a close eye on the food bag.
My ice climbing partner once forgot about a bag of nuts in his $500.00 tent at the Chapel Pond camping area . We returned from climbing to find a mouse still inside going insane trying to get out! Seems he couldn’t find the hole he chewed to get out. At least he didn’t chew another one to get out!

The worst rodent problem I ever encountered was 2 nights “inside” the Lake Colden Outpost. Myself and the care taker Mike and his dog “Onch“, waited out a 2 day snow storm and the mice were unbelievable! There must have been hundreds!

If you don’t have your food near you, hang it.

Rick said:

For areas that had no camping activity and plenty of snow, I would just bring the foodbag into my tent.

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Funny, that never even occured to me! It's been drilled in as an absolute "never do". It makes perfect sense for winter though.

My thinking for winter camping (not estabilshed site) has been to dig out a "kitchen counter" with a large cubby down by your feet. Put all the food inside and then plug up the hole with a big snow block. This is what I have done previously, never with any problems. It's almost easier in the summer when proper food storage is so cut and dry (hang or canister it).

Ursacks are great for winter camping. Fill them up and tie them to a tree or stump to keep them from being carried off by a raccoon. They won't stop a bear, but will work fine for winter critters.

Mark said:

Ursacks are great for winter camping. Fill them up and tie them to a tree or stump to keep them from being carried off by a raccoon. They won't stop a bear, but will work fine for winter critters.

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I ditto what Mark said . . . I use my Ursack in the winter and this prvents having to hang a bear bag and still keep smaller animals out.

sli74

Winter Food

Three things--

Yeah- when base camping at a place like Lake Colden I would , like NYBrad, also take my entire cache of food with me- better safe then sorry.

Bear Fact-they do not hibernate all through the winter and will get up, especially in a warm snap. PS- ravenishly hungry when they wake up.

I can tell from some of the comments that some people do not know how to bear bag their food properly....

But, that said, I think it is almost impossible to find a tree where one can hang one's food and be the requiste number of feet above the ground and away from branches and the trunk of the tree. I saw one group who hung their food reasonably well, yet it seemed to escape their logic that there was a huge leaner under the branch and the bear (being no so dumb) stood on the leaner and ate all their food.

Story (yet true)- one fall in the 5 ponds area of the Adirondacks I had gotten the rope over a pretty good branch in a huge Hemlock tree. But I was uncertain, so I decided to set up my tent under the branch- as a guard. During the night- something woke me up and as I started to get up and get out the flashlight I heard the hurried sounds of a large animal sliding down my tree and hitting the ground with a thud! I stuck my head out of my tent just in time to see the retreating hinny of a mid-sized bear run past the head of my friend (sleeping in his bivy) and disappear into the woods. PS- my friend never heard a thing. I don't know whether to envy his ability to sleep thru anything or be irritated that he will sleep thru anything. I wake up if a mouse walks by.

woodstrider said:

....I can tell from some of the comments that some people do not know how to bear bag their food properly.....

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Ouch. Enlighten us .....

Rick said:

Ouch. Enlighten us .....

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That's what I was thinking...