Recent Mountain Lion Sightings

Don't put any trust in the media.
I think it will be more luck than effort to see one of these cats. However I have one of those DEC forms in my day pack. Take it slow. Chris

Oh?

Wämp said:

Don't put any trust in the media.

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Not to be argumentative, but do you think the rumor mill or "grapevine" is more reliable than "the media?"

For what it's worth, my own experience tells me to be skeptical of everything and every source. Still, and again because of experience, I'm inclined to put a whole lot more faith in "the media" than in the rumor mill. That comes from having spent a pretty good number of years working as a journalist.

Rumors often provide me leads and turn out to bear a kernel of truth. But in the end, the actual story all too often bears little relationship or resemblance to the rumor that has grown from that kernel of truth.

Fact is, people commonly make up things to fill gaps in a story or to support their own perceptions of the truth or reality, or sometimes just for fun, and those speculations or fabrications get passed on as facts within a couple of retellings.

G.

Re: where's the evidence?

funkyfreddy said:

Maybe one of us with time to pursue this matter might want to contact the DEC and ask if it's possible to examine the reports.

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Since I work in Albany, I called the DEC here and didn't get much info. Then I called the DEC in Avon since the Cougar Sighting form is theirs. Each person I spoke to insisted that while there may be illegal pets that got loose, there is no viable breeding population of cougars in our area. I was referred to the following web site where we can see what sightings have been reported http://www.easterncougarnet.org/northeast.htm. You can click on the individual dots to see the details of the sightings.

I also mentioned to the DEC people that I spoke to that some people feel DEC knows these animals (cougars and wolves) exist in our area but won't acknowledge it because then they have a responsiblity to monitor and manage the animals. I'm comfortable that that is not the case.

There have been a few reports in the media about Cougars, but most sightings are by locals who dont bother to report it. If a sighting is reported, the DEC will most likely deny it, which will prevent the media from publishing it in most cases.
About two years ago someone out in Delaware County (Western Catskills) had to shoot a Cougar because it kept killing his livestock. This was in an article in the Oneonta Daily Star.

The DEC likes to say that maybe they are someones pet that got loose. If this was the case, there would be many more sightings, and they wouldnt be as elusive and wild because they had been living in a house with people and food that is given to them.

I can believe that plenty of sightings go unreported and that's unfortunate, but if the DEC wants to deny it, they would be contradicting themselves because the New York State sightings reported and confirmed are by DEC employees themselves.

How they got here and whether they are breeding is a different question. I think DEC wants more evidence of that before they confirm an ongoing cougar population here.

Mink 319, is there any chance that you know of a link where we can read the article you referred to? It would be interesting to find out more information about this case.

"Scuttle But" is as suspect as any other source.
There are few if any knowns.
I trust my instinct as much as just about any thing, short of a given.
One given is media are in it for the money. No offence intended, I do not begrudge any one a living. It could go any way with a cat or a cop shooting. Thanks for the perspective. Chris

Re: Oh?

Grumpy said:

For what it's worth, my own experience tells me to be skeptical of everything and every source.......
Fact is, people commonly make up things to fill gaps in a story or to support their own perceptions of the truth or reality, or sometimes just for fun, and those speculations or fabrications get passed on as facts within a couple of retellings.

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Excellent, very well said and could be applied to almost any subject! People love to tell stories for all sorts of reasons, sometimes just to feel important. Most of the time this tends to muddy the waters, making it difficult to find the truth.

All too true! My eyes have been playing tricks on me for years. I have to check even my self. Chris

Lots of links!

Started to surf the web during the snowstorm and came across many references to mountain lions and recent sightings. I tried to confine it to east coast sightings but included the Iowa articles since it appears that cougars are making a big comeback there and in the Midwest. There also seems to be a bit of Pennsylvania sightings close to the Catskills.

I have to say I was amazed at the # of hits I got before my computer crashed. There's some wacko stuff in here as well but I'll leave that for you to decide. Some of the articles gave me a few chuckles and some ideas as well. OK, here we go - I hope you have lots of spare time!

http://www.thelandmark.com/story.php3?story=6321

http://www.biggamehunt.net/sections/Iowa/Mountain_Lions_in_Iowa_01230411.html

http://www.press-citizen.com/sports/wilkinsoncolumns/011504wilkinson.htm

http://www.umich.edu/~esupdate/marapr2002/johnson.htm

http://mailman.efn.org/pipermail/skeptix/Week-of-Mon-20030616/001425.html

http://www.interl.net/~starcave/News02.html

http://www.pressrepublican.com/outdoors/lib/2003/04272003out1.htm

http://pets.surfwax.com/files/Eastern_Cougar.html

http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/04_03/04_16_03/mtn_voices.html

http://www.cqservices.com/MyCQ/News/Default.asp?V=2558

http://www.northernskynews.com/backissue pages/TrackingtheCats.html

http://aginfo.psu.edu/News/January04/mountainlions.html

http://www.thedailystar.com/sports/2001/05/18/spbrockway.html

http://www.paatving.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=6935

http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/c_mlion.htm

http://www.pressrepublican.com/outdoors/lib/2003/12282003out2.htm

http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/mammals/felidae/Puma_concolor.html

http://www.seacoastonline.com/2000news/1_10_sb2.htm

http://millersriver.mossbrook.com/board/

http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/carch01.htm

http://www.chattoogariver.org/Articles/2002S/Cougar.htm

http://www.lorencoleman.com/loren_coleman_1.html

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/news.htm

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=5519304&BRD=1655&PAG=461&dept_id=13091&rfi=6

http://www.beastinthegarden.com/

An embellishment I think.......

mink319 said:

I just heard from a friend that south of Rochester a farmer was complaining about a Cougar killing his sheep. He complained to the DEC, and they said there are no Cougars here. So to prove them wrong the guy shot it. After he shot it he noticed that on its ear it had a small tag that said NYS DEC. It was tagged by the DEC. He called them up and told them, and they wanted to fine him and wouldnt say anything about the tag.
If this is true, which I think believe it is because I heard it from a reliable source, it proves that the DEC either released Cougars or has tagged ones that returned.

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I think I've heard this one.

I live in a southern suburb of Rochester. There is a fairly well known "cat" near hear, It even makes a few of the smaller town weekly newpapers every once in awhile. There are enough sightings of it that even the local officials do acknowledge its presence in the articles. Its generally beleived to be either a large bobcat, lynx or escaped/released panther (bobcat is my guess) and not a wild native specimin. No photos or real hard evidence that I've heard off, just a bunch of sightings, particularly by local farmers.

This story sounds like an embellishment of this cat. The real story (assuming this is one and the same) is much less exciting, so using Grumpy's logic, it would certainly make a better story to "add" a few extra details. It a large cat (read panther), seen by many local farmers (read shot and killed) and locally acknowledged to be there by town officials (explaining the DEC tag in the ear from the story). The story if true, would certainly have generated a major story in the larger media outlets of the Rochester region.

fwiw - This area, even though it's within 25 miles of a major metropolitan area and in a county that has over 750,000 people in it, would support an animal like this. Lots of woodland and farming land that is plump with not only deer but other tasty small critters to eat. No need to even bother with domestic stuff, like sheep.

mavs00, I definitely agree with you that the Rochester story is hard to believe because of the large city, and the abundant farms. I dont think western NY could have Cougars, but if one ever strayed that way it would probably go the wetlands near the Finger Lakes, not the vicinity of Rochester.

Now, I definitely think that there are some Cougars or Lynx in the Catskills and ADK's. Its reasonable because there is plenty of rugged, wild land, with enough game to support a VERY SMALL population.

Now one of those links said something about wolves. Wolves like to wander, and if they wander in from Canada, and they see that what used to be farms in many areas is now mixed woods with abundant game (many areas near the Canadian border used to be farms and now are growing back to woods). If they wander even farther south they could end up in places like Maine, northern NH, VT, and the Catskills, ADK's, and even other places for a short time like the Taconics and Helderbergs. In some of those areas there is lots of wild rugged land with enough game for a really small pack, maybe.

Just think about, say I am in the Catskills in Slide Mtn Wilderness, 48,000 acres, with a large area with no trails, just mountains, spruce thickets, ledges, cliffs, and streams. The only person to ever come through here is the occasional bushwacker or Bear hunter. When they are crashing they are crashing through the spruce thickets the animals can here you a long ways off, and have enough time to run and never be seen. What I am saying is that just because something is there, doesnt mean you are going to see it.

"The Beast In the Garden" by David Baron

Like Tim (mavs00) says this is a real good book and required reading for anyone interested in mountain lions. I got it based on his recommendation and I'm about half way through it.

Fascinating read, thank you Tim for making us aware of it.

http://www.beastinthegarden.com/

EDIT - Just finished it! I can't recommend it too highly, couldn't put it down.....would love to discuss it with other readers.

Thanks, am making a note. Chris

Thanks for the book, I think I will read that next.

Been adding links.....

Just wanted to give everyone a heads up that I've been adding links to my "lots of links" post as I find more. I hope some of you get a chance to search through them as there's lot of good stuff there.

i disagree with you mink on the idea that DEC is covering up cougar sightings, th eonly 4 probably sightings in the state on that site are by DEC personel , two of whom I know. they didn't go about their day they filed a report on thier findings, I wouldn't call that a cover up. If the four DEC people did not report the mtn lion tracks, hair, kills, sightings or they sis but were told to retract it, then I'd agree they are covering it up.

quick question? I have never heard of any sightings ont eh blue mtn road and my brother lives there and hunts/traps there still. he never heard of any sightings either, where were those reported? trail logs or papers....??

thanks.

edit: speaking of books, anyone read that book on crossing the US by boat , dang can't think of his name, Least Moon maybe, william least moon? he wrote that one about blue highways I think too, where he crosses the us by following the secondary or blue roads ont eh maps.

anyway they went up the hudson and out the erie canal on their way across the USA by boat, and somewhere around schnectady? maybe, bt near a big city and on the canal they round a bend and there is a mtn lion drinking from teh river, it took off as soon as it saw them.

I think the book's name is water horse or something I'm sorry it's back hjome in my room, I'll look for it when I go home this weekend.
Jj

Here is a link to the book mentioned;

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2UOXNY4W67&isbn=0140298606&itm=5

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys.

They are here

They definitely are here. I live in Schoharie, NY & have seen tracks right along the Schoharie Creek. A friend of mine told me today that up around the Armlin Hill area there were sightings of deer carcassas in trees. I saw tracks of 1 that had a stride the length of mine almost. As I do a lot of hiking around here I wonder what the chances are of being attacked by 1. I don't carry a gun so any ideas of what I should do IF 1 ever crosses my path? I know they're rare but it only takes 1. Am I being paranoid?

consider the ramifications

Please do not push the government into acknowledging mountain lions!!! Consider the results. Nothing good could come of it. If they are here, then they are making a comeback without the meddling of bureacrats. Lets leave well enough alone. If the government is forced into conceeding existance of a population, s*&t will surely hit the fan. Would we be kicked out of the forest? Trails closed? Hunting dear banned?
We can talk about them and share pictures, which I enjoy. Even a carcass can be explained away as a pet. But why do we need them officially recognized? What might be gained? What might be lost?