Recent Mountain Lion Sightings

Trust me I have no use 4 the beauricratic eejits 'round here & I'm not looking 2 report anything. I'm just trying 2 find out what I need 2 know about what 2 do if I come across 1 of these things in the woods. I spend time walking along the river or climbing the hills 'round here at least 3 times each week, more when the weather cooperates. I don't carry a gun & am not a killer but how do I defend myself? I wonder if pepper spray would deter 1 of those things. They say if U C a bear play dead. What do U do around a Cougar?

There has been talk, AGAIN, of re-introducing the Wolfe around here again. This is not something I want 2 C but we R over run with deer 2 the point where their beginning 2 starve. They're like rodents 'round here & their only natural predetor is the hunter but fewer people R hunting these days so there's nothing but coyotes 2 keep them in check. I think bringing in wolves is pretty extreme & a huge mistake.

During June 2002 I was leading a Girl Scout hike on a section of the AT from northern CT to southern MA, about 20 miles or so. I forget now exactly where on that section we were, but I remember that as we hiked through a huge rhododendron patch, I felt very distinctly like I was being watched. I looked all around but saw nothing. Some of the girls I was leading saw a cave and wanted to run over and explore it. I very firmly said no, saying that something might be living in there and besides, we have to stay on the trail (leave no trace!). That night as we camped at Sages Ravine, we spoke with the campsite caretaker/ridgerunner and he revealed to me that during the two weeks preceeding he had heard of three different sitings of a mountain lion near that rhododendron patch, and so earlier that afternoon, he had hiked to it and had sat in the same place for four hours until he finally saw it go right into the cave we had passed earlier that day! Now, even though he said it was a mountian lion, I have no idea what kind of expert he was (or wasn't), but I thought you all might like to hear about this experience anyway. I will say that even though I cannot verify the fact that it was a mountian lion watching me as I hiked through that area, I KNOW that something (an animal) was watching me.

I've felt that feeling B4 as well. It's wierd but somehow U just know. I realize that they R probably very afraid of us but rabbies is a big problem 'round here. I was once chased & cornered by a sick porcupine so I know that when animals R sick they act differently. I have actually been attacked by deer on more than 1 occassion. I know that sounds wierd but if U get 2 close 2 their babies the does will rear up on their hinds like stallions & charge. The bucks R very territorial during rut & if U get into their turf they will square U off & stomp & snort & act very intimidating. If U don't leave they will come after U. But they're fairly docile & I haven't really been hurt by 1 yet. If U back off so will they but what about a Mt. Lion? If they're rabbid or maybe just hungry I'm wondering if they will attack. If so I'm just trying 2 find out what 2 do. I wonder if pepper spray will stop 1? I do a lot of wildlife photography & consiquently try 2 get fairly close 2 animals. I'd never shoot nor harm 1, I just want some pictures but most of the animals I've seen don't speak English & they just don't understand that I would never hurt them.

Turd,
Pepper spray might stop the Lion, but most likely you would not be able to get to it, before the lion pounces on you, and sinks it's teeth into the back of your skull. Lions stalk and are very good at it. Pepper spray works if the target is close and if the wind is in the right direction. I wouldn't want the wind blowing the peper spray in my face, then You can't see and are even an easier target for the lion. You say you are in deer country, then don't worry about the Mt. lion because a deer is easier to kill then you are, and most lions attack humans when they are starving.

Good Mt Lion book: Beast In The Garden by David Barron

This is an interesting thread, so I'll add my thoughts. I've done lynx survey work in Maine and seen some very large lynx tracks. I've seen even larger tracks on the border with Quebec at the very top of the state. I've seen lynx running across the road at night, and they can look very large. I also had my own "I thought I saw one" mountain lion sighting on Chamberlain Lake in northern Maine about 10 years ago. We stared at it for a good three minutes and still couldn't figure out if it was a mountain lion or something else.

The fish and wildlife agencies in these states aren't trying to cover anything up - but as good scientists answerable to the research community, they have not been able to scientifically verify a viable population in any of these areas. A viable population would be a group of animals that is breeding and sustaining itself on its own. In the more human-populated areas (such as the Cape Elizabeth sighting in Maine), cougar sightings could be escaped pets (you'd be surprised how many people illegally keep large carnivores as pets). There are other sightings by rangers, hunters, etc. that may be more believeable, but while we can't discount them, we can't scientifically verify them either. I have a degree in wildlife biology and have worked in the woods of Maine, the Adirondacks and New Hampshire for eight years, and although I know the land I work inside and out, and I've seen a lot of wildlife out there, when it comes to mountain lions, I've never been confident in what I saw, either the animal or the tracks. I think that would require a mountain lion expert who has studied them.

It's fun to entertain the possibility that they might be out there, but if they are, they may likely not be a natural population. We just don't know right now. In the meantime, keep looking, and if it turns out to be a lynx or bobcat, that's a great thing to see too!

Ripple,

Well, I s'pose that's a comforting thought 'bout the deer but my concern is a rabbid animal. We do have a rabbies problem here. These things R extremely rare 'round here so I'm hoping this 1's just passin' through.

Umsaskis,

I hear what U'r sayin' & want 2 agree but a friend of mine said, (& I know that people will say the darndest things), they actually saw 2 deer carcasses up in trees. Now IF that's true then what other animal could do that? I want 2 C pictures of that. I guess I'm being paranoid but I did C these large tracks with a stride almost as long as mine. Whatever it is it's a big'n! I'd like 2 subscribe 2 what U'r sayin' as, although I'd really like 2 add pics of a cougar 2 my collection I don't relish the thought of gettin close 2 1. I know they don't live here but I suppose 1 could B passin' through. Bear don't live here either but I have C'n a couple around here over the years as well as a rare moose so I suppose a Mt. Lion COULD B passin' through. I don't think it's impossible. I just don't know & unless I C 1 first hand, or pictures of 1 then I just don't know. I just know somethin big was walking in the snow by the river & when I look at different tracks the mountain lion's tracks look like what I saw, then again I am no expert.

More info on Lions in the Northeast

Thought I’d wade into this a little. Back in the 70’s I was a forest Ranger working West of Baxter State Park. I got to know the local Game warden and one time while I was visiting him he told me that there were a few Mountain Lions in Maine and he knew of one in his area. That was in the 70’s. One of the other posts showed this link.
http://www.northernskynews.com/backissue pages/TrackingtheCats.html

that also shows a confirmed sighting of two lions a lot further South near Augusta.


This link has stories of all attacks in the US and Canada from 2001 until now.
http://www.cougarinfo.com/attacks3.htm

While most of the attacks are in the far West they are not all there.

It would be wise in my opinion if people paid attention when they were in remote areas and stay attuned to what’s around them especially when they are hiking alone. The following site is the best I have seen in regards to identification on lion tracks. Many sites I have seen do a very poor job of pointing out specific key identifiers.

http://www.bear-tracker.com/caninevsfeline.html

While no one has been attacked in the Northeast or on the AT to date if populations of cats continue to push this way it may happen. People in other posts here have debated how valid unsubstantiated sights are, but I would say that while many are not true sights a small percentage very well could be real sightings. That said I give you these reports.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04151/324253.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-30-mountain-lions_x.htm

Turd, check your tracks out in detail the next time you see them. Do they have toenail marks? If so they are not a cat. Can you definitely see paw pads? How big are the toe pads compared to the heel pad? Are the pads on the hind print slightly offset, not entirely symmetrical? That would indicate a cat. Bear have big prints too, and a large stride, but the heel pad is considerably bigger than the toe pads, and the whole print is shaped differently from a cat - and there are bears in the Catskills, so it wouldn't be surprising to have them in Schoharie. You might find it interesting to pick up a tracking guide to take with you in your wanderings. (If you are familiar with tracks, then forgive me for all this extra info.)

By the way, don't play dead if you see a bear. 99.9% of the time if you see a bear in the northeast you are looking at its backside as it runs away from you, and since that's a less common sighting compared to other animals, you might want to stand and look at it. If you have a bear walking toward you, you need to walk away from it. It may be curious, or it may have young nearby, and you simply want to make it feel safe. If the extremely unusual occurs, and the bear decides to attack, you need to fight for your life. Black bears do not respond the same as grizzlies, so fighting or running to safety (not always a tree!) is probably your best chance.

Well right off, yes, it did have toenail marks. It also had pads on it's feet. It had been flurrying a bit so there was just a little snow in them so seeing the intricate details was difficult but I'm sure there were toenail marks. It was definitely not a bear that I'm sure of. The prints were in a straight & deliberate line & were about as far apart as a small person's. I always thought that cats had nails. I know they keep them retracted but wouldn't walking make them come out a bit?

So if not a Mt. Lion nor bear then what else could it have been? Could it B a big bob cat or may a lynx? It's feet sure did look like a cat's feet but I'm not real professed at tracks. Since I saw these tracks I have picked up a small guide of prints. I've learned some things.

Cat tracks & what they look like.

The only time you will see cat tracks with toe nails is when they are running or jumping. Also if you notice the rear pad will have three rounded areas on the rear of the pad. If your tracks had toe nails and if the tracks did not look a long ways apart then I would not say it was a cat track. Without seeing them it would be very hard to tell you what they were.

You should check out this site.

http://www.bear-tracker.com/caninevsfeline.html

Turd, without looking at the tracks, I'd say most likely they came from a canid. Cat and canine tracks do have a lot of similar characteristics, more with each other than with any other animal, and especially if you aren't versed in tracks. It could have been a coyote, or even possibly (sorry if this bursts your bubble ) a large local dog. Domestic dogs get a lot bigger than most coyotes, and rural dogs often wander far from home.

Even if it were a cat, most likely it would not be a lynx. In the northeast lynx seem to require a certain level of mid-aged spruce/fir habitat, which probably wouldn't be found on the Schoharie River (? if that's the river you're talking about) and not to any great extent in the Catskills except small patches at the tops of some mountains and in the Balsam Cap/Rocky etc. area. Probably the only cat you are really likely to see down there is a bobcat.

By the way, right now is a great time for studying tracks (at least up here in NH) because the snow is warm and soft during the day so it creates a real detailed print that isn't blurred by fluffy snow, and as long as it doesn't get so warm that the tracks melt out, they often freeze up in the evening and hold their shape pretty well. Have at it!

I saw one in Rangeley a year ago last fall - a big black brute - couldn't have been anything except a mountain lion.
Most of the lion sightings in Maine are poo-pooed so that the environmentalists don't come in to stop the logging cause it would endanger the poor kitty!

You saw a black Mt Lion?

ripple said:

You saw a black Mt Lion?

Click to expand...

Hey, why not? If there are pink elephants in Alaska why not black panthers in Maine? Perhaps it wandered up from Costa Rica and hooked up with Elvis along the way......

Don't know about pink elephants, but I did see a black (or mostly black) lynx in Alaska. A black mountain lion seems possible to me.

afka_bob said:

A black mountain lion seems possible to me.

Click to expand...

Perhaps it fell into an oil well in the ADK's on it's way up from Central America........

I guess anything is possible, isn't it? But is it probable? If black mountain lions were known why aren't they mentioned in reports from California, Colorado, and Montana where there are large and monitored populations?

...or was scarred when it flew through the unsightly rotors of wind-turbines as it flew up the coast...

a black mt lion in Rangeley - yes, it was black or very very dark drown, I talked with a Warden up there and he had "off the record" heard of several similiar sightings

Not sure what the stats are on pink elephant sightings in Alaska, but of the 615 eastern cougar sightings collected by Jon and Linda Lutz, of the Eastern Puma Research Network, from 1983 to 1989, 37% of the reports involved "black felines". "Black" cougar sightings are in fact fairly common. I recall that about a year ago on discussion board that no longer exists, there was a sighting of a "Large Black cat" posted by a woman near Stone Ridge in the Catskills, she'd never even heard the rumors of mountian lions in the Catskills, she was freaked.....check this URL for a page about "Black cougars"


http://www.bigcats.org/abc/catspecies/blackpumas.html