Let's Discuss Traction Aids

We're splitting hairs, but here goes: Dry Tooling (upper case) has become a sport in it's own right. dry tooling (lower case) is a component of mixed climbing and can be used in and of itself in certain hiking situations. How's that ?

TEO said:

That's what I was thinking when I used them for the first time--if your French technique was good, you could use them in a lot of places, as long as you felt the attachment system was secure and trustworthy enough.
Today 02:05 PM

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You just need super flexible ankles, is all.

Chip said:

We're splitting hairs, but here goes: Dry Tooling (upper case) has become a sport in it's own right. dry tooling (lower case) is a component of mixed climbing and can be used in and of itself in certain hiking situations. How's that ?

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Looks like the same thing to me--rock moves using ice tools. The moves are the same whether it is a short section of rock or a long section.

Now if you want some real fun, some British climbers used ice tools and (rather insecure) ice screws to climb their famous chalk cliffs...


Re French Technique:

You just need super flexible ankles, is all.

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Flexible (ie leather) boots also help--this modern plastic crap )) makes it much harder... Loose knees help too. Experts can use french technique on up to 70 degree ice in good conditions.

Doug

DougPaul said:

This is, of course, highly dependent on what kind of trips you like to do. More above timberline and steeper routes (eg Great Gully) would tend to require more crampon use.

Also some years have little snow leaving lots of icy trails (or you get rain followed by cold cycles) and some other years have a lot of snow.

And the same trail can change radically: I have hiked Chocorua when you needed crampons just to get out of the parking lot* (and every step of the way up); at other times snowshoes could be required for virtually the entire way.

* A rainstorm/melt had flooded the parking lot which then froze into a skating rink... This also made the trail very icy/frozen snow.

Doug

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I agree, conditions change day to day, year to year & state by state.

My personal preference is not to add any more weight to my feet unless i need it. On the most popular trails when hard packed, they support me, I'll carry my snowshoes. As those trails get steeper & may come out above treeline, I opt for crampons which I'd likely need above the trees, no need switching to snowshoes at say 3500 feet & then crampons at treeline.

The 99-00 winter started late for snow, I got several hundred feet up on Osseo before seeing any snow on 1/2/00. A couple of years ago, right after Christmas, Sawyer River Road was open.

Some trails south of the Whites get less snow, & in some cases more traffic. Not sure I've ever seen snowshoes on Monadnock, prorbonly for people taking the more scenic trails but not the main two from Park HQ or half-way house. I believe the 94-95 winter in CT had very little snow, I did several AT day hikes late in the season with barely any ice or snow.

Still should bring the gear when up North.

Tom,

I'll be looking for a sunrise trip on a Friday in early December, something quick & not too hard. At this point, leaning towards Westkill, Twin or Slide. have to be at work in CT around 12:00.

Since I'm lookiing at about 3 hours of hiking for this trip, if a lot of snow & ice, I'llopt for MA AT.

in my experience microspikes are best for the shoulder seasons (like right now) when you may need traction, but there is not enough continuous snow cover to use snowshoes. they grip well on all but real hard or steep ice and also work well on bare rock, dirt, etc. in between icy/snowy sections (hillsounds do pretty much the same thing). i've now fully retired my stabilicers and just go with the spikes. once there is full snowcover the microspikes go in the closet for the winter and i will wear snowshoes the majority of the time carrying crampons on trips where they may be necessary or make for safer walking.

bryan

i am obsessed with my microspikes.
that said, i own a pair of yaktrax "sport" or "pro" model or something like that, which i wear running in boston on snowy days. they're actually really good for that. it's basically a regular yaktrax but with a strap. not exactly something to conquer everest in, but good for running.

Has anyone here tried the newest release from Yaktrax, the EXTREME?

You can make fun of Yak Trax if you want; but I find they are just the thing for fall and spring conditions where there are patches of ice between rock and bare ground. Microspikes will quickly get worn down under those conditions unless you have the patience to keep taking them off and putting them back on again.

Obviously the Yak Trax "Walker" version is not intended for hiking. I find the "Pro" version works fine. Haven't tried the new "Extreme" version.

EMS has the Taktrax XTRs for $49.95. The link provides a better picture and shows that there is no connection between the 2 plates on the bottom of the shoe. Makes me wonder how stable they would be....

Also, if you zoom in on the "spikes" they appear to be fairly thin.

They are in the stores, so maybe I'll check them out in person.

Quietman said:

EMS has the Taktrax XTRs for $49.95. The link provides a better picture and shows that there is no connection between the 2 plates on the bottom of the shoe. Makes me wonder how stable they would be....

Also, if you zoom in on the "spikes" they appear to be fairly thin.

They are in the stores, so maybe I'll check them out in person.

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I'll be interested in opinions, as people often as me gear questions. I don't think the two plates need to be connected, as with the Microspikes' design that's not important. If they help keep snow from building, that would be good. I agree that the "spikes" don't seem as beefy as the Microspikes. I do like the grommets that hold the chain to the plastic but haven't heard of the Microspikes failing in that area, so it may not be an important feature.

Now you're talking!

http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3819313

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Check out the reviews!

Little Rickie said:

Now you're talking!

Check out the reviews!

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The only trouble is once you outfit your favorite shoes with these then you need to make something up so you don't shred your snowshoes all to hell.(maybe denali and tubbs plastic shoeswould be ok) Tim Seaver uses a foam spacer in the binding I believe. Just something to think about.

Little Rickie said:

Now you're talking!

Check out the reviews!

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Here, you owe me 20bucks. Heck, I'll split the difference: You only owe me $10.

FARMER said:

The only trouble is once you outfit your favorite shoes with these then you need to make something up so you don't shred your snowshoes all to hell.(maybe denali and tubbs plastic shoeswould be ok) Tim Seaver uses a foam spacer in the binding I believe. Just something to think about.

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I wonder if this method would be a good way to get a little longer life out of boots that have old, worn out tread? (Probably not if the screw wouldn't have enough sole to be mounted on.)

Chip said:

Heck, I'll split the difference: You only owe me $10.

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My screw boots worked very well for me last year, until I had to switch to snow shoes mid hike and didn't have a spacer. But I did have my swiss army knife.

And you can't beat the price I paid for my stabilicer screws!

Quietman said:

And you can't beat the price I paid for my stabilicer screws!

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I love my Stabilicers on mixed rock and ice, but I do hate the way they shed screws. Where did you get them so cheap?

On Madison this past Saturday, I kept the 'icers on for the summit climb, and wished I'd switched to proper 'pons. Hella fun climb though.

Bob Kittredge said:

I love my Stabilicers on mixed rock and ice, but I do hate the way they shed screws. Where did you get them so cheap?

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That looks like an EMS price tag from 1974.

Quietman is a master of the value purchase.

That is the same yellow clearance tag that EMS has used for a really long time. I got two bags last year at this time when they stopped carrying the stabilicers. Gotta love that clearance corner!

Master of value? My kids just think that I'm a cheapskate!

Quietman said:

And you can't beat the price I paid for my stabilicer screws!

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You're telling me! 0.98 cents!? What did they do to give you change, shave off two-hundredths of a penny?

Quietman said:

EMS has the Taktrax XTRs for $49.95. The link provides a better picture and shows that there is no connection between the 2 plates on the bottom of the shoe. Makes me wonder how stable they would be....

Also, if you zoom in on the "spikes" they appear to be fairly thin.

They are in the stores, so maybe I'll check them out in person.

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For what it's worth... I was in the Portland EMS this morning speaking with them amout MicroSpikes vs the YakTrax XTR. The sales person indicated they're getting a lot of the YakTrax returned with the anti-bot looking plate broken and other problems with breakage. He's seen one set of MicroSpikes beought back because the rubber where the chain attaches tore. They're to the point of considering pulling the YakTraks off the shelf.

I've got a new set of MicroSpikes at 20% off.

I just picked up a 2 pack of these "Snow Trax" at Costco for $20. I'm not planning on replacing my crampons or MicroSpikes with them any time soon, but at 2 pair for $20, thought they might be worth trying and carrying as back-up, road runners or loaners. As soon as we get some ice and snow, I'll provide a review.