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Thread: FYI: Northern Pass High Voltage Transmission Project

  1. #46
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    Heres some info on Dickey Lincoln, it predated the web so there isnt as much info out there as some projects. Not mentioned in the test was that it was originally deisnged to support the Richmond Maine nuclear power plant that was never built along with the Wiscasset power plant whihc was built but since decomissioned. The project would run backwards during the night storing water and then would run the hydro during the day when there was a demand. Considering that a 950 MW combined cycle natural gas plant fits on about 10 acres and can be built in about 2 years, I dont see Dickey Lincoln coming back especially since the nature conservancy bought a bunch of the land that would have been inundated.

    Since the 1930s, the Dickey-Lincoln School Dam Project on the St. John has been considered by the US Army Corps of Engineers. The project was authorized by Congress in 1965 and a full proposal was created in 1974. This project would have put in the Dickey Dam and the Lincoln School Dam to provide electricity during peak times. If constructed, the project would have generated over 800 Megawatts and would have provided about 17% of New England's peak energy during the 1980s. Churchill Dam would likely have modified its flow levels and times to maximize energy production at these sites. The project would have inundated about 88,000 acres of land and part of the St. John River. However, the Dickey-Lincoln project was not built because of controversies over energy at the time. The project had to meet new White House water resource policies at the time. Additionally, there was a lot of debate over the economic and environmental costs of the project for just peak energy production. The project concept was deauthorized by Congress in 1986. In addition, considerations for the Furbish Lousewort (Pedicularis furbishiae), an endangered plant, harmed the project. In 1976, Furbish Lousewort was rediscovered along the St. John during survey work for the Environmental Impact Statement for the Dickey-Lincoln Project. The banks of the St. John are still the only place where Furbish Lousewort is found today. The Army Corps worked with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to create a conservation program that would allow the project to continue and allow for protection of Furbish lousewort. The two agencies agreed on a conservation plan that would allow Dickey-Lincoln to still be constructed while protecting the species through research, monitoring, protection of habitat, and establishment of new colonies. The Furbish Lousewort rediscovery is not what halted the project in the 1970s. In fact, the Fish and Wildlife Service stated that they "believe that if the conservation program is followed, it will result in an increase in numbers of the species and increased protection for its habitat." The Dickey-Lincoln project was recently brought under discussion again, but construction is not planned.

  2. #47
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    NH has Lake Umbagog and Moore dam.
    Also 1st and 2nd CT Lakes and Lake Francis

    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Obviously whitewater paddlers are also not a fan of dams as they back up the rivers for miles and flood water falls.
    Actually the typical whitewater paddler loves dams because they provide scheduled water releases, particularly in midsummer. The Deerfield River is about the most choked with dams of anywhere but it supports a thriving rafting industry.

    It used to be that you could tell how long someone had been canoeing by mentioning the Ball Mtn Dam in VT which destroyed a gorge of unusual beauty but provides some of the most popular water releases, but the old-timers are gone now.

  3. #48
    Senior Member el-bagr's Avatar
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    For those interested in the Northern Pass project, and its impacts on the White Mountain National Forest, you can find the USFS's page on the project's anticipated application for a special use permit here:
    http://www.fs.fed.us/nepa/project_co...?project=34752

    There don't seem to be any documents on the site yet, but the Service's schedule of proposed actions suggests that we'll see a notice published in the Federal Register in January 2011. This is consistent with what Northern Pass Transmission, LLC says on its website about the special use permit process ("Northern Pass Transmission, LLC expects to file an application for a Special Use Permit in early 2011.")

  4. #49
    Senior Member LRiz's Avatar
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    Video - Tour of the Northern Pass

    A fascinating look at how this abhorrent powerline project will affect some of our favorite NH mountains, trails, places and views...

    Loon
    Cannon
    South Kinsman
    Moosilauke
    The Appalachian Trail
    The Rocks Estate

    ...to name a few.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Mrlz_AHAI
    Last edited by LRiz; 01-10-2011 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Elaboration

  5. #50
    Senior Member SAR-EMT40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRiz View Post
    A fascinating look at how this abhorrent powerline project will affect some of our favorite NH mountains, trails, places and views...

    Loon
    Cannon
    South Kinsman
    Moosilauke
    The Appalachian Trail
    The Rocks Estate

    ...to name a few.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Mrlz_AHAI
    Sorry, without putting trees there to mitigate what those towers would look like the whole production is very self serving, not visually correct and actually amounts to a lie. I am almost certain that there are some trees in the forest that are 135 feet tall that might help hide this and even if I am standing near one that is thirty feet tall the chances that I will see these towers are virtually zero.

    I may not be for this project but seeing cheesy self serving productions doesn't help the cause. And how does a power transmission line increase light pollution? As far as reducing tourism, I'll still be going.

    Keith
    Last edited by SAR-EMT40; 01-10-2011 at 02:28 PM.
    "The real work of men was hunting meat. The invention of agriculture was a giant step in the wrong direction, leading to serfdom, cities, and empire. From a race of hunters, artists, warriors, and tamers of horses, we degraded ourselves to what we are now: clerks, functionaries, laborers, entertainers, processors of information."- Ed Abbey

  6. #51
    Senior Member el-bagr's Avatar
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    This is an interesting issue. As Google Earth and similar programs become more broadly used, we will see more and more video simulations of what projects might look like. Project developers often generate their own simulations to help convince regulators and the public that their projects' visual impacts are reasonable. Here, they'll be competing for attention with the video linked-to above. I tend to agree that this video had an overt agenda, and might not fully capture what the lines would look like. Still, it makes a strong statement, and visually illustrates the routes these lines might take through the White Mountains.

  7. #52
    Senior Member SAR-EMT40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by el-bagr View Post
    Still, it makes a strong statement, and visually illustrates the routes these lines might take through the White Mountains.
    Not disagreeing with you but that could just as easily and with the same transfer of useful information could have been done on a flat map. Giving it a 3D appearance without rendering everything in 3D including the trees is nothing short of a lie. I will also mention that it appears, I don't intend to watch it again, but it appears as though the vertical axis is exaggerated, also for an effect the creators wanted.

    Again, I am not sure if I am for or against this project yet. I am against people lying to get their way. And just to be perfectly clear I am not accusing el-bagr or LRiz of any type of deception.

    Just my $.02,
    Keith
    "The real work of men was hunting meat. The invention of agriculture was a giant step in the wrong direction, leading to serfdom, cities, and empire. From a race of hunters, artists, warriors, and tamers of horses, we degraded ourselves to what we are now: clerks, functionaries, laborers, entertainers, processors of information."- Ed Abbey

  8. #53
    Senior Member el-bagr's Avatar
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    The Maine Public Broadcasting Network ran an interesting 6-minute story on this project last week, entitled "Northern Pass Project Promises Renewable Power, but at What Cost?"

    http://www.mpbn.net/Home/tabid/36/ct...5/Default.aspx

    The story notes that the Appalachian Mountain Club and the Society for the Protection of New Hampshire Forests have registered their opposition to the project in its current form.

  9. #54
    Senior Member bandana4me's Avatar
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    Union Leader story today

    A story about 1 protester broke today:

    http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...6-bc404c468e13

    I still remember attending meetings back in the 70's to stop the expansions of ski areas and put a stop to Seabrooke. Then it was cell towers. Now it is power lines?? You can fight city hall, but can you win???

    I live less than 2 miles from "The Rocks" and have been attending grass roots meetings to try and figure out how to divert this. Remember though, no one wants it in their"back yard".
    Many receive advice, only the wise profit by it.

  10. #55
    Senior Member dentonfabrics's Avatar
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    NH doesn't need any more power. The lights always go on, so does the TV. And if you had more juice to sell, you wouldn't charge any less for it and don't insult me by asking me to believe that you would. If MA and CT needs more power, then I'm sorry to hear that but you can't expect us to help out at the expense of sacrificing our forests.

    Get out, go home.

  11. #56
    Senior Member smitty77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dentonfabrics View Post
    If MA and CT needs more power, then I'm sorry to hear that but you can't expect us to help out at the expense of sacrificing our forests.

    Get out, go home.
    A rather crass attitude of a resident in a state that relies so heavily it's tourism industry to balance the budget. I am also willing to bet that a large number of us "southerners" support the cause to protect "your" forests at all costs. IMO, you will need support from many people throughout New England to derail this project. You can't expect anyone else to feel sorry for you with that kind of statement.

    But your last sentence sir, is very abrasive. May they run the project right through your front yard. Good day!
    East bound and down, loaded up and truckin', we gonna do what 'They' say can't be done.
    We gotta long way to go, and a short time to get there, I'm east bound just watch ole' Bandit run. - Jerry Reed

  12. #57
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandana4me View Post
    You can fight city hall, but can you win???
    Note that the project proposes new corridors in NH over existing ones in VT because VT regulations are more stringent. All it may take to divert the worst of this is to make NH law the same as VT.

  13. #58
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    The routing of the line through NH entirely in PSNH territory is very important to PSNH. The project is not being funded by ISO New England (I.E. ultimately all the new england ratepayers) rather it is funded by Hydro Quebec and the parent company of PSNH. Therefore they make their money by charging what the market will pay for the electrons that "flow" down the wires (a possible comparison is an interstate highway built by the government with tax dollars versus a toll road built by a private developer). If the lines run through other utility areas, the PSNH/Hydro Quebec group most likely wll need to add other partners which would be a couple of the rural utilities in VT which are probably not set up for a major project such as this and share the profits. According to this map

    http://www.cvps.com/CustomerService/...anchiseMap.pdf

    at least two VT utilities (possibly three) would have to be involved. Vermont also has the "dreaded" act 250 and other regulations that would probably kick in which tend to slow down projects and increase a developers costs. Therefore despite there being an existing Hydro Quebec right of way with existing tall towers running through the northern VT, its to PSNH's advantage to find an alternative through NH.

    Folks may forget that the PNGTS gas line right of way was cut through a similiar area of northern NH about 10 years ago eventually connecting up with the Portland Pipeline right of way in Gorham NH partially as a means of bypassing the existing Portland pipeline right of way through VT and its associated regulatory issues. Granted there werent transmission towers but if you look at Google Earth its quite an obvious run.

    A similiar project partially funded by ISO New England (and all the New England Ratepayers) is currently permitted and commencing construction in Maine

    http://maineinsights.com/perma/maine...ngland-history

    It is running along mostly existing right of ways and is intended predominantly to allow additional power to be exported to southern New England and to allow addtional wind power to be put on line.

  14. #59
    Senior Member Stash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRiz View Post
    A fascinating look at how this abhorrent powerline project will affect some of our favorite NH mountains, trails, places and views...

    Loon
    Cannon
    South Kinsman
    Moosilauke
    The Appalachian Trail
    The Rocks Estate

    ...to name a few.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Mrlz_AHAI
    My reaction tends to be slightly grey with anything with a title of "What xxxxx doesn't want you know/see". Replace xxxxx with "credit card company", "insurance company", "doctor" or anything else. The view is often incomplete at best.
    Stash

    What matters is what I do. Not what they do.

    Hiking Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35709829@N08/

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dentonfabrics View Post
    NH doesn't need any more power. The lights always go on, so does the TV. And if you had more juice to sell, you wouldn't charge any less for it and don't insult me by asking me to believe that you would. If MA and CT needs more power, then I'm sorry to hear that but you can't expect us to help out at the expense of sacrificing our forests.

    Get out, go home.
    I didn't take this as an anti Southern NE rant. More of towards the fat cats that are planning this so they can profit. But I may be wrong?

    Another dumping on the North Country of what no one else wants.

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