LOST HIKER IN Spaulding mountain area maine.

Trail Boss said:

I believe natreb pointed out the chief deficiency of this strategy. It relies on the victim having a functional cell phone...

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Here is what Warren Doyle has to say regarding his training of the victim and overall use of common sense on the trail.

Gist is relying on a cell phone and waiting for help is not a survival strategy. Period. Instead go downslope and downstream.

cb

The map provided appears to indicate that if she had followed the flow of water downstream from her camp, it intersects the AT in probably less than a mile.

Indeed; she stepped off the trail shortly after a notable stream crossing by an old road, and then walked uphill a mile or more looking for cell signal.

I'd heard some vague rumors that Largay had some unusual difficulties, but the link provided by ChrisB is the first time I'd read this:

"Lee disclosed that on several occasions Largay would become disoriented and hike in the wrong direction." While walking on the AT, which is among the broadest, most-used, best-blazed trails in this region?

This reminds me of our perennial discussions about unprepared/under-equipped hikers, currently embodied in the "hiker rescue 9/4 - heading down Huntington Ravine Trail" thread, where the latest entry includes the line: "The Mountain spares most fools." Most of them, most of the time, but not all, and not indefinitely.

nartreb said:

Indeed; she stepped off the trail shortly after a notable stream crossing by an old road, and then walked uphill a mile or more looking for cell signal.

I'd heard some vague rumors that Largay had some unusual difficulties, but the link provided by ChrisB is the first time I'd read this:

"Lee disclosed that on several occasions Largay would become disoriented and hike in the wrong direction." While walking on the AT, which is among the broadest, most-used, best-blazed trails in this region?

This reminds me of our perennial discussions about unprepared/under-equipped hikers, currently embodied in the "hiker rescue 9/4 - heading down Huntington Ravine Trail" thread, where the latest entry includes the line: "The Mountain spares most fools." Most of them, most of the time, but not all, and not indefinitely.

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In light of this information and all the facts that have come out, I'm at a loss on two points. One, I believe she had a Spot device, but left it in the hotel room. Secondly, if it was known how bad she was in regards to keeping and holdings directions, why was she out there alone? Believe me, I'm posting my comments with the clear intent that someone may learn from this event, not to point fingers at anyone. If I had to summarize all the info on this, my take would be, she was not qualified to be a soloist. As a soloist myself, I recognize the implications of soloing. It is a major step up from hiking with other's and opens the door to a host of potential issues. One more point, that guy that gave the training class, I'm not impressed to say the least.

DougPaul said:

None of the above requires GPS. Of course, a SARSAT (via a PLB**) or GPS location could be helpful to searchers. However, as seen in the Matrosova incident, electronic locations are not a guarantee. (Note: her SPOT locator sent several locations with a fairly wide spread. While at least some SPOT devices include GPS, I don't know if all models do and specifically if her device did. GPS receivers also vary in their quality.)
** A PLB also contains a radio beacon which rescuers can home in on from the air or from the ground.

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I remember reading in a Bloomber article tha Matrosova had ACR ResQLink: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-trader-in-the-wild/ I'm not saying here that Spot is flawless, as I have seen my Spot report erroneous locations. In Matrosova's case there was a lot less time for rescuers to save her, so even if they could use advanced features of her PLB it is not clear that the rescue would be successful while if Gerry brought her Spot along the search outcome would most likely be positive.

DougPaul said:

Re: airborne cellular base stations:
Just google "airborne cellular base stations"--it is at least an active area of research.

Although they could be useful for SAR, a much more important use of airborne cellular base stations would be to establish communication in disaster areas where the communication infrastructure has been wiped out. Such specially equipped aircraft might be too rare and too expensive for routine SAR.

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I remember reading some time ago about Facebook and Google planning to use balloons to provide internet access in some areas. I'm guessing that this could be much cheaper than flying Stingrays on a plane. However, as Trail Boss and others rightly point out most phone don't last very long on one battery charge, so by the time such balloons would go up the lost person's phone could very well be dead. I am actually puzzled by this, as I remember my Nokia phone lasting several days on single charge in pre-smartphone days. I'm guessing that smartphones waist a lot of energy on transmitting information that all the apps collect while spying on us. I think today's smartphones are not built with backpackers in mind - otherwise I would expect them to support some ultra power saving mode in which the phone would really shut down all the apps and only listened for incoming calls and text messages. One thing I noticed with my smartphone is that I get a lot better mileage if I turn off mobile data and WiFi.

in reply to Sierra:

Bangor Daily News confirms about the SPOT:

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/10/...-exposure-on-appalachian-trail-autopsy-finds/

On the initial missing persons report that was filed, Largay’s husband itemized a number of items that he knew she’d been wearing or carrying. Under the category labeled “GPS, PLB, Compass” — the acronyms referring to Global Positioning System, Personal Locator Beacon– the responding warden wrote: “SPOT. Left at motel.”

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Here's the relevant part of that report. Note that she did have a compass, but according to the report, didn't know how to use it. http://www.pressherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/897933_170145-compass-with-highlig.jpg
(source: http://www.pressherald.com/2016/05/...achian-trail-didnt-know-how-to-use-a-compass/ )

She'd been hiking with Lee, but Lee quit due to a family emergency. Largay had been hiking solo (with road support from her husband) for almost a month before the incident. With only about 100mi remaining as the crow flies (so I'm guessing under 150 trail miles, so under two weeks at a modest pace), you might say she almost made it.

You can do a lot of things to reduce your battery consumption... http://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/ has some good info for the iPhone. I do many of these things while hiking just in case it becomes a survival situation. I certainly don't need bluetooth or WiFi in the mountains, nor do I want or need to be disturbed except by my favorite contacts.

Tim

iAmKrzys said:

I remember reading in a Bloomber article tha Matrosova had ACR ResQLink: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-trader-in-the-wild/ I'm not saying here that Spot is flawless, as I have seen my Spot report erroneous locations. In Matrosova's case there was a lot less time for rescuers to save her, so even if they could use advanced features of her PLB it is not clear that the rescue would be successful while if Gerry brought her Spot along the search outcome would most likely be positive.

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According to the accident report in Accidents in North American Climbing, 2016, pp 79-80, Matrosova used a Spot to call for help.

Both Matrosova and Largay attempted to obtain aid by electronic means and in both cases it did not result a successful rescue. IMO, a PLB or sat-phone would have had a better chance of obtaining timely help. The report also concludes with a comment to the effect that a partner and/or bivouac gear are will generally contribute more to one's safety than electronics.


GPSes vary significantly in their ability to obtain an accurate location in less than ideal situations. Modern state-of-the-art hiking GPSes do pretty well--the GPS hardware in other devices may or may not work as well.

Doug

I appreciate that this thread continues with its content. I originally was intrigued by the mystery of the story, but have become, as others have, more reflective on what I would do in same situation. I've been hiking for over 40 years, and have certainly had a few 'where the f**k are we' moments (espec bushing it in the ADKs), but they were fleeting in retrospect. Another story if uncertainty persists as with Largay.

From here: http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html

This GPS-encoded position dramatically improves the location accuracy down to the 100-meter level ...

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Repeated here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_radiobeacon_station

The most modern 406 MHz beacons with GPS (US$300+ in 2010) track with a precision of 100 meters in the 70% of the world closest to the equator ...

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PLB's traditionally used two radio frequencies (406 MHz and 121 MHz) to serve as a beacon but were later augmented with GPS. The stated 100 meters is a substantial improvement over the earlier beacons, but considerably less than what a consumer GPS can do (~ 10 meters). I can no longer find the relevant article but, if I remember correctly, when GPS was added to PLB, they had to drop a few digits from the coordinates to fit the coded message into their transmission protocol. Whether that's true or not, SEND devices (like SPOT and InReach) have a tighter "circle of confidence".

Nevertheless, even a "circle of confidence" of 100 meters would've helped the Maine Wardens locate Gerry within 48 hours. Given that her strategy was to hunker down, the next best thing was an old-school smoky signal fire, maintained each and every day until found. One search team passed within 200 feet of her campsite. You can see the rescuer's tracklogs posted here (it's the lower-left image): http://www.star977.com/2015/10/30/w...firmed-skeletal-remains-are-geraldine-largay/

As for the Matrosova incident, whether SPOT or PLB, all electronics have an operating temperature range (SPOT's reported range: -22F to 140F) and, as we all know, battery life is also affected by temperature. You may have power at -30F but the device will fail to work (or work poorly) if the transmitter's components are only rated to -20F. She ventured into extremely hostile conditions that would've easily subjected her beacon to the bottom of its operating range.

Trail Boss said:

From here: http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html

Repeated here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_radiobeacon_station

PLB's traditionally used two radio frequencies (406 MHz and 121 MHz) to serve as a beacon but were later augmented with GPS. The stated 100 meters is a substantial improvement over the earlier beacons, but considerably less than what a consumer GPS can do (~ 10 meters). I can no longer find the relevant article but, if I remember correctly, when GPS was added to PLB, they had to drop a few digits from the coordinates to fit the coded message into their transmission protocol. Whether that's true or not, SEND devices (like SPOT and InReach) have a tighter "circle of confidence".

Nevertheless, even a "circle of confidence" of 100 meters would've helped the Maine Wardens locate Gerry within 48 hours. Given that her strategy was to hunker down, the next best thing was an old-school smoky signal fire, maintained each and every day until found. One search team passed within 200 feet of her campsite. You can see the rescuer's tracklogs posted here (it's the lower-left image): http://www.star977.com/2015/10/30/w...firmed-skeletal-remains-are-geraldine-largay/

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Those circles of confidences refer only to the GPS locations. And, of course, they assume that the internal GPS location is accurate. Once one is within those distances (or within the ~5km SARSAT (without GPS) accuracy), one can acquire and home in on the beacon.

Radio beacons can also be detected at long enough ranges (depends on the local terrain etc--but it could be miles) that a very coarse search can get a quick general location for a victim with a beacon.

As for the Matrosova incident, whether SPOT or PLB, all electronics have an operating temperature range (SPOT's reported range: -22F to 140F) and, as we all know, battery life is also affected by temperature. You may have power at -30F but the device will fail to work (or work poorly) if the transmitter's components are only rated to -20F. She ventured into extremely hostile conditions that would've easily subjected her beacon to the bottom of its operating range.

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The rated temperature range is the range over which the device is guaranteed to work. Devices usually operate over a wider temperature range, perhaps for a shorter period. (For instance, most Canon cameras have a lower operating limit of 32F but many of us have taken pictures with them at much lower temps.) Matrosova's SPOT sent back a number of locations (the first of which was fairly accurate*) indicating that it was operational for some period. SPOT does not have a beacon thus there was nothing for rescuers to home in on.

* Unfortunately, the searchers did not know that it was accurate. Some later locations fell elsewhere which resulted in the initial searches going toward an incorrect location. (When there is a spread of locations, the searchers can only guess as to which, if any, might be accurate and they did not have the manpower to search them all. The accuracy of the locations could only be determined after they found her body.)

Doug

406 MHz beacon -> identify your town
121.5 MHz beacon -> identify your street
GPS coords -> identify your home address

Modern PLBs with GPS effectively make the two beacons superfluous (at least for hiking purposes). The GPS coordinates provide a precise location (well, 100 meters is more like the block you live on and not your home address) that can be located with commonly available GPS receivers.

Homing in on the 121.5 Mhz beacon requires less commonly available equipment (and traditionally used in aerial searches). Ground-based search teams need a portable radio direction finder (RDF).

Does anyone know if SAR organizations (in NH or ME) own and use a portable RDF? Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hammerhead-Direction-Finder-beacons-121-5MHz/dp/B00CMD9856


Like I said in my previous post, operating electronics outside their temperature range can result in failure or "work poorly". If the first reported location was accurate, that's only known in hindsight, because subsequent readings were different and served to cast doubt on the first reading. Long story short, the device was working poorly and effectively directed the rescue team to the wrong "home address".

Moral of the story is that if you're going to venture into extreme conditions, at the limit of human survivability, your gear may be at or beyond its functional limit. Another way to look at it: if you're venturing into conditions outside the operating range of your emergency devices, you might want to rethink that.

Trail Boss said:

406 MHz beacon -> identify your town
121.5 MHz beacon -> identify your street
GPS coords -> identify your home address

Modern PLBs with GPS effectively make the two beacons superfluous (at least for hiking purposes). The GPS coordinates provide a precise location (well, 100 meters is more like the block you live on and not your home address) that can be located with commonly available GPS receivers.

Homing in on the 121.5 Mhz beacon requires less commonly available equipment (and traditionally used in aerial searches). Ground-based search teams need a portable radio direction finder (RDF).

Does anyone know if SAR organizations (in NH or ME) own and use a portable RDF? Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hammerhead-Direction-Finder-beacons-121-5MHz/dp/B00CMD9856


Like I said in my previous post, operating electronics outside their temperature range can result in failure or "work poorly". If the first reported location was accurate, that's only known in hindsight, because subsequent readings were different and served to cast doubt on the first reading. Long story short, the device was working poorly and effectively directed the rescue team to the wrong "home address".

Moral of the story is that if you're going to venture into extreme conditions, at the limit of human survivability, your gear may be at or beyond its functional limit. Another way to look at it: if you're venturing into conditions outside the operating range of your emergency devices, you might want to rethink that.

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Not to impugn your post, your Knowledge of these devices far exceeds mine, not hard ( I've never held a GPS). But the moral of the story in my opinion is this. Modern technology allows for accurate and precise travel and locating options in an emergency situation. That being said, these conveniences are subject to failures of power and or conditions. ALWAYS have a compass and a map, along with the skills to use them as a backup plan, or you will find yourself in the dark ages with some expensive paperweights.

You'll get no argument from me about the limitations of battery-operated devices. My "moral of the story" was for Matrosova's story. Even if her SPOT's battery had sufficient reserves, its components were subjected to the limits of their design envelope.

Food for thought: given the inhuman weather conditions it is believed Matrosova experienced, it would've been nearly impossible to operate the combination of map and compass. Strapping a compass to one's forearm, to minimally tell direction, would've all one could hope for in sub-zero temps and 60+ mph winds. It wasn't just the electronics operating at its design limits, it was the human as well.

Trail Boss said:

You'll get no argument from me about the limitations of battery-operated devices. My "moral of the story" was for Matrosova's story. Even if her SPOT's battery had sufficient reserves, its components were subjected to the limits of their design envelope.

Food for thought: given the inhuman weather conditions it is believed Matrosova experienced, it would've been nearly impossible to operate the combination of map and compass. Strapping a compass to one's forearm, to minimally tell direction, would've all one could hope for in sub-zero temps and 60+ mph winds. It wasn't just the electronics operating at its design limits, it was the human as well.

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In Kate's case, I agree with both your points without argument. On my traverses of the Presidential's, it was my habit to have bail out coordinates for certain key spots. I agree in heavy winds, combined with snow, map reading with any degree of efficiency is pretty much impossible.

Trail Boss said:

406 MHz beacon -> identify your town
121.5 MHz beacon -> identify your street
GPS coords -> identify your home address

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All of the above have hidden assumptions which make them dangerously inaccurate under other circumstances...

A portable radio direction finder (RDF) for either frequency (which need be little more than a radio receiver with a signal strength indicator and/or a directional antenna) can home in on a beacon to within a few steps. Avalanche transceivers are essentially RDF beacons and receivers... RDFs have also been used for years to track wildlife. (Yes, GPSes have been used for tracking wildlife too, but one can still get within a few steps of an animal with an RDF (if it is safe and the animal will sit still... ))

The 406 MHz beacon may only be located to within ~5km from a SARSAT satellite, but can be located to within a few feet from a portable ground-based RDF.

FWIW, I have located a source of radio interference using nothing more than a standard portable radio as an RDF...

Modern PLBs with GPS effectively make the two beacons superfluous (at least for hiking purposes). The GPS coordinates provide a precise location (well, 100 meters is more like the block you live on and not your home address) that can be located with commonly available GPS receivers.

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Only if the GPS gives an accurate location and the victim stays put. There are enough reports of bad locations from SPOT devices (even in benign conditions) that the inaccurate locations in the Matrosova incident could simply be another instance of such a bad location. (If the equipment was malfunctioning due the low temps, it would more likely have given no or an implausible location.) The first location was accurate, but the later one followed by the first team of searchers was inaccurate but plausible.


All equipment (electronic or not) and humans can fail to be usable or functional--or perhaps more dangerously malfunction in ways that are not obvious. Bad conditions, getting lost, or becoming exhausted etc simply make it more likely.

Doug

PLB homing frequencies: Yesteryear's beacon technology.
Do New England SAR organizations use RDF?

GPS accuracy: Imperfect but 'good enough' in most cases.
http://www.findmespot.com/en/spotemergency/
http://www.inreachdelorme.com/why-inreach/inreach-rescues.php

Modern Satellite Emergency Notification Devices (SEND) no longer employ PLB's radio beacons and use GPS exclusively.