Osseo Trail A Problem On Icy Days?

Short notice but I was going over my plans to hit Mt Flume and Mt Liberty via the Osseo Trail and the AMC Guide makes mention of numerous log ladders and stair cases. Is this a bad trail to take when it may be icy? I know those log ladders can be pretty slick when it's wet. Figure ice is even worse. Looks like it's been wet up in NH this week and it is supposed to be pretty chilly tomorrow AM.

If anyone happens to be online tonight and has any feedback on the trail it would be appreciated. Thanks.

In my experience, Osseo is no more or less likely to be icy than any other trail in the Whites. However - at this time of year ALWAYS bring microspikes (Hillsounds or Kahtoolas), and be ready to use them, particularly on the descents.

Is this a question of 'do I bring traction or not' or 'do I bring friends that don't have traction'? With traction this trail is a breeze. The ladder section is not very long but is quite steep. They are steps though, so you probably could handle them without traction if you're careful. Not not sure how icy the section above the slide near the summit gets, but to me that would be the biggest risk.

I always have microspikes. I've only done this summit from the Flume Slide Trail, which I definitely will NOT be taking at this time of year, so I didn't know exactly what the situation was.

I was worried if the ladders were extensive or the type with blocks screwed into rock (like the Fishin' Jimmy Trail or Wildcat Ridge Trail) that it might be a little dicey with that slick layer of fine ice. I did a short section of ladder steps near the waterfalls on middle section of Israel Ridge path a few months ago that were so slick and side sloping that I actually sat down on the treads in some sections and went down sitting/standing (it had rained hard all day, was about 40 deg and they had a lot of mold on them). Don't need to be taking any falls 4 miles into the woods.

Thanks for the quick info guys.

The ladders on the Osseo are more like staircases in angle and construction. They are not pinned into rock like wildcat ridge or fishing jimmy. I've done this trail with early season ice like now and with microspikes its not bad at all. The trail would be more "interesting" or "dangerous" when the ladders get completely buried in snow.

Yeah, we did that last year when they were just barely covered. Kicking in steps was a bit of work, and a friend tore his pants on an exposed section of ladder while glissading back down. The pants survived.

The Osseo ladders

Speaking of the Flume Slide Trail, how do the red-liners hike it? I tried it two Mondays ago and it was too snowy and icy, but even when I first tried it in July 2005, there was one ledge that was just too high (and I’m just over six feet in height) and slick for me to get up on. Perhaps if I’d had someone else with me, I could have gotten a literal leg up, but there was nothing to get a purchase on and I didn’t want to fall off and hit my head, as has happened to some people. So it was into the woods for me on both occasions.

So how do the red-liners do it? Wait until there’s a deep snow cover and use snowshoes? Go with a rock climber and a rope? Inquiring minds want to know.

There is a big ledge somewhere above/around 3200 feet. Wind blows the snow off and heat from the sun makes it into a scramble over a very large sheet of ice. I dont remember a good way around it in deep snow-- just that I decided not to try go over it with snow shoe crampons , and to bring real crampons next time.

Raymond said:

Speaking of the Flume Slide Trail, how do the red-liners hike it?

Click to expand...

I have been both up and down in winter (different years) without traction, it just depends on the snow. I have also done it without snow, easy enough if rock is dry but if wet that is why there is a herd path in the woods

If you must get up on a certain day, it would be wise to take full crampons in winter and maybe a hand line in summer. If you are willing to wait for an appropriate day it's not that bad, there are many tougher trails in the Whites.

Did the trail Saturday and those staircases are definitely no issue. They are very solid with nice wide treads and a comfortable rise between steps. A couple of the single log steps in between sets of stairs had eroded and dislodged but no big deal. About as sturdy and comfortable a set of stairs as anything I've walked on in the Whites. My biggest problem was waiting in line on the descent for the two AMC winter workshop groups coming up. Big groups of 20+ people (isn't the "rule" never to hike in groups of more than 10 ?!?! Guess the AMC is exempt).

On the Flume Slide Trail I did this route last summer and some of those ledges are definitely tricky. I think because the rock is so smooth on these ledges it is harder to grip the hand and foot holds. I also had an issue with my back pack hanging up on the overhanging trees near the edges (I'm 6'3"). The ledges stay pretty moist all year even during dry periods but I was able to negotiate. This is not a trail I'd do in winter. Seems like some technical gear would be mandatory. I'd agree with RoySwkr about the difficulty level, in summer at least. There are more daunting routes out there.

Has anyone ever just come right up the exposed part of the slide? I thought that was what the trail actually did when I first climbed it, like the North slides on Tripyramid, and was pretty bummed out as I climbed wondering when the trail would come out on the slide and then I hit the sign that the summit was only 0.1 miles away. Whenever I walk past that "notch" on the Franconia Ridge trail between the crags of the summit that looks straight down the slide I think to myself that would be a fun way to climb Flume. It looks very doable from the top but I didn't know if there were large ledges or cliffs that were impassable at the bottom. If anyone has ever gone that way let me know what you thought!

DayTrip said:

(isn't the "rule" never to hike in groups of more than 10 ?!?! Guess the AMC is exempt).

Has anyone ever just come right up the exposed part of the [Flume] slide?

Click to expand...

Osseo Trail is not in Wilderness so there is no official rule unless that is in their outfitter/guide permit. If it bothers you, file a complaint with the FS.

I went to try it many winters ago figuring I could always bail to the trail, but was over-eager and went up a different slide that came out near the Liberty/Flume col, which was less steep and easy enough. I will use a GPS to start up the correct slide if I ever decide to try again.

I didn't realize those hiking rules only applied to Wilderness areas. I double checked the WMNF "rules" and see that it is only recommended, not required, outside of Wilderness areas. Always thought it was everywhere. Misunderstood. I take it you may be affiliated in some way with the AMC. No offense was intended. I was just surprised such a substantial organization like the AMC would break the rules, which I realize now they were not. Struck up some good conversation with several people waiting my turn on the stairs, which broke up the descent.

The large groups don't bother me unless they are super loud, which these groups were not. I passed a group on the Jewell Trail last summer with 53 nuns from a convent in South America that sang and clapped as they went up the trail - ALL THE WAY UP THE TRAIL. (Yes that would be 53 - I actually counted). That was seriously annoying. You could hear them pretty much anywhere on the West side of Washington/Clay. That was a bit much for me - although it spurred me on to a personal best time getting away from the noise and on to Washington. The quiet and solitude of the woods is a big plus for me. Don't like it when it feels like I'm in downtown Boston. Of course small groups can be just as loud.....

53 singing nuns - that's impressive, and must have been a sight in its own right! Although, I suppose hiking the Jewel trail one should not expect much solitude. Osseo is also quite popular, so large groups shouldn't be a surprise. I recommend redlining if you're looking for quiet and solitude. A lot of the trails are softer, too.

@Raymond - when I did Flume Slide years ago I did it as a loop, going up Flume, then over to Lincoln, then Falling Waters and down. IIRC, there were many heard paths that skipped the big ledges and some of the scrambles. I actually lost my footing at the top of one of the scrambles and slid all the way down it (~20' or so, on my hands and knees). Somehow I was able to catch myself on the small lip before sliding any further. I was able to re-evaluate my life choices, compose myself and finish the hike, but that is still the closest I've come to not making it out. I feel as though with traction in the winter the hike would be a fair bit easier then just going up the wet rock in the warmer months, but I've yet to try it personally.

There are herd paths, which I’ve used. A few years ago, someone fell and hit his head and had to be arlifted out, I think, so that was on my mind. Especially as I seemed to be the only person on the mountain that day*; I may have lain there a long time if I’d been injured.

* Two people crossing the bike path and two people on the bike path when I first got started, then one person entering the bike path at 6:30 p.m., who must have been planning on climbing by starlight.

Re: the OP's original question:

Conditions change rapidly at this time of year, both day-to-day and during each day* so it can be very hard to predict the conditions on any particular day and place. The key is to bring equipment to cover the likely range of conditions, be flexible, and be willing to turn around if need be. I'd bring at least microspikes (or equivalent) for the Osseo trail (plus crampons and a technical ice axe for the Flume Slide Tr) now--soon it will likely be worth bringing crampons and/or snowshoes. You may use all, some, or none on any particular day.

* Typically, the trails freeze/ice up at night and thaw during the day so the trails are often icy in the morning and wet and muddy in the afternoon. Higher up tends to be icier and lower down wetter.

One can often get a sense of what to expect by following the weather and the trip reports.

Doug

DougPaul said:

Re: the OP's original question:

I'd bring at least microspikes (or equivalent) for the Osseo trail (plus crampons and a technical ice axe for the Flume Slide Tr) now--soon it will likely be worth bringing crampons and/or snowshoes. You may use all, some, or none on any particular day.

Doug

Click to expand...

DougPaul what is your take on ice axes? It seems like it would be a very useful piece of equipment for steeper trails to chip out foot holds, stick in the ice for balance, etc yet it sounds like most people feel it is a waste of time to have. I've been in several situations where I thought it would be handy. And by "axe" I'm talking about a general mountainering axe. I don't do any technical stuff but there are plenty of trails that have a tricky steep section where it seems like it could be useful versus trekking poles which are very prone to slipping. I did a small flow on the back side of Jackson summit last December that was only about 25' but there was no way to bail into trees and I wasn't feeling too comfy with Microspikes and my poles. Is that kind of ice too hard to chip out some solid foot holds with a typical axe?

Curious to hear your opinion. Thanks.