GoreTex vs Polartec Neoshell

With all the winter sales going right now I've been shopping online and in stores for a good winter shell and I'm not 100% sure I'm looking for the right stuff. I currently own a Gore Tex shell (A hard shell? Waterproof and supposedly breathable but I sweat like hell in it). I find on most days I just get too hot in it unless it is really windy and/or really cold. So I'm trying to find a good soft shell but the descriptions on a lot of these products sound like what I already have. What is the specific distinction between the two?

I had a lengthy conversation with a guy at EMS today and he was fond of their EMS Ascent soft shell and the Marmot Super Gravity soft shell. Many of the Marmot models are at fairly good discounts right now so I spent some time tonight online reading about them. The Marmot Nabu softshell sounds like quite the garment but their description of the Polartec NeoShell materials sounds very Gore Tex like, although they insist it is breathable. The Marmot Super Gravity jacket was a definite softshell with their M1 fabric.

I assume some of you out there have and use Marmot gear given their reputation. Anybody want to weigh in on which fabric/jacket I should be looking at? Would appreciate it if someone could clear up the brand name confusion. I found some old threads on GoreTex but nothing for the NeoShell. I don't want to buy another sweat locker.

DayTrip said:

With all the winter sales going right now I've been shopping online and in stores for a good winter shell and I'm not 100% sure I'm looking for the right stuff. I currently own a Gore Tex shell (A hard shell? Waterproof and supposedly breathable but I sweat like hell in it). I find on most days I just get too hot in it unless it is really windy and/or really cold. So I'm trying to find a good soft shell but the descriptions on a lot of these products sound like what I already have. What is the specific distinction between the two?

I had a lengthy conversation with a guy at EMS today and he was fond of their EMS Ascent soft shell and the Marmot Super Gravity soft shell. Many of the Marmot models are at fairly good discounts right now so I spent some time tonight online reading about them. The Marmot Nabu softshell sounds like quite the garment but their description of the Polartec NeoShell materials sounds very Gore Tex like, although they insist it is breathable. The Marmot Super Gravity jacket was a definite softshell with their M1 fabric.

I assume some of you out there have and use Marmot gear given their reputation. Anybody want to weigh in on which fabric/jacket I should be looking at? Would appreciate it if someone could clear up the brand name confusion. I found some old threads on GoreTex but nothing for the NeoShell. I don't want to buy another sweat locker.

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Hi DayTrip,

I have a thicker weight EMS Ascent softshell and it has kept me dry (from precipitation) and relatively dry from perspiration while in a wide variety of winter conditions.

I really like the Marmot M1 shell for days where the weather is more tame and I am working hard. I find it to be a very breathable, thin layer perfect for aerobic hiking conditions and light precipitation.

No idea on Polartec's new items...

I recently picked up a Mountain Hardware hooded softshell that boasts to have dual materials to allow more perspiration breathability and resistance from snow and sleet. It retails for around $160 but I wouldn't take it with me on a day that has that dubious "winter mix" distinction. It doesn't seem as water resistant as the EMS Ascent series softshell or the Marmot M1 material.

I hope this helps,

Z

It looks promising from this test from trailspace.com

"So the company sent samples out for testing on real mountains with no brands, labels, or other identifying marks to bias the outcome.
The response from testers was emphatic. "They all said 'I want it'," Ikemura said.}

Can read the whole article here:
http://www.trailspace.com/blog/2011/01/23/outdoor-retailer-polartec-neoshell.html

If you get one, let me know how it works. I usually start sweating getting out of the car. The best I've done is to hike in a vest, sleeveless has been the best I've come up with, "extreme pit-zips." Outside of a 35 degree pouring rain, it's got to be a downpour or very stiff wind to see me in a shell. The vest is 1st generation wind-bloc so it's decent in light rain.

Can't speak to your specific question about Goretex vs. NeoShell. My experience with Goretex is the same as yours - sweat locker - but when you need a hard shell you need it.

Spent 5 days this winter in the Adirondack High Peaks wearing a Marmot ROM (M2), which sold me on the soft shell for most conditions. By varying base layer weights, I was comfortable in temps ranging from -10 to +25F. With the combination of Gore Windstopper fabric and breathable side panels making pit zips extraneous, I've found it to be an excellent garment, and at less than $80 from STP, a steal. Only beef is the handwarmer pockets are low and hang up under a hip belt.

Based on Mike P's link above, the NeoShell certainly does sound promising though. So much gear, so little money.

Thanks for the input. I get colder than most so I'm a little concerned. But the hard shell is so damn warm I feel like I have to try something else. That Nabu jacket looks like quite the piece of gear but I'm too worried it won't breathe like my existing shell. I'm think I'm going to hit EMS today and take a second look at the Marmot coat.

You should try a simple wind shell. The LL Bean anorak works fine for winter hiking.

"twice as breathable as eVent"... so maybe it's actually practical, but I'll wait for the prices to come down further.

I'm with JFB. If I need protection from wind, snow, or rain, I put on a simple rain shell. If it's not storming, the shell comes off. (I also carry a down jacket for when I stop moving or for when the conditions warrant).

nartreb said:

"twice as breathable as eVent".

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Backpackinglight.com did an extensive review of all the new shell fabrics a few years back, including NeoShell and several others that had come out with claims about how much better than GoreTex and eVent they were. The final findings were that none of the new fabrics performed significantly differently than GoreTex-- the only variations had more to do with outside conditions and manual venting (pit zips, chest zip, etc.) than any fabric. I think this is the link, although I no longer have a subscription so I can't look at it anymore. Another takeaway was that all the marketing claims of "twice as breathable as whatever else" were total nonsense.

I've heard so many anecdotes from people saying they've had their [insert new breathable technology here] jacket zipped up all the way, and they'd hiked uphill at 3mph with a full backpack and the jacket was so breathable they weren't sweating at all when they got to the top of the climb. Which is BS. Even if you're in a tee-shirt and shorts, you'll sweat under those conditions. No rain shell, I don't care how breathable it is, is more breathable than a tee shirt. Therefore, more clothing + equal exertion = more sweat.

nartreb said:

I'm with JFB. If I need protection from wind, snow, or rain, I put on a simple rain shell. If it's not storming, the shell comes off. (I also carry a down jacket for when I stop moving or for when the conditions warrant).

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I wear a wind shell all the time as an outer layer and adjust midlayers as required to stay comfortably warm. I'll also carry a w/b shell if it might rain.

I went with the Super Gravity. EMS had it in the store so I was able to try out the fit, etc. I got a Primaloft shirt type thin jacket/layer as a heavy layer to use with the jacket if it's really cold (It was almost 70% off and had pit vents and big pockets so it seemed like a good layer for someone who gets cold like me). So I have yet another combination of layers to experiment with as the winter season winds down.

I think the Marmot Estes Hoody would make a good choice. The M3 fabric is supposed to be more breathable than the M1. It looks almost identical to my Patagonia Stretch Krushell.

jfb said:

I think the Marmot Estes Hoody would make a good choice. The M3 fabric is supposed to be more breathable than the M1. It looks almost identical to my Patagonia Stretch Krushell.

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The M3 is the most breathable of the three types but I get cold pretty easy (or at least far easier than it sounds many of you do based on what you say you are wearing) so I was trying to find something in between super breathable and hard shell. I tried out the Super Gravity Tuesday on my hike and I liked it quite a bit. It definitely was much cooler than my hard shell but was warm enough with just a midweight base layer. When I summited Eisenhower I intentionally did not put on my down coat over it (although I did add a layer underneath when I got above treeline back at Pierce) to see how long/whether I would stay warm. It was 17 deg with 5-10mph (wind chill on the Kestrel said 4 deg F) and it was on the cool side of comfortable and did cool off faster than my hard shell but all in all I think I made the right call. Think it will be the "standard" jacket for most of my hikes.

My only gripe about the jacket is the hood. It is pretty snug fitting and the thin fleece lining really grabs onto hats and other head gear and as a result doesn't move well with the movement of your head side to side. I pulled it on my head at a few points just to see what the heat factor change was and it seemed to build up moisture when I had hood on. I was a little concerned about that but I suspect if it is cold enough I want the hood on it won't do that like it did during the climb.

Now I have to figure out what pair of pants I need to get. My next gear project!

The most important observation is whether the new shell trapped moisture like the hardshell or let it escape. Adding insulation under any shell for cold conditions is expected.