Valley way or Watson Path Trail To Madison?

Trying to figure out if it is better to backtrack from Valley way to Mt Madison or take Watson path.

Wendellator said:

Trying to figure out if it is better to backtrack from Valley way to Mt Madison or take Watson path.

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Valley Way is one of the first trails broken out in the region and almost certainly before Watson Path which can be harder to follow above treeline and can be exposed to the wind. It's a great route if you're up for a more rugged, rougher descent, but it's a level of difficulty up from Valley Way on most days. Valley Way has far fewer small scrambles to deal with and is quite sheltered most of the way.

Cool,thank you

Raven said:

Valley Way is one of the first trails broken out in the region and almost certainly before Watson Path which can be harder to follow above treeline and can be exposed to the wind. It's a great route if you're up for a more rugged, rougher descent, but it's a level of difficulty up from Valley Way on most days. Valley Way has far fewer small scrambles to deal with and is quite sheltered most of the way.

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Ditto: if you're looking for the easiest way back take Valley Way. If you're looking for the biggest adventure take Watson. If there's fresh unpacked snow on those steep sections, it will be an adventure.

Watson Path also has significant Wind exposure down off of Madison when the wind is from the west or northwest. As it not used as often as Valley Way, with significant snow on the ground it could be challenge to follow the trail out of the rocky sections into the woods. I would not want to try it in windy or snowy conditions with poor visibility.

Down low, the hike along the stream can be difficult as the snow will drift over the trail and sidehilling can be a PITA.

Doing the presidential traverse next week and was trying to figure which one to start from. Had read TR about both

Wendellator said:

Doing the traverse next week and was trying to figure which one to start from. Had read TR about both

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I recommend climbing Madison via Valley Way, then from the summit ridge of Madison you should have a good idea of what the weather is. If conditions are good and you are certain they will stay good for the next hour or two, then take Watson down. If in doubt, go back the way you came. I did this loop many years ago in December, the Watson path is relatively easy to follow due to the cairnes. But beware if it gets socked in or if the snow obscures the trail it may be tricky to find where the trail enters the woods (It wasn't when we did it, but conditions were good too). There were several stream crossings which were not an issue when we did it, but it takes little imagination that they could be under the wrong conditions. Just give your self plenty of time to negotiate these types of issues. If in doubt, take Valley way. Cutting over to airline is another option in good weather for descent. Very exposed like Watson, but less likely to get lost (I think), since it just follows a well defined ridge down.

If I was going to do a loop on Madison using the Valley way and the Watson Path, I would ascend Watson and descend the Valley way. I prefer to descend a trail that has little potential "issues" and the Valley way fits that bill. Descending a trail that you did not ascend, can open the door to concerns and possibly forces you to go back "up". I take the harder route up and relish the easier route down, but thats just me.

Wendellator said:

Doing the traverse next week and was trying to figure which one to start from. Had read TR about both

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Ah, now I understand your question. When faced with a north-to-south winter traverse (I know it's not winter, but up there it is), folks tend to want every efficiency and time advantage they can get -- which in winter drastically favors ascending via Valley Way to the hut, Osgood up to the summit and back, and then onward with Gulfside. In all but the weirdest of circumstances (which I've never experienced), this is a complete no-brainer, not even close.

A couple of tangents...

1. In non-winter conditions, however, I do prefer beginning my north-to-south traverses with a direct hike to the Madison summit -- feels more geographically faithful to the term 'traverse'. There are lots of fun options for this, and my fave is Pine Link to Howker Ridge -- amazing early morning views of the goal. The Valley Way/Watson Path route you were considering is also nice.

2. When engaged in a south-to-north traverse in any season, a Watson Path descent is grueling -- basically a seemingly interminable stretch of steep boulder work amid boulders that are particularly large and angular. Even if you're willing to bash out your knees, not a time/energy saver vs. the adjacent options. A completely different 'personality' (much nastier) on descent vs. on ascent.

Most folks responding here didn't understand the context of the question, but the advice was correct. Watson Path is significantly more difficult than Valley Way, especially in winter. Watson is a great alternative if you want some extra adventure and solitude, but if you're doing a Presi traverse you should strongly consider saving your strength. It's also a good idea to be sure you know where to find Valley Way in case you encounter nasty conditions above treeline and you need to get down quickly.

Thanks for all the beta. I have very good laminated maps, and a back up gps, with all the pres coordinates. Definately going to bail if conditions suck. Hopefullyweather will be good to me.

If "traverse" is to be assumed to mean a "presi traverse" meaning to traverse the entire Presidential range then no, I never got that out of this question. A summit traverse to me simply means to descend a route other than what you climbed. In this case "traverse" means to traverse Madison, I do not see anything in the text that would say otherwise. But then to me winter in New England is Thanksgiving to tax day, and varies from year to year, not the calendar winter literal definition that clubs use such as the 46ers and NH 4000ers use to distinguish winter climbers from climbers that climb in any season.

Whatever the specifics of the question, the Watson Path is not a place to be caught off guard. There are not many trails I'd less like to be coming down if the wind picked up and white outs were possible. More than a few people have been terribly lost on this route. It's an interesting question because it compares the easiest, safest descent route out of the Northern Pressies (Valley Way) to one of the most potentially dangerous ones. Personally, if my knees feel good, I always take the Watson Path in three seasons off Madison, but once the snow falls, I consider this choice carefully. I'm quite sure I've hiked the VW far more than any other trail in the Whites and tend to take other routes off Madison given good conditions, but on rough days, that trail is a blessing.

Lots of excellent information here as always. I agree with Sierra that as a general rule, ascend the more difficult route and descend the easier one. That's the way we did it, albeit in late summer conditions. As someone else noted, there is more exposure on Watson Path and wind can be a significant issue. This can be an unforgiving slope as those familiar with the Mac Barr saga can attest.

Sorry should of been more specific in regards to using the word"Traverse" I ment the Presidential> Sorry for any confusion.I do appreciate all the info.

No worries, I just noticed you said it was a Presi traverse in a different thread. I did not put 2 & 2 together. Have a great time !