Three things about Baxter Park

sierra said:

First off, I agree the East is crowded and I can see why the current state of limitations into Baxter gives it a more remote feel. Personally, if I want remote wilderness, I seek it in CO. There is enough land out there, that you can always find a place away from people, ( although the 14ers are not that quiet) the 13ers however are the hidden Gem. Anywho, I digress. I go into the mountans to be free to do what I want, I do not like rules and regulations. I will not even by a parking Pass, but thats another debate. I climbed Katahdin in the 80's and I did not like the following. I had to get up way early and sit in front a gate just to get in. They classed the days according to the weather, on certain days you couldnt go above treeline. I mean, I'm going to drive 6 hours and not be able to summit? But the thing that ended my time in Baxter was the winter regs for sure. I put in to solo the mountain during the winter months. Its a amazing mountain and a winter ascent would have been awesome, I had the skills and would have had a great chance. They basically laughed at me, minimum party of 4 blah blah blah. That did it for me, I've never been back and I wont go back. I go to the mountains to seek freedom, not have to check on rule after rule, to tiptoe around and have a ranger sniffing at me at every turn, no thanks. I know, The park is beautifull, many do what they have to do to go there. If thats ok for you then have at it, we just come from different perspectives regarding wilderness. No right or wrong, just different.

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I've heard similar stories about the park from the 70's and 80's, and I'm going to assume that the rules must have been relaxed a bit since then. The only hoop I had to jump through for a week-long backpacking trip there this summer, and then another three-day trip in September, was calling the park to reserve campsites a few weeks ahead of time. It took ten minutes of my time, and guaranteed me quiet campsites without any neighbors.

The sentiment of "I'm going to drive 6 hours and not be able to summit?" strikes me as a bit arrogant (although I'm assuming that's not how you meant it). As someone who spends a lot of time in the mountains, I never feel that it's my right to succeed whenever I set out to do something. Granted, it's usually internal or natural factors causing that failure, not a ranger saying I can't do something, but I would never let the lack of success be the defining characteristic of a trip. So what if you don't get to do exactly what you want and climb the mountain on a stormy day? Check out some of the lower parts of the park, or climb a different mountain (others have mentioned Doubletop and the Brothers. I'll add the Traveler to that list, which is one of the most beautiful mountains I've ever seen). I'm guessing that when you fly to CO and go on trips there, you're not angry when external factors shut you out of a goal, right?

So you're right that it's not one of us is right and one of us is wrong. For me, getting on a plane even for an hour is more of a hassle than driving three hours to Millinocket. I know the area much better than I know the Rockies, and that is part of what appeals to me. I know where to go to find the kind of solitude I want, and the kind of scenery I enjoy. And when I see rules put in place by land managers (of which there are many in all public lands, even in the Rockies), I see that as a sign that people care about the land enough to want to preserve it.

Either you are a peakbagger or you are not a peakbagger. If you are, then when you drive 6 hours to hike Katahdin, you want to attempt to hike Katahdin, and being turned around by your own choosing is less of a let down than finding out the hard way that "it is closed".

As an example... I don't know what they pay IT staff in Penobscott County, but down the Boston/Southern NH way, IT contracts start at $50/hour or so--put another way, that drive is worth $300 of your time.

Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

Either you are a peakbagger or you are not a peakbagger. If you are, then when you drive 6 hours to hike Katahdin, you want to attempt to hike Katahdin, and being turned around by your own choosing is less of a let down than finding out the hard way that "it is closed". Tim

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I can entirely understand the disappointment in being turned away, but whether you're a peak bagger or not you need to know what you're getting into wherever you go hiking. If you know ahead of time about the rules, you can plan for the eventuality of the peak being closed. And then maybe you'll find something else to do that turns out to be a good time, anyway.

And that gets back to the original point where Sierra asked what annoys me about through-hikers sneaking dogs into the park— every through-hiker with a dog knows that dogs aren't allowed in the Smokeys and Baxter, so they can plan for that. But when their plan is just to break the rules because they think they're above them, that's arrogant and disrespectful to everyone who follows and agrees with the rules. I absolutely respect Sierra's way of dealing with the rules, which is to go somewhere else that he enjoys more. That way he does something he enjoys, doesn't antagonize Baxter, and everyone has a good time.

I take the fact that I have a weekend for myself as a gift. I haven't been to Baxter often, probably 6 or 7 times in my life, but it is also true that I have never had a reservation. I showed up, asked what's available and took it. No matter where you go in BSP it will be great and you will have a good time.

The wasted 6 hour drive thankfully is a non issue these days. The day use parking system was put in place to prevent that. Its pretty simple check the website, buy a permit and drive up. Anyone capable of using VFTT has the technical skills to do this. For the totally stubborn, there is still the option to drive that 6 hours and wait in line hoping there was a no show. Compared to pre day use parking pass time where you drove up and took your chances that you were in line in time at 3:30 AM, I think the current system works far better. Even on the busiest weekends, there are usually passes available at one of the lots 4 or 5 days in advance. Sure the last minutes hiker is denied the right to hike the big K but there is always the Brothers , the Travelers, Doubletop and many others that are wide open. Having been in the park on a nice Labor Day weekend, even with the parking pass, the place is still crowded and I sure wouldn't want to see it with no limits. I expect this year it will be even more crowded with Abol trail shut down.

The DUPR does not guarantee you will be allowed to (attempt to) summit Katahdin. Despite all the other beautiful options, that is the goal of a majority of BSP users.

Tim

I have been up there when Katahdin was "closed" due to weather (cloudy and rain). It was Columbus Day weekend, we booked it many months in advance, and frankly were there only to climb Katahdin (first trip up there). They had rangers stationed at Katahdin Stream keeping people off the mountain. By 10:30, they were not there and we went up. After summitting in zero visibility, the clouds broke and we were afforded the most amazing views I had ever seen up to that time.

The regulations and rules are in place. It is what it is. If it is not your style stay home or go else where. Besides it will leave more room for the rest of us. I have taken a lot of folks to Baxter over the years doing all the logistics myself. Almost all of them have an attitude about the Rules and Regulations before going but once they get there it is usually a full 180 in their mentality and they understand why it is the way it is. Climbing Katahdin for the first time especially in Winter for a lot of folks is a graduation hike as it was for me. Personally I relished in all the logistics which helped pave the way for much bigger expeditions that make getting into Baxter seem quite small. I agree with Brambor also. I have had some good luck just being spontaneous as much as planning way ahead of time to make the trip. You never know what you might get.

Sorry for the disconnect, despite the name I use on VFTT I am actually a reformed peakbagger. The concept of driving 6 hours without checking a forecast and bagging a summit with zero visibility and nasty conditions just isn't to my interest. When I long ago first submitted my 4000 footer list, I didn't send it until I had a reasonable view from all the summits.

I apologize to the list obsessive

I did mean it when I said I was not happy at being turned away. For me the summit is everything and I have a lot to throw at, I'm stubborn and will scratch my way up in horrible conditions if I have too. Being told I cannot even try is why Baxter is off my radar, it's all yours. I to be honest haven't even looked at the rules in years, but I'm not interested anyway. I summited the peak and I wont be back.

In terms of regulations Baxter State Park has undergone a reformation.

Trails are closed if there is a threat to the environment (melt out/mud season) or people (Abol slide with the loose giant rocks-I certainly would not want one kicked down on me). In the past trails would be closed due to weather. This is no longer the case.

Perceval Baxter bought the land and provided a large enough trust that the park requires no state money. It is a park given in trust and governed by that trust for the people of Maine. His guiding measure is that it is a place for the wild animals and woods. It is a truly fantastic park. The website lays out the park and reservation system well.


Back to the OP-that slide show is missing parts when viewed on my laptop.

The park continues to make real progress under Jensen Biesel's even hand. The new position should continue the adapting of the park to today's internet age.