backcountry skis and boots for the trails in the Whites

I'm retiring my twenty-five year old telemark skis for skis that will handle New England backcountry trails a little better. I know I need:
- metal edges
- waxless base
- decent control
- warm boots

I'm unsure about camber. My past experience was that double camber == bad turning. But turning on the often cut-up, always variable, sometimes icy hiking trails was never a sure thing anyway. But my weight often collapsed the camber anyway, so gliding wasn't that great. Has this improved?

I want them to work reasonably well from the Sherburne ski trail to the ski trail to Zealand Falls hut. Figure 45lbs of gear and 180lbs of person. They don't need to be good resort skis.

For boots, they just need to be warm, comfortable, and give me some ability to turn.

Any suggestions for skis or boots?

Okay, I thought I'd let others offer suggestions before I chimed in with my (now possibly tiresome) recommendation. But I can't let you continue to be unaware of the Madshus Annum, which I bought last summer and have used many times this winter. This review makes the case as well as I could.

Some shopping around (especially this time of year) will take a couple hundred dollars off that MSRP, BTW. Don't let that be a deterrent.

What sardog1 said. I think the best bindings, unless you want to get race crazy, are Silvretta 500's. They will take plastic mountaineering boots, Scarpa Inverno's, et c., which will take crampons, snowshoes and you can walk in them. This is strictly a backcountry combo, if you want to do AT/downhill things get far more complicated. I hope this helps.

Duck bill tlelmark boots are the pits, IMO.

Gremlin said:

Duck bill tlelmark boots are the pits, IMO.

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Wrong, duckbill tele boots are the bomb!

The problem with your requirements is that equipment that makes a run down the Sherbourne trail fun is going to be wicked heavy for the kick and glide into Zealand. AT gear, while great for many things, is going to be painful going into Zealand. I've got a tele bias, but I'd probably go with something like a Voile Vector BC ski, paired with one of the newer backcountry bindings like the Axl, Switchback, or any with a free pivot touring mode. For an "everything" boot, something like a Scarpa T2 or equivalent gives you the widest range of coverage, even if it's a bit heavy for long approaches.

David Metsky said:

Wrong, duckbill tele boots are the bomb!

The problem with your requirements is that equipment that makes a run down the Sherbourne trail fun is going to be wicked heavy for the kick and glide into Zealand. AT gear, while great for many things, is going to be painful going into I'd probably go with something like a Voile Vector BC ski, paired with one of the newer backcountry bindings like the Axl, Switchback, or any with a free pivot touring mode. For an "everything" boot, something like a Scarpa T2 or equivalent gives you the widest range of coverage, even if it's a bit heavy for long approaches.

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I have the Hammerhead, predecessor to the Axl, on my Annums and love it for touring and turning. I can only imagine how sweet the latter must be from the reviews.

I agree with David here. We were going up Zealand road past saturday and two gents with AT gear were slogging it up. I would be mighty annoyed to tour to Zealand on that and I am an AT user for Sherburne.

David Metsky said:

Wrong, duckbill tele boots are the bomb!

The problem with your requirements is that equipment that makes a run down the Sherbourne trail fun is going to be wicked heavy for the kick and glide into Zealand. AT gear, while great for many things, is going to be painful going into Zealand. I've got a tele bias, but I'd probably go with something like a Voile Vector BC ski, paired with one of the newer backcountry bindings like the Axl, Switchback, or any with a free pivot touring mode. For an "everything" boot, something like a Scarpa T2 or equivalent gives you the widest range of coverage, even if it's a bit heavy for long approaches.

Click to expand...

David Metsky said:

Wrong, duckbill tele boots are the bomb!

The problem with your requirements is that equipment that makes a run down the Sherbourne trail fun is going to be wicked heavy for the kick and glide into Zealand. AT gear, while great for many things, is going to be painful going into Zealand. I've got a tele bias, but I'd probably go with something like a Voile Vector BC ski, paired with one of the newer backcountry bindings like the Axl, Switchback, or any with a free pivot touring mode. For an "everything" boot, something like a Scarpa T2 or equivalent gives you the widest range of coverage, even if it's a bit heavy for long approaches.

Click to expand...

I can always buy cheap used equipment for the Sherbourne, so I'll drop that. But yeah, I see that the tradeoffs are heavier, fatter hourglass boards give more control while lighter straighter double camber skis are great for touring.

I'd rather err on the side of lighter with more glide. I just didn't want to completely give up control - too many episodes of careening wildly down a trail on track skis as a kid.

For most of my backcountry touring when turns aren't the goal I use Fischer Outtabounds, Rottefella 3-pins with cables, and Garmont Excursions. Sounds like that would be the lightest you want to go, maybe upgrading any or all of those components slightly.

You will be hard-pressed to realize the benefits of double camber when you're off a packed trail. (The pun at the beginning is unintentional.) What matters more in that circumstance is how the ski responds to a variety of conditions.

There is no perfect ski, just like there is no perfect boat (ask the U.S. Navy), and there's a lot to be said for versatility. Some suggestions along those lines are offered by ORS Cross Country Skis Direct at Backcountry ski packages

I find that for light touring equipment it's best to keep your eye out on trash day or yard sales. It is absolutely amazing how many perfectly usable cross-country skis end up in the trash. So for the kick and glide into Zealand, by 75 mm lightweight boots and watch the trash for free skis. actually I've been finding the "modern" SNS skis in the trash as well. But I'm a big fan of skinny wooden skis for kick and glide.
And now you saved enough money to buy dynafit AT gear.

Darn. And all along I thought my old kayak was the perfect boat. I guess it might not be the best platform for launching Tridents.

Maynewoods said:

I find that for light touring equipment it's best to keep your eye out on trash day or yard sales. It is absolutely amazing how many perfectly usable cross-country skis end up in the trash. So for the kick and glide into Zealand, by 75 mm lightweight boots and watch the trash for free skis. actually I've been finding the "modern" SNS skis in the trash as well. But I'm a big fan of skinny wooden skis for kick and glide.
And now you saved enough money to buy dynafit AT gear.

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Not wood base??? I skied on those as a kid (back in the 70s and 80s) and was hoping not to go back to scraping (or melting!) klister off.

But this is an interesting point. I have a pair of Tua Wilderness now, that I like well enough, but the old leather tele boots chew up my heels into hamburger when I try to kick and glide for a few miles. Maybe I should just get a better pair of boots and use those for all-around backcountry use.

Then I can get some of those trash-day waxless skis, add save up for a half-decent tele package if I ever go back to the resorts. (Or, to save even more money, I could just go with downhill equipment, which I also see on trash day!)

jrichard said:

I can always buy cheap used equipment for the Sherbourne, so I'll drop that. But yeah, I see that the tradeoffs are heavier, fatter hourglass boards give more control while lighter straighter double camber skis are great for touring.

I'd rather err on the side of lighter with more glide. I just didn't want to completely give up control - too many episodes of careening wildly down a trail on track skis as a kid.

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If I remember correctly, your issue was not skis and downhill, it was poles and uphill.

TJsName said:

If I remember correctly, your issue was not skis and downhill, it was poles and uphill.

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Haha, you're right! Lesson learned: don't charge a hill with skate poles! They do bend.

Meta lesson: it's darned hard to find shops that rent backcountry gear for people outside of one sigma.

Just back from the High Peaks, snowshoeing and seeing everyone cover so many miles with a seemingly effortless style...made me contemplate returning to ski's. Thoughts on the Altai Hok Ski? The Mountaineer is selling it and it looks good. Could I use my Keen Summit Country III's?

The Altai Hoks are an alternative to snowshoes, but not really for skis. If I'm going out to ski I want a ski that glides well and turns. If you want to explore they look like they'd be great. If you want to cover distance and earn turns, they are not the right choice.

David Metsky said:

The Altai Hoks are an alternative to snowshoes, but not really for skis. If I'm going out to ski I want a ski that glides well and turns. If you want to explore they look like they'd be great. If you want to cover distance and earn turns, they are not the right choice.

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Thanks David!

jrichard said:

I'm retiring my twenty-five year old telemark skis for skis that will handle New England backcountry trails a little better. I know I need:
- metal edges
- waxless base
- decent control
- warm boots

I'm unsure about camber. My past experience was that double camber == bad turning. But turning on the often cut-up, always variable, sometimes icy hiking trails was never a sure thing anyway. But my weight often collapsed the camber anyway, so gliding wasn't that great. Has this improved?

I want them to work reasonably well from the Sherburne ski trail to the ski trail to Zealand Falls hut. Figure 45lbs of gear and 180lbs of person. They don't need to be good resort skis.

For boots, they just need to be warm, comfortable, and give me some ability to turn.

Any suggestions for skis or boots?

Click to expand...

I start with boots. For Nordic gear, I think there are 3 options, only 2 of which I think make a lot of sense. I match the boots to the trip and then pick skis.

First, there are backcountry combi boots. They have leather/fabric lowers and a hinged external cuff like an in-track skate or combi boot. They are generally available in both NNN-BC and in 75mm (I prefer the latter). The Fischer BCX6/BCX675 is one example. These boots are light, warm and stride better than old low-cut leather boots and offer lateral and turning abilities on par with the old high leather lace ups like the Merrill Ultra or Asolo Extreme. They may not be as durable but the performance improvement is so huge, who cares?

I use boots like this for flatter rough and rugged trips. Anything that starts at Lincoln Woods, the Hitchcock or Livermore Rd loops, the Upper Nanamacomuck, Zealand Notch - trips of this sort.

My strong preference on skis for trips like this are for FLAT cambered skis, or soft camber and a half skis, with tips in the high 60s to low 70s. Something like the current E99 or Madshus Glittertind. I like Rottefella Super Telemark pins for this sort of rig. I'm taking this to the Upper Nana this coming weekend.

The second style of boot that makes sense to me is a light, 2 buckle plastic boot like the Excursion. This is for more turn oriented trip or up and down trips on hiking trails like Garfield or Chacura. Wider flat skis with tips in the 90 - 110 mm range make sense.

North of this, you get into the range of big tele boots and for that, AT makes more sense to me. You can do a lot with Excursions though. I'd ski the Sherburne on those, no problem. Not as fast and danger but still fun.