Seen along the trails on Adams today

dug said:

Not permanently, but laying there unable to move, activating a button, doesn't mean one is able to light a stove, crawl into a tent, put on warm clothes, and wait it out.

What killed her was leaving the parking lot, not all the missing gear...IMO.

Click to expand...

Tom_Murphy said:

Yes, you are correct that some accidents are unsurvivable no matter what preparation you take. The recent death may (or may not) have been in that catergory.

Can we agree on a hypothetical trip in order to move past that disagreement ?

A solo traverse of the Northern Presidentals in the winter in severe enough weather that you can not be sure you will encounter anyone else but not so severe that you need to cancel the trip at the trailhead.

Or is that a trip you should never do?

Should you be prepared to be benighted due to a broken ankle on a solo day hike?

If you want to be prepared to be benighted due to a broken ankle on a solo traverse of the Northern Presidentals in the winter in severe enough weather that you can not be sure you will encounter anyone else, what should you bring with you?

My answer was: avy shovel, sleeping pad, sleeping bag, bivy, snowshoes, food, stove, and a compass.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

dug said:

I would carry most of that, if it were me...except the sleeping pad and shovel.

The crux of the argument is carrying too much (and what that is open to debate) only slows you down, making the need for overnight gear my applicable. My opinion is that I would need to survive the night on my own, and would carry that.

Click to expand...

dug said:

I carry a 2'x2' piece of closed foam. That and my pack will be enough to survive, not thrive.

Click to expand...

DougPaul said:

That is enough if you can sit up. I had one when I had my accident (broken femur and hip, on snow) and decided that I should have brought a full size pad. (Fortunately I was able to sit up.)

Yes, you can use your pack under you as insulation or empty it and put your feet in it. But a full size pad is better (but bigger and heavier).


FWIW, Dugal Haston and Doug Scott bivouaced in a snow cave near the South Summit of Everest (28,750 ft) in 1975. Scott had left his down clothing* below and spent the night enlarging their cave (ie exercising) to keep warm. Haston had his down suit. (They didn't have pads or sleeping bags.) By staying active, they were able avoid frostbite in the -50C (estimated) temps and continued down the next morning.
* Full down suits are pretty normal clothing at those altitudes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_British_Mount_Everest_Southwest_Face_expedition
https://www.himalayanclub.org/hj/34/1/everest-south-west-face-climbed/

FWIW2: Tom Horbein, Willi Unsoeld, Barry Bishop, and Lute Jerstad bivouaced in the open between the South Summit of Everest and the South Col (~28,000 ft) in 1963. It was a cold, but fortunately windless night. Three of the four suffered frostbite and two lost toes. http://www.adventure-journal.com/2013/10/the-aj-list-9-legendary-bivouacs/

We should note that these examples feature uninjured elite climbers. Both bivouacs were done without supplementary oxygen.

Doug

Click to expand...

DougPaul said:

That is enough if you can sit up. I had one when I had my accident (broken femur and hip, on snow) and decided that I should have brought a full size pad. (Fortunately I was able to sit up.)

Yes, you can use your pack under you as insulation or empty it and put your feet in it. But a full size pad is better (but bigger and heavier).

Click to expand...