Parking in July in White Mountains

Hi folks. I am new to the forum and have planned a trip to the White Mountains this summer. We have a Monday night in July booked at Lake of the Clouds hut and then Tuesday night at Madison hut.

Question: If I park the car at Pinkham Notch does it seem reasonable that we can come up and traverse west to the Lake of Clouds hut in one day? The mileage looks simple enough, but I'm not 100% sure of the terrain. Routes to recommend? We are 46ers, so hope this terrain is similar to what we encounter in ADKs.

Can we leave our car at Pinkham Notch Lodge/Visitors Centre for 3 days and 2 nights? On a Monday morning would it likely be full? I know there is a bus/shuttle service, but I think this needs to be booked in advance as well, so I was hoping we could park and hike a loop (Pinkham Notch/Lake of Clouds/Madison/back to Pinkham Notch).

I'm also wondering if we should be booking Sunday night at Pinkham Notch so we are ready to 'roll' up the mountain Monday morning.

All comments welcome... feeling a little lost in my maps right now!

Parking should be no problem. Time should be no problem. Booking Sunday night at Pinkham would be wise.

I'd recommend going up the Boott Spur Trail and Camel Trail to LOC. Follow the AT to Madison Hut and the AT back to Pinkham.

Best of luck with the weather.

jfb said:

Parking should be no problem. Time should be no problem. Booking Sunday night at Pinkham would be wise.

I'd recommend going up the Boott Spur Trail and Camel Trail to LOC. Follow the AT to Madison Hut and the AT back to Pinkham.

Best of luck with the weather.

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Thanks so much! I assume Boott Spur trail runs right into the Pinkham Notch Lodge. My maps indicate this would be a total mileage of 4.2 miles from Pinkham Notch to Lake of Clouds Hut. Plenty of time to dump our gear at the hut and perhaps explore Mt. Monroe and maybe even Mt. Franklin.

Thanks again.

You could probably stay in Gorham, Jackson, Glen, North Conway or the White Mountain Hostel and get to Pinkham. (PNVC would be the equivalent of the HPIC in the ADK)

So looks like you plan on hitting Washington on your way to Madison & then likely following the AT back to Pinkham. Not sure heading to Franklin is much better than the view you get from Monroe. (it's Monroe's version of Little Haystack, well there is a Little Monroe also) There are a couple of options for getting from Pinkham, up or around Tuckerman Ravine & then over to LOC. You want to get a view of Tuckerman Ravine, Boott Spur or Lion's Head both work or the Tuckerman Ravine trail, I'd probably do Boott also.

Terrain, similar but different than the ADK. The Presidentials are rockier, the northern peaks do have a decent drop between the peaks so more Great Range feel on the ups and downs on the North. (The Southern peaks are more of a ridge walk with smaller ups and downs) You'll be above treeline from about 2.5 - 3 miles on Monday until you are 1.5 - 2 miles beyond Madison Hut on Wednesday. It would be like walking around Marcy's cone all on Monday afternoon and then all day Tuesday and then a couple of hours on Wednesday before you see a tree over 10 feet high. (well you see them down in the valley, not next to you)

As a 46er you shouldn't have any issues with the bugs or the hiking, Washington's nickname of "The Rockpile" is well deserved.

Enjoy

Hi! Thanks for info on terrain and Monroe being the better hit over Franklin. I noticed there is a place in Gorham called 'Top Notch Inn' and it looks like it might be a better night's sleep than the Pinkham Notch hostel (cheaper too). Thanks for this.

ADK_Dreamer said:

Thanks so much! I assume Boott Spur trail runs right into the Pinkham Notch Lodge.

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Boott Spur trail does not start exactly at Pinkam Notch, but rather begins on the left-hand side of Tuckerma Ravine Trail probably less than half a mile from Pinkham Notch visitor center. Some time ago I did some work on marking this trail on OpenStreetMap.org, so I think its location on the map should be fairly accurate: http://waymarkedtrails.org/en/relation/3075305?zoom=14&lat=44.25687&lon=-71.2821&hill=0.5#
The trail rises steadily at a pace that is faster than what you would get from following Tuckerman Ravine Trail but then by the time you get to be above Hermite Lake you will have most of your elevation gain done and you get a great view of Tuckerman Ravine on your right. While I think the trail is not really technical, it has one ladder to scale, so if you are planning to carry a heavy pack you might take it into consideration, but if you just go for 3 days staying at the huts then I imagine your pack weight won't be excessive. Good luck!

One major caveat is that there is no sheltered routes from the west side of the mountain to Lake of the clouds hut. No matter what trail you take, all three have significant exposure to afternoon thunderstorms. The only option in that case is drive around to the east side and go up Ammonoosuc Ravine trail and catch a shuttle back at the end of the trip. Huntington Ravine Trail despite it looking like a nice option should not be done with a backpack on. It is borderline technical in spots.

The Tuckerman Ravine Trail is a wide heavily used trail (The Van Hovenberg or NH except it's road wide to the floor of the Ravine. Boott Spur allows a view of the ravine from one side of the lip, Lion's head the other side but LH branches off the TRT almost in the Ravine itself.) Boott is fairly steep but it won't be anything you've not seen before. (It's not the back side of Saddleback or overall as steep as climbing Algonquin from Lake Colden.)

I don't think I've stayed at the Top Notch but you can probably search it here and find a thread that mentions it. I have found that the Joe Dodge Lodge (Pinkham) is pretty comfy. Lately, when I've stayed in NH the night before, I've stayed at the White Mountain Hostel in Conway. Inexpensive and clean with the possibility of meeting a couple of other hikers. (I've stayed in my share of hotels for work so I'm not looking for another pampered night. OTOH, some people like that before or after two nights in a bunkroom or on the ground.)

as iAm mentioned, for the huts, you won't need too much extra gear. My favorite things for the huts are a cotton sleeping bag liner as it's nice on warm nights alone and doubles as a fitted and regular sheet if I need to use a wool blanket or two. I usually use my sandals and tomorrow's clean socks as my hut slippers after I reach the hut. (Your water crossings on the last day should be pretty easy & in some cases bridged.) The Hut experience is pretty similar to John's Brook Lodge. Joe Dodge feels a lot like the Loj except your meals are served in another building.

Enjoy

You should have no issues with your plans, beyond possible weather --but that goes without saying.

Peakbagger may not have had his coffee before posting this morning, your map will show you all the routes you could possibly take to get to Lakes, both from PNVC on the east side and from the trailheads at the Cog Railway hiker lot on the west side. Parking at both PNVC and the Cog Hiker lot are pretty safe and secure, you shouldn't worry about leaving your car, and as far as lots being full-- probably not a worry there , either, as long as you get an early start.

Sunday night at Joe Dodge, or any of the lodging places in Gorham or North Conway would be a plus, then you really COULD get an early start. Gorham is closer than North Conway , and remember that Joe Dodge Lodge has breakfast available even if you aren't an overnight guest, and they keep hiker hours. Beats Dunkin, McD or BK.

Typical summer weather pattern in the Whites, if it is is going to weather, means afternoon pop-up T-storms usually moving W to East, or SW to NE. unless it is an all day rain event. Once you top out above tree line, regardless of your ascent choice, you'll have no shelter until you reach Lakes. If you ascend from Pinkham side, often you have no visual clues that something is brewing simply because the spine of the Northern Presi's blocks your view of approaching cells. PNVC has ample internet service, you won't be without detailed weather forecast information as long as you choose to check.

If worst comes to worst, and Monday turns out to be snake eyes on the weather-- you can, as long as the auto road is open, ( don't laugh) drive your car to the summit of Mt Washington, park in one of the summit lots, make your dash down to Lakes Hut for the overnight, hike Tuesday , keep your overnight at Madison, and simply return to your car at the summit. Perfectly doable if not what you had in mind. Also, if weather comes in and plays havoc with you on Wednesday, there is a good chance that you could slog it from Madison Spring Hut to the summit of Mt W and catch a one-way shuttle down taking you directly back to your car at PNVC. Not what you had in mind, I 'm sure, but back-up plans and bail-out options for hiking in the whites are always a good thing to have, even if they do involve cash or plastic.

AMC hut croos are all radio connected to base, AMC, MWOBS , Mt Washington State Park and the Mt Washington Auto Road are all fully phone and/or radio connected, as are they all in phone proximity to USFS. While you can totally bypass and ignore all that support, it is there, and for really good reasons.

Hope you have a great trip !

Breeze

Lol Breeze. This is incredible advice and actually very sound and reasonable.
A friend of mine did the huts two summers ago and got caught in a thunderstorm between Lake and Madison huts. It was not fun, but something for her to talk about surviving after the fact.
This is a great back-up plan!
Re: Peakbaggers comments. Oh good. I thought I had my map upside down for a minute or was having some English language issues myself
You have all been incredibly helpful. Such a nice bunch, hiking folks are!

That what happens when I live north of the summit and have a RMC map in my mind (unlike most maps its faces south).

This place has an excellent reputation from through hikers
http://whitemountainslodgeandhostel.com/

peakbagger said:

Huntington Ravine Trail despite it looking like a nice option should not be done with a backpack on. It is borderline technical in spots.

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I second peakbagger's advice on avoiding Huntington Ravine Trail. I think pictures can provide better explanation than any words I could come up with: http://hikethewhites.com/huntington/index.html

If this is your first hike in White Mountains you may consider buying a $25 HikeSafe card ( http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/outdoor-recreation/hike-safe-card.html ) as you may not be aware that New Hampshire began charging some rescued hikers that it considered negligent for the cost of search & rescue, and HikeSafe card gives some protection in case of negligence but not recklessness. What exactly qualifies as negligence is not clearly defined and has been discussed at length on this site (see for example http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?55861-NH-Supreme-Court-upholds-Negligent-Hiking-Award )

What a great idea to issue 'stupid tickets'. I wish they would do that in the Adirondacks and also Grand Canyon National Park. There are some pretty ridiculous rescues. I will, however, read the links provided. We are fairly 'seasoned' hikers and my motto is "know your limit and hike within it". Thanks!

Just a thought if I may. Since your using the Huts, eliminating the "issue of camping high" I would suggest a second option. Stay at the bunkhouse at the at the Highland center Sunday night, then ascend via the Crawford Path to Lakes. This would give you Pierce, Ike, Franklin and Monroe, on day one. The next day, off to Madison, bagging Washington, Jeff, Adams and Madison. Of course this would set you down on the other side of the Range, so to speak, but the AMC shuttle runs from Pinkham to the Highland center, so maybe that could get you back. Further more, instead of the long grind from Madison to PNC, you could descend the north slope of the Northern peaks ie. Valley way, Airline, and grab the AMC shuttle back to Crawfords. This would give you a full Presidential traverse and a gem of a trip.

sierra said:

Just a thought if I may. Since your using the Huts, eliminating the "issue of camping high" I would suggest a second option. Stay at the bunkhouse at the at the Highland center Sunday night, then ascend via the Crawford Path to Lakes. This would give you Pierce, Ike, Franklin and Monroe, on day one. The next day, off to Madison, bagging Washington, Jeff, Adams and Madison. Of course this would set you down on the other side of the Range, so to speak, but the AMC shuttle runs from Pinkham to the Highland center, so maybe that could get you back. Further more, instead of the long grind from Madison to PNC, you could descend the north slope of the Northern peaks ie. Valley way, Airline, and grab the AMC shuttle back to Crawfords. This would give you a full Presidential traverse and a gem of a trip.

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Another option would be to park at Pinkham, take the shuttle at 7:30 and arrive at the Highland Center at 9:00.

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/lodging-shuttle.cfm