Bear "incident" on the AT
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sierra
Well-known member
When I was living in CO there was a similar incident involving a young camper being dragged out of his tent. They had hung thier food and had a clean campsite as they should have. Turns out, the conciencious young man, brushed his teeth the night before and to make it easier in the morning kept his toothpaste and brush with him while sleeping.
Stan
Well-known member
I didn't know bears practiced such good dental hygiene.
JCarter
Member
I always see advice to "don't sleep in the clothes you cook in". So, the protocol is you arrive in camp, set up, change into your special-reserved cooking clothes that you carry in your bear canister w/your food, make dinner, eat, strip down and put the cooking clothes, the food, the trash, and the toiletries in your bear bag/cannister before heading to bed.
Now, I'll admit I don't get out much, and it's really hard to imagine a bear being attracted to white gas + boiling water, but how many people REALLY carry a complete change of clothes (and that would have to include your inclement weather gear) that they use EXCLUSIVELY for cooking, and that goes in their bear-bag so that it's not near where you sleep?
Now, I'll admit I don't get out much, and it's really hard to imagine a bear being attracted to white gas + boiling water, but how many people REALLY carry a complete change of clothes (and that would have to include your inclement weather gear) that they use EXCLUSIVELY for cooking, and that goes in their bear-bag so that it's not near where you sleep?
iAmKrzys
Member
Not all bear attacks can be explained by careless handling of food or toothpaste. In a recent fatal mauling attack in New Jersey the bear went after the victim and was not interested in his food:
See http://www.northjersey.com/news/west-milford-bear-attack-victim-killed-by-mauling-autopsy-finds-1.1123061 for more details.
Mike P.
Well-known member
Do hammocks resemble low hung bear bags for food? When we stayed at a home in Gatlinburg, I was surprised that everyone had their trash cans in cages. I guess there are advantages to having noisy scouts scaring all the wildlife away.
When I hike out west, yes.
hikerbrian
Active member
It's a good question, and I personally don't think there's a right answer. It depends on the balance of the factors that determine the probability of whether or not you'll have a negative bear encounter. For the long (5-10 days between resupplies) backpacking trips I've done in AK and MT, I did NOT pack a cooking-specific set of clothes. Especially in AK, with so much food, multiple bear canisters, and requisite foul weather gear, I did not think it was worth it to add a set of cooking clothes. Instead, we were diligent in cooking and camping in a bear triangle, and we were extremely conscientious with respect to keeping ourselves clean. We also didn't cook bacon and tuna and the like.
These days, I'm more concerned about predatory black bear attacks. This year, for the first time, I may carry bear spray with me on my backpacking trips to the Whites. I too have heard stories of black bears attacking people because the person had something innocuous, like a piece of gum or a tube of toothpaste in their pocket. But it's pretty hard to say the person was attacked because of the scent of those items, as apposed to because the bear saw the PERSON as food (i.e. a predatory bear attack). It's pretty easy to deal a bear who wants to eat your food. Much harder to deal with a bear who wants to eat you. The NJ case is a prime example.
Scubahhh
Member
A friend attended a presentation on kayaking in northern Alaska. In a particularly high density bear area, the protocol was stop at one island, cook meals in designated clothing. leave the food and the clothing and then paddle to the next island to camp.
There is speculation that the black bear population down south used to kept in check by poaching for bear parts. it was a lucrative market. The fed finally started enforcing the laws and the perps switched over to other illegal pursuits. Apparently the past official practice with bear incidents down south was shoot first, this has now changed to shoot last meaning problem bears have multiple opportunities to get human habituated.
There is speculation that the black bear population down south used to kept in check by poaching for bear parts. it was a lucrative market. The fed finally started enforcing the laws and the perps switched over to other illegal pursuits. Apparently the past official practice with bear incidents down south was shoot first, this has now changed to shoot last meaning problem bears have multiple opportunities to get human habituated.
hikerbrian
Active member
So we have two apparently predatory black bear attacks in two years. It would seem the frequency is increasing in the past 15 years, but I haven't seen enough data points to make that case convincingly. Still, these attacks, combined with my experiences last year at front country campsites in NH suggest to me that a "bear problem" is developing in the northeast.
I can't remember if this report was linked previously, but here's a very good read for folks trying to make sense of black bear behavior, particularly the differences between defensive black bear behavior and predatory black bear behavior. Interestingly enough, it seems that for the majority of black bear mauling fatalities, food and hygiene practices are not a factor. Having food around one's campsite appears to be a factor in less than 40% of fatal black bear maulings.
I can't remember if this report was linked previously, but here's a very good read for folks trying to make sense of black bear behavior, particularly the differences between defensive black bear behavior and predatory black bear behavior. Interestingly enough, it seems that for the majority of black bear mauling fatalities, food and hygiene practices are not a factor. Having food around one's campsite appears to be a factor in less than 40% of fatal black bear maulings.
sierra
Well-known member
Other then hanging my food, I don't do much for bears in the east, they really are not a worry. Out west, if your north of CO, its a whole new ball game. I personally choose not to hike in Grizzly country.
To add a data point, NH F&G is on record that the bear population in the state of NH is about 1000 bears more than the targeted population. This means that hunting policy will be liberalized to increase the take of bears. This works in some areas but few hunters are going to hike into a remote campsite to hunt a problem bear.
When advocates of the no population management approach challenged the new policy the director of fish and game stated that the target population is the best effort at keeping a healthy population while offsetting wildlife human interaction. Generally folks tend to the "leave them alone" strategy until bears start actively raiding their trash cans, ripping holes in garage doors or raiding their crops. Hikers also have a change of attitude when chased by a bear into a shelter by a human habituated bear. The ongoing incidents at thirteen falls unless managed where bears are actively chasing campers will lead to one of two conclusions a dead bear or an injured hiker.
When advocates of the no population management approach challenged the new policy the director of fish and game stated that the target population is the best effort at keeping a healthy population while offsetting wildlife human interaction. Generally folks tend to the "leave them alone" strategy until bears start actively raiding their trash cans, ripping holes in garage doors or raiding their crops. Hikers also have a change of attitude when chased by a bear into a shelter by a human habituated bear. The ongoing incidents at thirteen falls unless managed where bears are actively chasing campers will lead to one of two conclusions a dead bear or an injured hiker.
DougPaul
Well-known member
Small sample sizes make convincing conclusions impossible...
For more info, read "Bear Attacks, Their Causes and Avoidance" by Stephen Herrero. http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-Causes-Avoidance-revised/dp/158574557X/ Herrero is also the source of some of the info in the above article.
Doug
When it comes to my food in the Whites, I worry more about mice than bears. When it comes to bears, I worry more about protecting them from people. Sadly, when a bear becomes a problem due to poor habits of people, it's the bear that really loses out.
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In the High Peaks region of the Daks you must use bear canisters and the bears there can be much more aggressive than those in the Whites. Having had an encounter with an habituated aggressive bear in the Daks I treat things very differently there than in the Whites, Greens, or Maine.
sierra
Well-known member
I guess I should have said in the Whites, as I do not hike in the Dacks at all.
Scubahhh
Member
I'm curious about bear "incidents" in the Whites. I've seen loads of bears on and around trails, but never any kind of "incident." In public campgrounds I've seen them wandering around and heard about some issues with their getting food left lying around. I imagine campground beard set about ax habituated as they get, but it doesn't seem like they actually succeed much.
Backpacking unusually hang my food a little distance from where imsleep, and I've never been aware of bears getting after it; and though I'm a light sleeper I've never heard anything poking around. I heparin anecdotes about them being pretty brash around Guyot, Liberty Springs, and some other very popular sites, but no first hand experience.
Can anybody there offer anything better than conjecture about bear/human interaction in the Whites?
Backpacking unusually hang my food a little distance from where imsleep, and I've never been aware of bears getting after it; and though I'm a light sleeper I've never heard anything poking around. I heparin anecdotes about them being pretty brash around Guyot, Liberty Springs, and some other very popular sites, but no first hand experience.
Can anybody there offer anything better than conjecture about bear/human interaction in the Whites?
I've had one bear incident, camping in the general area of the old Wilderness Trail Bridge past Bondcliff. The bear in question was named Brutus, was well-known by rangers...and was quite large for a black bear.
Turns out, there were three separate camps set within a mile of each other. One site, up the Thoreau Falls trails, had a man and his son who had their hanging food ripped out and stolen overnight. They never heard it at all, but saw the remnants.
Soon after it appears, he made his way to our camp. Now, in this case, we were 100% to blame. The 3rd night of a long trip in the woods, we got too lazy to clean up our camp. I was up early with my dog, while the other 5 campers slept in their tents. Brutus appeared out of nowhere, and wanted our pot of Spanish rice. The commotion of the dog barking and me yelling at him didn't scare him off, but when the rest of the campers woke up and he finally realized he was outnumbered 6-1 and not worth the hassle, so he scooted downstream.
About 30 minutes later, a solo hiker appeared in bare feet, carrying his boots and his pack. Seems Brutus came up from behind and stole whatever he was eating. He grabbed his stuff (he was already virtually packed) and got out of there. The man and his son appeared soon after and told us their tale.
When we got back to Lincoln Woods, we talked to the rangers and their comments were along the lines of "That sounds like Brutus. It may be time to put him down...". I believe he was eventually removed/relocated/put down. From stories I've heard, he had a good circuit of areas he would hit nightly and caused a lot of problems in the Desolation area, especially.
I've seen lots of fresh scat and my dog had her nose up on many occasions, but other than one running away well ahead of us, that was the only time in the Whites (see them more often around my house in Southern, NH).
Turns out, there were three separate camps set within a mile of each other. One site, up the Thoreau Falls trails, had a man and his son who had their hanging food ripped out and stolen overnight. They never heard it at all, but saw the remnants.
Soon after it appears, he made his way to our camp. Now, in this case, we were 100% to blame. The 3rd night of a long trip in the woods, we got too lazy to clean up our camp. I was up early with my dog, while the other 5 campers slept in their tents. Brutus appeared out of nowhere, and wanted our pot of Spanish rice. The commotion of the dog barking and me yelling at him didn't scare him off, but when the rest of the campers woke up and he finally realized he was outnumbered 6-1 and not worth the hassle, so he scooted downstream.
About 30 minutes later, a solo hiker appeared in bare feet, carrying his boots and his pack. Seems Brutus came up from behind and stole whatever he was eating. He grabbed his stuff (he was already virtually packed) and got out of there. The man and his son appeared soon after and told us their tale.
When we got back to Lincoln Woods, we talked to the rangers and their comments were along the lines of "That sounds like Brutus. It may be time to put him down...". I believe he was eventually removed/relocated/put down. From stories I've heard, he had a good circuit of areas he would hit nightly and caused a lot of problems in the Desolation area, especially.
I've seen lots of fresh scat and my dog had her nose up on many occasions, but other than one running away well ahead of us, that was the only time in the Whites (see them more often around my house in Southern, NH).
jfb
Active member
One night while camping in the Great Gulf, with my food hanging in a bag about 100 ft. from my tent, I thought I heard a bear breathing near my tent. (I've heard that sound before at Feldspar leanto when a bear stole my pack right out of the leanto one night.) The noise sounded a bit like two tree branches rubbing together. After a minute or two, I picked up a metal pot and spoon and started banging them together. (I kept them handy just in case.) The noise stopped. I never found any evidence of the possible bear.
