New AMC Hut in Crawford Notch???

The AMC has proposed to build a new full service hut in Crawford Notch. They will be holding informational sessions and also welcome your comments.

Link: http://www.nhstateparks.org/whats-happening/news-events/press-release-details.aspx?newsid=40193

The link to the scoping letter is a 404, and I haven't been able to guess the correct link. Anybody else have better luck?

http://www.nhstateparks.org/uploads/pdf/Crawford Notch AMC Hut Scoping Letter.pdf

Tim

I was just reading about this on FB. Seems to me it will give those that don't want to go all the way from Zealand to Mizpah an option that doesn't include a stop at the Highland Center.

Interesting, well see how this plays out for the WMNF, C-Notch State Park and any impact it may have on the Pemi areas that are not to far away.

I would like to see this hut charge significantly less than the others. This one is proposed to be very near the road and in much more hospitable climes than its counterparts. Just as Lakes and Madison, justifiably due to their rugged and remote locations, charge somewhat more than the other existing 6, I think this one should cost somewhat less than those 6 due to its proximity to 302 and the relative ease of getting supplies and materials in and out.

As to whether it should go in or not, I don't have a strong opinion, but would lean in favor of this proposal, broadly construed.

This will reopen the wounds of the Twin mountain and other tourist businesses in that area that AMC is getting a free ride. It is interesting that the organization has shifted away from its policy that they enacted after the EIS debacle about only building on club owned land. Given the location, I expect they will have plenty of large donors that will want to participate. Having another easily accessible hut good for families is probably a target and being able to avoid federal regulations of the operations is probably real attractive to the club.

As Driver8 pointed out, this one is close to the road....really close. It appears, as PB mentioned and I agree, they are really targeting families with this one. I can imagine this being a late afternoon or early evening destination hike after a car ride from more populated areas. Drive up, park, hike an hour to the hut and you are in the woods. Lonesome Lake and Carter Huts are popular family destinations due to the easy hikes in, however this one will be half of that effort or less. It doesn't really serve as a base to hike deeply from since it's not far into the forest.

PB brings up a good point about other businesses in the areas and some sore feelings. I wonder what impact this would have - the lodging in Twin Mountain is a different price point than an AMC Hut I would think, but for those who would normally drive up and drop some money on a hotel in North Conway for the night where $100/night is easier to find, this hut may look good.

Personally, I think the hut system is a really unique and wonderful thing in the Whites (for the most part). I get far too claustrophobic in tight crowds at the end of a hike filled with solitude though, so I tend to fill with water at the huts, smile at people, and get on my way before too long.

I do question the proximity to the road though. It puts this hut in a category all its own in terms of making it attractive to hike to after a long drive. That may be by design, and this hut may be located to meet a different "need." Hopefully, the families will be careful heading up Willey.

The comments about thru-hiker accommodations are fairly non-committal I noticed. Maybe they will be planning another "dungeon" of sorts.

Anyone off the top of their head know the last hut built and the year?

1888 - Madison
1914 - Carter (originally a log cabin, 1904)
1915 - Lakes (originally a shelter, 1901)
1929 - Lonesome
1930 - Greenleaf
1932 - Galehead
1932 - Zealand
1964 - Mizpah


From Wikipedia.

Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

1888 - Madison
1914 - Carter (originally a log cabin, 1904)
1915 - Lakes (originally a shelter, 1901)
1929 - Lonesome
1930 - Greenleaf
1932 - Galehead
1932 - Zealand
1964 - Mizpah


From Wikipedia.

Tim

Click to expand...

Thanks Tim. So 50+ years since a new hut was built.

I'd say it's about as hard as Lonesome or Zealand although Zealand is further from the road, especially in winter. I can see it being another alternative to Zealand in winter.

Twin Mountain wasn't just decimated by the Highland Center, some bad snow years & high fuel prices made for bad snowmobile years while slope side accommodations and the increasing cost of ski weekends helped too.

Working with the State Park & assuming the hut is in the State Park may avoid some of the USFS discussion that went on during the re-chartering (not the official name)

Maybe, with more traffic, maybe they'd re-do the Willey Range trail up Willey. With no switchbacks it's the course water takes too.

A few more details (but not much).

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx...would-lease-site-in-crawford-notch-state-park

As long as public access is retained and the state makes a buck I don't see a major backlash to this with the qualifier that its on 100% state or private land. Add in the USFS and all bets are off.

peakbagger said:

As long as public access is retained and the state makes a buck I don't see a major backlash

Click to expand...

The details are really thin, but I'm having a hard time seeing this as a bad thing for NH. Something extra in the state park (which gets overshadowed by the NF). NHSP probably gets a cut and the general fund gets the meals and lodging. I'm less convinced it's a good thing for the AMC and the Whites: I think AMC's a bit overextended on trails as it is. I'm not sure what this business of "four season trail to Zealand Valley" is; how would this nebulous trail differ from the Ethan Pond trail, which already gets plenty of ski use? From the scoping letter and the powerpoint, it doesn't look like they're actually going to build a parking lot, just harden the shoulders of the road up to the trailhead so people can park alongside.

I'm not a Hut guy, I'm not an AMC guy either. That being said, the one thing I do like about this potential new hut is that it has it's own trail and you don't have to hike by it, if your not going to it. If the final vote rested on my shoulders though, you would not see the hut built. Not that that would happen in this lifetime.

The AMC would have to get a "four season trail" permitted on USFS land. Not an easy thing. I also appreciate that the hut is on spur versus right on the AT. I will be curious if AMC get a short term easement to haul in supplies or if they plan to copter it in.

I really don't get the location they have chosen. You have the Highland Center right up the road and if that's not your thing you have Zealand Hut. It would almost make more sense to build something off the road verses out in the backcountry in that location. I'm just trying to picture how this Hut would be advantageous to trip planning in that area. I know there is a wide fan base for huts, but I think they have enough already. When is enough, enough, if they get this one, where is the next one going?

Thinking this makes the Zealand to Mizpah along the AT more manageable for the non-thru hikers. It may keep some of the people who might go plan multiple days with Zealand & Mizpah by giving them a hut in between Vs. the Highland Center and may make the Highland Center more hotel like. (I know, Ritz Crawford, etc., I do like staying in the bunkhouse)

Because it's in the State park, it may be an easier negotiation that it was with the USFS when the other huts were being renewed. I'm indifferent to it as it's not really in an area I visit often being more of a peakbagger / view junkie. I hear you Sierra, when is enough, enough? Which movies can we quote to ask that question or answer it? (On Deadly Ground or Willy Wonka for an answer - "I want it Now" or some other movie, I want more than enough, Is that the Capitalist dream....??@*&#)

What it comes down to is that AMCs member base is getting old and they are trying to develop facilities that are of interest and readily accessible to their older members and just as importantly to their potential future members which are families. I wouldn't be surprised if the trails in the area are upgraded to handicapped accessible. Both Zealand and Lonesome lake are promoted as family friendly but weren't necessarily designed for that use. I expect that the proposed hut is going to be closer to the Maine Huts and Trails huts model than the current AMC designs. AMC also has a large donor base who likes to have their name on projects and I expect that there may be some high end donors already lined up. A project like this generates revenue and justifies staff for the club and interest. Unlike the Maine expansion, which is out of sight and out of mind to the southern new England media, Crawford Notch is within the sphere of the Mass media which means that AMC can get initial and ongoing media boost. The same applies to their member base, a hut in Crawford Notch is within a two hour drive of the core of their membership who are far more likely to visit Crawford Notch than the 100 mile wilderness.

Just my opinion, and it's worth little, but I wouldn't want to see any new huts built. I like the tradition that has been in place since I cut my teeth here in 1994. Most trails in the WMNF are very well maintained and there aren't too many restrictions and rules and laws etc... New projects such as these often produce unintended consequences that impact those who would never use the facility in the first place. For me, I believe in Forever Wild. I don't abdicate removal of what is currently in place, contrary I would rather see the funding go into updating what is in place. Maybe it's just me, but I'm feeling like AMC is pushing real hard for some breakthrough projects and I just don't agree. I may be a flatlander, but how many do you know who loves this area enough to wake up at 330am and drive 350 miles only to return home after a 20hr day? There aren't many places on this planet like our White's. I like em just how they are.

Hut business must be good if AMC wants to build another one in the White Mountains