Gray to Marcy: A Costly Bushwhack Is Closed Definitively

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The thing with the Adirondacks is that they are close to a city with 1.6 million people, plus Burlington, etc....Their popularity and use are steadily increasing. I had to park a mile and a half away from the LOJ when I did MacNaughton last summer because everything was so full. Sometimes I would get frustrated about this, but then I always say to myself "well, I'd rather see North Americans outside enjoying and appreciating nature, exercising, etc, than flocking to the mall or watching the Kardashians."

The question is how to rectify all the use the herd trails are getting and I think many of them need to be re-rerouted to allow re-vegetation, and perhaps official maintained trails put in that can be monitored and taken care of regarding erosion, etc....Cliff Mountain would almost be easier to bushwhack at this point the herd trail is so muddy and decimated (at least it was when I did it two years ago).
 
Like TFR, guilty as charged, many times. The trouble with the example that Trail Boss provides is the subjectivity. I too have traversed the route when the tips of trees were barely visible. But also times in mid summer when following what was then a barely visible herd path. The connector has to either be closed and enforced, or turned into a trail ( a shame IMO ). A stewards of the mountains we can't leave it up to individual judgment as to whether it's the right time of year to go without damage.
 
SpencerVT said:
...I think many of them [herd-paths] need to be re-rerouted to allow re-vegetation, and perhaps official maintained trails put in that can be monitored and taken care of regarding erosion, etc....Cliff Mountain would almost be easier to bushwhack at this point the herd trail is so muddy and decimated....
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ROTFL! Forgive me! You mean the unmarked trails should get the same degree of care as the existing marked trails?

You have seen the marked trails, right? Ever walk the heavily-used Calamity Brook trail? How about the Bradley Pond trail? Been to Feldspar lean-to via Lake Arnold? Elk Lake to Panther Gorge or Dix? How about Wallface Ponds?

All are marked and maintained trails ... to Adirondack standards which means memorably muddy and rugged (i.e. eroded). The trail crews do the best they can with the available resources; the budgets aren't bottomless. Frankly, the unmarked path to Cliff is in better shape than the marked trail to Wallface Ponds. Here are two (of several) Adirondack-class mud holes along the way to Wallface Ponds:


IMG_2935


IMG_2941

The unmarked trails do get light maintenance by trail-adopters and are categorized as Class 1 (or is that Class 2) trails in the UMP. I can see minor re-routing as a possibility but a complete closure and establishment of a new route? Unlikely. Just the red-tape to ratify the change and incorporate it into the UMP would be enough to stymie the most ardent proponent. Even if it were to happen, the new route would have to be built to a completely different standard of trail-hardening. Hell, even the marked trails don't get this degree of TLC so it seems improbable that an unmarked trail would get it first. Perchance to dream.
 
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Peakbagr said:
Like TFR, guilty as charged, many times. The trouble with the example that Trail Boss provides is the subjectivity. I too have traversed the route when the tips of trees were barely visible. But also times in mid summer when following what was then a barely visible herd path. The connector has to either be closed and enforced, or turned into a trail ( a shame IMO ). A stewards of the mountains we can't leave it up to individual judgment as to whether it's the right time of year to go without damage.
Click to expand...

As with anything, there are a lot of people that don't like to be told what they can and cannot do. The best way to get compliance is to make people believe they have a choice and are freely choosing to avoid an activity. In this kind of case, when appeals to environmental and safety concerns fall on deaf ears, it seems like the best situation is to either rigidly enforce with stiff penalties, or to accept that people will go this way regardless and to work to mitigate their impact. It seems to me that the latter is more likely here. Just because something is reasonable doesn't mean most people will act accordingly. Sometimes we have to work with what we have and forgo the ideal.
 
Trail Boss said:
ROTFL! Forgive me! You mean the unmarked trails should get the same degree of care as the existing marked trails?

You have seen the marked trails, right? Ever walk the heavily-used Calamity Brook trail? How about the Bradley Pond trail? Been to Feldspar lean-to via Lake Arnold? Elk Lake to Panther Gorge or Dix? How about Wallface Ponds?

All are marked and maintained trails ... to Adirondack standards which means memorably muddy and rugged (i.e. eroded). The trail crews do the best they can with the available resources; the budgets aren't bottomless. Frankly, the unmarked path to Cliff is in better shape than the marked trail to Wallface Ponds. Here are two (of several) Adirondack-class mud holes along the way to Wallface Ponds:


IMG_2935


IMG_2941

The unmarked trails do get light maintenance by trail-adopters and are categorized as Class 1 (or is that Class 2) trails in the UMP. I can see minor re-routing as a possibility but a complete closure and establishment of a new route? Unlikely. Just the red-tape to ratify the change and incorporate it into the UMP would be enough to stymie the most ardent proponent. Even if it were to happen, the new route would have to be built to a completely different standard of trail-hardening. Hell, even the marked trails don't get this degree of TLC so it seems improbable that an unmarked trail would get it first. Perchance to dream.
Click to expand...


I hear you - the trail out to Wallface Ponds was very muddy last year. Unlike Cliff though it was more overgrown than eroded.
Since budgets aren't bottomless, volunteers aren't unlimited, and red tape abounds, I don't know what the solution would be. All I know is that thousands of people on Cliff and Allen Mountain is going to reach a breaking point at some time and either things will become closed or people will just bushwhack a re-route until a new herd trail is formed.
I do a lot of trail volunteering here in southern Vermont and we're always working on bridges, but that's another topic...
 
SpencerVT said:
... the trail out to Wallface Ponds was very muddy last year. Unlike Cliff though it was more overgrown than eroded.
Since budgets aren't bottomless, volunteers aren't unlimited, and red tape abounds, I don't know what the solution would be...
Click to expand...

I hiked Wallface Ponds trail twice in the last two weeks and, by Adirondack standards, my assessment is it's eroded and hardly overgrown. A portion of it follows an old tote road (plenty of visible corduroy) and is easily 6+ feet wide with little overhanging vegetation. Most of it looks and feels like walking in a brook. My first trip on this trail was in 2010 and nothing has changed except for broader, longer mud holes and more distinct herd paths skirting them. It has a wonderful feeling of remoteness and for good reason because you're only likely to meet other bushwhackers heading to MacNaughton or Lost Pond Peak. It's lack of popularity is probably what keeps this trail "under-maintained".

SpencerVT said:
...Since budgets aren't bottomless, volunteers aren't unlimited, and red tape abounds, I don't know what the solution would be...
Click to expand...
Here's an unpopular solution to reduce the number of hikers in the High Peaks:

Eliminate official recognition for hiking the 46 Adirondack Four Thousand Footers.
  • Enjoy hiking them but you'll get no tangible awards or recognition.
  • No name on a list.
  • No number.
  • No patch.
  • No reward except fresh air, exercise, camaraderie, and some great views.

It probably wouldn't work but not due to a lack of a carrot. The ADK 46ers considered doing this decades ago and concluded some other organization would simply spring up in their place.
 
I don't really think there's anything that can be done to roll back the clock on the number of people chasing the 46. It's like a mathematical equation with the number of 46Rs directly corresponding to the exponential rise in the number of aspiring 46Rs. More people finishing equals more people talking about them both in real life and on the internet. And more people talking and writing means more people hearing and reading. Live time trail conditions information abounds. The 46 have been de-mystified and you really can't go back from that.

IMO, the 46Rs are doing exactly the right thing as a Club in terms of focusing on the mission of environmental stewardship even as 46Rs themselves make one "personal exception" after another.
 
Puma concolor said:
...even as 46Rs themselves make one "personal exception" after another.
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Bah! It's not limited to 46ers making so-called "personal exemptions". Winter hikers heading to the summit of Marcy or Algonquin don't necessarily follow the marked trail (cairns). They may veer off by accident or on purpose to make a beeline to the summit. These "winter herd-paths" often cross frozen cripplebrush and alpine plants. In early winter, the snow depth varies and hikers occasionally end up trodding on (and breaking/crushing) trees and sedges. Microspikes, crampons, and snowshoe crampons do a fine job of tenderizing exposed vegetation. The damage become evident in spring when the monorail melts. Not nearly as destructive as summer hikers but, hey, winter hiking is growing in popularity.

Brendan Wiltse wrote a piece in Adirondack Almanack and I recall a few commenters using words like "Enviro-fanatics", "Insane", and "Baloney". http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2015/02/are-snowshoes-microspikes-damaging-alpine-zones.html
 
Time for a wonderful quote from a post on another (somewhat coarser) forum:

"I feel an internet-wang-slap fight coming on, for serious. Myah?"
 
Here's an idea:

Keep the 46rs recognition the same, but add 46 hours of trail work on the 46 as a requirement for recognition. I think we'd see a sharp decline in number of completers and a sharp improvement in all the trails. There could even be one fun caveat that for 3 of the 46 volunteer hours you only had to work between 52-55 minutes for it to count as a full hour!
 
SpencerVT said:
...add 46 hours of trail work on the 46 as a requirement for recognition ...
Click to expand...

I believe it was Pete Hickey, of the ADK 46ers, who explained (about 2 years ago on ADKhighpeaks forum) why this idea wouldn't fly. Effectively, you are obligating aspiring 46ers to work, some of them are children, and NYS labour laws disallow child labor. There may have been more to it but, based on my recollection, that's the gist of it. Sorry, I can't find the original thread.


FWIW, the first two pages of this thread discuss the history of herd-paths leading to the so-called "trail-less peaks" and their transition to unmarked, minimally-maintained, official trails.
http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/forum/hiking/adirondack-mountain-hiking/13733-why-why-why
 
Couple of points - Back issues keep me from trail work. Bending, stooping, holding any kind of weight in front and it's 3 days of limping around. Constitutionally, I couldn't just stand by and let people lift logs, lever rocks and carry heavy stuff, so I avoid it and volunteer to help the mountains in other, less visible ways. I greatly value the work of Pete Hickey, Joe Bogardus and the 46r trail crew, and the volunteer trail workers and the ADK professional trail staff, but it's not something I'm able to do.
If the 46ers were to make it a requirement, then most would just get patches from friends and they'd be unrecorded.
 
Which has more cachet then?? Having your name recorded and visible on the web or having the patch? I've got 4 AMC patches, but you won't find my name recorded anywhere publicly for completing those four lists. The Single Season Winter 48 records names, but doesn't issue patches, and then the grid and redliners do both.

Tim
 
bikehikeskifish said:
Which has more cachet then?? Having your name recorded and visible on the web or having the patch? I've got 4 AMC patches, but you won't find my name recorded anywhere publicly for completing those four lists. The Single Season Winter 48 records names, but doesn't issue patches, and then the grid and redliners do both.

Tim
Click to expand...
I think most want the patches. I could be wrong. Does being on a list with 9,000 others really give you a rush?

Back to what Alan said, there are those that can serve in other ways. Or make donations. We can all do something...
 
Tom Rankin said:
Back to what Alan said, there are those that can serve in other ways. Or make donations. We can all do something...
Click to expand...

I think giving money to a cause makes people feel good about themselves, but in the case of alpine flora, it doesn't really help that much, if at all. The summit steward program has been around a long time and the area they manage is neither growing nor shrinking. As the saying goes: "They got this."

It just seems to me that you have to pick one side or another. You are either an "Adirondack Explorer" out to climb every mountain from 100 different directions trampling what you may or a conservationist who sticks to the established routes. You really can't have it both ways.

Personally, I only "use" the Adirondacks as a winter training ground these days and quench my own need to explore by going elsewhere.
 
bikehikeskifish said:
Which has more cachet then?? Having your name recorded and visible on the web or having the patch? I've got 4 AMC patches, but you won't find my name recorded anywhere publicly for completing those four lists. The Single Season Winter 48 records names, but doesn't issue patches, and then the grid and redliners do both.

Tim
Click to expand...

Cachet with whom? Most of the people you run into think your crazy. (The NH & New England patches adorn my dresser, If I'm on a list, I never see it) When I'm with other hikers at lodges, summits, trailheads or junctions and we converse, I like knowing where they've been & being able to share stories with others who have the same interests and have been to the same places. My wife gave up looking at pictures of rocks and trees as they look the same. (I've learned if the kids are in the shot, all of a sudden it's a nice picture. I may photo-shop them in some of the other 100's & see if it works for those too....:D)
 
46ers seem to be proud of their number, in my experience. The AMC doesn't really issue an exact number, although supposedly they were going to try and number everybody. It is not all that hard to come by an AMC patch (or probably and ADK 46er one) but it would be harder to get into the database - you could obviously lie on your application but I imagine it's easier to be found out by the crowd if your name appears in a sequence.

Tim
 
I see more ADK patches but still don't see many on the trails.

Lying about is actually worse if you hang out in hostels and pubs in the middle of nowhere. If you do a few and then try and lie, sooner or later you'll run into a 46er or a 115er and when they ask, "what's your hardest or most memorable & they you say Washington or Marcy because they are the tallest or Killington, they'll likely be found out.

We all like the taller peaks but outside of Katahdin, most people like either the more remote peaks, fond memories of long trips, seeing few people, a memory on Owl's Head or Isolation in NH, How tough was their Couch or Allen trip. Talking about Allen without the brook crossings, the slide or purple slime. Once your suspicious, you can get them to rant about how great the view from Cabot's summit or Zealand's summit was....:D ;)
 
Who would lie about such a thing? And why would calling Washington, Marcy or Killington the hardest or most memorable expose you as a potential fibber? All three are way high up there on memorable list for me although Allen or Owl's Head or Reddington might rank higher on the most difficult list.
 
Of course, if you need to blaze a direct route between Gray and Marcy because it's too long to go all the way around, well, that's a different matter.
 
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