Water Treatment

DayTrip said:

I clicked through to this site and there is a notice that they do not make this anymore.

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Not true.
https://www.survivalmonkey.com/threads/polar-pure-now-back-on-the-market.49519/

The one-man operation apparently has not updated the website. After being manufactured and sold without change for many years, it was indeed taken off the market for about 4 years because the DEA thought the pure iodine could be used to make drugs. Argghhh. It was frustrating because the BSA High Adventure Trek Program has been using it in the Adirondacks since 1979.

However, PolarPure is now finally back on the market. I think there is a restriction on how many bottles you may purchase at one time (thanks DEA). I recently bought a spare bottle from Amazon (in case DEA changes its mind again), so I know for a fact that it is available.

http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Pure-Di...UTF8&qid=1439428223&sr=8-1&keywords=polarpure

DayTrip said:

Between the recent AMC warning about water quality near NH/ME border and now a few posts on hiking forums about becoming ill in other areas I'm wondering if the increased hiker volume the past few years is to blame or if it is a naturally occuring bacteria to blame for the recent "outbreak". Does anyone have more info or links to more details on the situation? I guess my big question is if a water filter is not getting the current bacteria out of water what else short of boiling the water can be done in a reasonable time frame (don't tablets take hours)?

I don't filter water a lot but I've been doing longer hikes/some overnights and part of keeping the pack weight down hinges on water management. I use a Sawyer filter and haven't had any issues. Curious what everyone's "routine" is for water treatment.

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For water, my routine is:

1. I carry the water I need on most day hikes.
2. If I have to fill on a day hike, I opt for huts or known clean sources first.
3. I have a Katahdin filter and will carry it periodically. I use this on overnights with my daughter as I won't give her iodine.
4. I carry iodine tabs periodically as well and use them when needed, but sparingly.
5. Whether treated or not, I choose water sources carefully and always reference a map to see where the source is coming from. In other words, I'm not drinking water from the streams coming by and below the huts and popular sites. If a source comes off the mountain where there are no "establishments" above me, I'm more likely to drink it.
6. I don't touch water from spring boxes anymore, like the one on Signal Ridge. No way.
7. I will drink untreated water only on occasion now; I used to drink untreated water often and simply chose my sources carefully, but the use in the Whites in just too high now.
8. Given a choice, I would drink untreated water before grabbing a handful of trail mix out of some other hiker's ziplock bag though.

An important consideration is to remember is that illnesses like giardiasis which come from a cyst will not affect all who use the source. Cysts do not necessarily spread evenly throughout the source and if you fill 10 bottles at a source, only those bottles actually getting a cyst can potentially harm you. This is different than things like soluble pollutants that spread evenly through the water and contaminate all of the water. In other words, if you and I each fill a bottle at a source containing giardia cysts AND say a soluble pollutant, we both will get the same amount of solute, but..............we both may get the cyst, maybe both of us do not get the cyst, or maybe one of us may get the cyst.

As I have noted in the past, there are some GI effects from use of Polar Pure for a portion of the population for extended use (week long hikes) . There also are some medical effects on the thyroid for long term use (30 days plus) that also seems to limit the ability of a small portion of the population to use it. I haven't seen any published studies so this is anecdotal. I.E. the local med center used to deal with sick south bounders and one question was type of water treatment. If Polar Pure they would recommend an alternative due to thyroid issues. As for the GI effects its personal experience and the experience of others I have talked to over the years. I wouldn't worry about either case for weekend warriors.

They say there is no such thing as a dumb question, so permit me to test that theory. In reading this thread, I really like that Aquamira product and plan to try it out. My question is this. I share all my water with my dog, would this water treatment leave me any concerns as to its safety for my dog?

I don't think so, unless the dog tries to slurp up the mixed components while its reacting. When it forms the CLO2 give off a very strong chlorine odor while it turns green that I expect would be unpleasant to the dog. It ultimately breaks down to salt so I expect there isn't a dog issue. I suppose the other thing to consider is if the dog regards the A&B containers as chew toys. They are fairly rugged but not designed to be chewed on. The two components have no odor but I don't know whats in them. I think one component is light acid compound.

Thanks peakbagger, sounds like if I wait for the treatment to work it will be fine. As far as chewing the bottles, I'm lucking, my dog would NEVER touch anything of mine. He has his toys and that's it, I guess I'm lucky in that regard.

A weekend warrior with a shellfish allergy would likely have a problem. One of the things shellfish have that cause reactions is iodine. Something to keep in mind if you're in a group or offering water to someone you don't know.

peakbagger said:

As I have noted in the past, there are some GI effects from use of Polar Pure for a portion of the population for extended use (week long hikes) . There also are some medical effects on the thyroid for long term use (30 days plus) that also seems to limit the ability of a small portion of the population to use it. I haven't seen any published studies so this is anecdotal. I.E. the local med center used to deal with sick south bounders and one question was type of water treatment. If Polar Pure they would recommend an alternative due to thyroid issues. As for the GI effects its personal experience and the experience of others I have talked to over the years. I wouldn't worry about either case for weekend warriors.

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Nessmuk said:

On the other hand, PolarPure, being pure elemental iodine crystals, has an indefinite shelf life. One small bottle should last long enough to treat up to 2,000 liters of water. I've had the same bottle for more than 20 years, and it is still good with plenty of crystals remaining, and I have never had any problems treating water. Tastes like iodine, but it is effective and extremely simple to use, and there is no fussing around with pumping or batteries or mixing of multiple chemicals.

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I tried the home-built equivalent (a small bottle with iodine crystals) and had some concerns with the concentration. (I also have a bottle of Polar Pure somewhere, but don't use it.)

I have not had this problem with USP tincture of iodine* (about 1/2 elemental (free) iodine** and 1/2 sodium iodide in a water and alcohol solution). A drop supplies ~1mg of elemental iodine, so 2-8 drops/liter creates a 2-8ppm solution. The preferred concentration depends on the cleanliness of the water, the temperature, and the contact time. (See Wilkerson, et al for details.)

* Elemental iodine dissolved in alcohol would be better, but tincture is much more available and of controlled concentration.
** Only the elemental iodine is active for water purification.

USP Tincture of iodine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tincture_of_iodine

BTW, crystaline iodine will evaporate directly into the air, so it will disappear if the container is not sealed well.

Doug

DougPaul said:

BTW, crystaline iodine will evaporate directly into the air, so it will disappear if the container is not sealed well.

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Very true, as I remember from my days of making NI3, good stuff for practical jokes (it goes pop in a small explosion when physically disturbed) back in the day when it was fun to do that kind of thing. Leaves a purple stain though.

The iodine in PolarPure is kept stable by being constantly underwater. The usual dose is two capfuls of the saturated solution as it comes out of the bottle, but if the water to be consumed is questionable I will use 3 capfuls. Another important factor is water temperature. Both of the water in the PolarPure bottle, and of the water you are treating. The normal "room temperature" wait time is 30 minutes, both when recharging the bottle with a new supply of water, and also when treating drinking water, but could be much longer and/or more capfuls needed if it is cold.

... If you use a water purifier like a First Need Pump you eliminate the bacteria, cysts and viruses including giardia and cryptosporidia. ...

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Filter media, in common water filters, has a pore-size of about 0.1 - 0.2 microns (100 - 200 nanometers). That's adequate for blocking the passage of bacteria, cysts and protozoa such as giardia and cryptosporidium.

Wikipedia states common viruses range in size from 20 to 200 nanometers. Aside from marketing claims, a 100 nanometer filter may block some but not all viruses.

That's why the combination of filtration and sterilization (chemical or UV light) is likely to produce a more "purified" product.

I've used a Steripen and a Sawyer Mini filter (separately). The Steripen is fast but the water shouldn't be turbid otherwise you need to prefilter it (coffee filter/bandanna/whatever). Most running water in the Northeast is clear enough. I now use a Sawyer Mini because it eliminates "floaters", needs no batteries, and is faster and more convenient especially when used with a hydration bladder (Steripen works best with a bottle).

Nessmuk said:

The iodine in PolarPure is kept stable by being constantly underwater.

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More likely the sealed glass bottle... (Iodine will most likely evaporate from a water solution as well as directly from solid.)

The usual dose is two capfuls of the saturated solution as it comes out of the bottle, but if the water to be consumed is questionable I will use 3 capfuls. Another important factor is water temperature. Both of the water in the PolarPure bottle, and of the water you are treating. The normal "room temperature" wait time is 30 minutes, both when recharging the bottle with a new supply of water, and also when treating drinking water, but could be much longer and/or more capfuls needed if it is cold.

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The problems had nothing to do with following the directions. It had to do with the color of the saturated solution varying depending upon the source of the water. While the variation in the color may not be a problem, in the absence of an informed explanation it does not make one feel confident.

Doug

DougPaul said:

More likely the sealed glass bottle... (Iodine will most likely evaporate from a water solution as well as directly from solid.)

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Well that is certainly beyond the obvious that iodine evaporation (really it is sublimation) to the open air can't occur when in a sealed bottle.

Though I submit that evaporation from a water solution would be far slower than with the crystals exposed directly to air. The small amount of water in the bottle quickly becomes saturated with iodine in solution, keeping the remaining crystals stable. Exposure of iodine in water to open air results in far less iodine loss than that of dry crystals in open air. The water also keeps the crystals from becoming more easily powdered from agitation as would happen if crystals were agitated in air, which would dramatically increase surface area to expedite sublimation.

Nessmuk said:

Well that is certainly beyond the obvious that iodine evaporation (really it is sublimation) to the open air can't occur when in a sealed bottle.

Though I submit that evaporation from a water solution would be far slower than with the crystals exposed directly to air. The small amount of water in the bottle quickly becomes saturated with iodine in solution, keeping the remaining crystals stable. Exposure of iodine in water to open air results in far less iodine loss than that of dry crystals in open air. The water also keeps the crystals from becoming more easily powdered from agitation as would happen if crystals were agitated in air, which would dramatically increase surface area to expedite sublimation.

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My point was that the sealed glass bottle is the important barrier preventing the iodine loss. The water may or may not affect the rate, but is unlikely to stop it.

Doug

Regarding iodine, if solid and NOT contained, it will sublime (turn from solid directly to gas with no melting ala dry ice) and be gone.

If it is dissolved in water to form a saturated solution that is NOT covered, the maximum amount of iodine will dissolve in the water until saturation is reached. At this point solid iodine will remain on the bottom of the jar. The iodine will continue to sublime, albeit at a slower rate from the liquid solution directly into the air. When it does so, the solid iodine on the bottom of the jar will dissolve to regain the saturation point. As long as the cap is off, the iodine in its solid, aqueous, and gaseous phases is not in a state of equilibrium and will continue to be lost.

If there is a cap on in either situation, equilibrium will quickly be reached between the phases.

With no cap, the iodine is going to go away. In water it will be slower.

The only thing I know about Iodine is that it decays to Xenon and that's why Chernobyl exploded. I filter my water.

jfb said:

The only thing I know about Iodine is that it decays to Xenon and that's why Chernobyl exploded. I filter my water.

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Just for clarification, the isotope Iodine-131 is radioactive and therefore decays. The iodine used to purify water is not radioactive. Most elements have atoms of slightly different masses; iodine has a number of these isotopes as they are called. Some isotopes are radioactive and spontaneously decay to form other elements releasing huge amounts of nuclear energy in the process. Iodine-131 is one such isotope. It is not of concern for water treatment which uses the common, stable isotope Iodine-127.

jfb said:

The only thing I know about Iodine is that it decays to Xenon and that's why Chernobyl exploded. I filter my water.

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Raven said:

Just for clarification, the isotope Iodine-131 is radioactive and therefore decays. The iodine used to purify water is not radioactive. Most elements have atoms of slightly different masses; iodine has a number of these isotopes as they are called. Some isotopes are radioactive and spontaneously decay to form other elements releasing huge amounts of nuclear energy in the process. Iodine-131 is one such isotope. It is not of concern for water treatment which uses the common, stable isotope Iodine-127.

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In fact, supplemental iodine (presumably iodine-127 ) was used to protect people exposed to radioactive fallout from Chernobyl... (It blocked absorbtion of radioactive iodine.)

A small amount is required--the recommended dose is ~150 micro-grams per day.

Iodine is also not nearly as toxic as many think--a dose of 2 or more grams or more is required to be lethal. Typical doses for water treatment are 10mg or less per liter of water.

More info can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine

Doug

DougPaul said:

In fact, supplemental iodine (presumably iodine-127 ) was used to protect people exposed to radioactive fallout from Chernobyl... (It blocked absorbtion of radioactive iodine.)

A small amount is required--the recommended dose is ~150 micro-grams per day.

Iodine is also not nearly as toxic as many think--a dose of 2 or more grams or more is required to be lethal. Typical doses for water treatment are 10mg or less per liter of water.

More info can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine

Doug

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Yes, and the reason salt has been "iodized" for many years...precisely to get people the iodine needed.