Old Format for Trail Conditions Reporting

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I've been a member since well before the crash but don't really post a lot because what's the point? If it's something I know I might answer, but others usually beat me to it. If it's something I don't know I am happy to ask. The level of expertise here is much higher than other boards. Otherwise I limit my posts to congratulating good photographers and those reaching goals like NE111 or NE Hundred Highest.

I miss the old days of VFFT, posters like Poison Ivy and unadogger, but I appreciate the signal-to-noise ratio here. And I've gotten consistently good advice on a wide variety of issues.

For work reasons (and also some nagging personal doubts) I will not participate on Facebook. So this is really the only NE hiking source I trust. I hope there is still a purpose for it. I appreciate all the work Tim does and would hate to see this wither away.
 
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This is very interesting. I remember my brother suggesting using VFTT about 10 years ago to look at trail conditions. I kept using it as a resource and eventually felt like I could give back so I started posting trail condition reports for my hikes. I find it very helpful, and try to be helpful in return. I prefer the more open format as I am generally looking for recent trips. I like that TrailsNH aggregates the trip reports. I find it funny that some people post their TRs to multiple sites and then they all pool there.

I use a private FB group to organize hikes with friends and some random acquaintances. It's easier than sending out tons of text messages (or making phone calls, for you people with landlines). As far as an organized forum though, I much prefer this UI.

Tim - thanks for your work to keep the site up. I'm glad our donations are doing the trick. The lack of ads is very nice.
 
And I'll add a few. VFTT inherited folks from the un-moderated AMC forums. People who trolled or just couldn't stand anyone suggesting they ease up a bit in their posts. Darren came within a whisker of killing VFTT when this forum was much more central to hiker's sport's lives. The result was the referral system so people who went out the back door didn't come back in again. You can't imagine some of the things we were called here, in email and PMs. IMO the forum was tightly moderated because it had to be. With the departure of troublemakers, some by their own volition the need for moderation eased. Dave, Tim and I try to let threads and members work things out and it's hard to remember the last time the mods had to step in, as it should be.
Social media is taking it's toll on forums of all types. For VFTTers who feel there should be more discussion - post and begin threads.
 
I also have some reasons why facebook doesn't work well for me. Its a bummer as I do miss many of the long term VFTT folks who have migrated but not enough to justify spending even more hours on the computer.

As mentioned earlier VFTT.com was the first active large scale viable hiking forum in the region, along with Dave Metsky's site is all most needed and compared to AMC it was far easier to participate in activities. There was definitely a wild card for every activity, normally the group was equally matched, but on occasion someone would appear that was woefully incapable. Usually it sorted out and there was always a rotation of folks into and out of the groups as well as occasional social drama that any adult group will eventually experience. Bert's early on attempt to connects faces with names by instituting the Gatherings which became annual really ramped things up for quite a few years but eventually they got to big to handle and turned into a turn off for many. In the early years, it was common to see carloads of folks show up at Gatherings who had read the forum and wanted to see what the group was like and many hung around.

Moderation was and still is a contentious point to some to the point where this was a major schism in the site with a significant block shifted to ROT. The approximately two to three year period where approval of new members effectively stopped was probably the biggest impact to site activity. Old members went away and new ones couldn't join. I used to run into comments on other forums that VFTT used to be a good site but now they were snobs for not letting anyone in. After the shift to .org the momentum didn't return as alternatives popped up even though new member signup became very quick.

The one thing I always liked about VFTT events was the randomness of the group. It was a great way to meet folks from all places who shared common interests. Folks who use Facebook comment to me that they tend to hike with the same group more often, that has its value but unfortunately over the years the groups tend to shrink without new blood.

Meetup is definitely a convenient contender for new hikers and unfortunately the actions of some group leaders and trip leaders really deservedly draw poor publicity for meetup. Unfortunately anyone with a credit card can start a group and there is no training required. Even large groups who claim they have standards routinely ignore them. At least two large new England based meetup groups unofficial policy is that if someone points out breaches of etiquette respond by banning the person who brought it up. One particularly infamous group blocks public access to their trip listings so they don't get as much flack from outsiders. Despite the leader being AMC trained his approach is he will do as he darn well pleases. Unfortunately the convenience of Meetup is its downfall, many groups list events very early, weeks or months in advance and their members are trained to sign up first and ask questions later, many people routinely sign up for multiple events on the same day and then chose one to attend without changing their other reservations. Thus the number of dropouts is high and turnover in the last few days of the hike is intensive. I can lead hikes for two meetup groups, one very social but definitely beginner to intermediate and very slow placed and the other one intermediate to advanced. When I post hikes, they tend to be to less popular spots and rarely do I post a hike more than four or five days in advance. I expect at least half the folks who sign up will drop out and will have some "no shows" the day of the event. I do have some access to vet hikers but it is limited and usually end up e-mailing follow ups to determine hikers capabilities. Many leaders don't want to do this so there is a theory to let a large group sign up and assume many wont show, that works sometimes but if its nice weekend and popular hike, next thing you know is there a group of 30 heading into a wilderness area. The standard lie is they break into groups of ten but the reality is its one big group that ends up on the summit as they all started at the same place and hiked the same trail. About all I can do on my hikes is limit my group size and if someone is a "no show" and doesn't contact me I mark them as such and if I see a "no show" listed for someone signed up for my hike, they might get waitlisted. I know of a couple of trip leaders who just remove people with "no shows" from the sign up. The reality is that if its not a 48 the number of meetup hikers interested in the trip drops by 90% and anything north of RT 2 or east of North Conway except Cabot is even less popular.
 
A couple of points on this subject. I remember the AMC forum's, they were great when I started using them, but they turned into a nightmare of personal attacks. I think the AMC was right to terminate that mess. I've been a member of a few sites since then, the longest two, VFTT and 14ers.com. 14ers.com is a wealth of 14er info and it's a great site in that regard. The guy who run's it, Bill Middlebrook, built a great site content and structure wise for sure, and he is quite adapt in the CO backcountry. It is a lot more contentious then VFTT, there is much more freedom of speech and you see some wild thread drift and kind of wild west of opinion's, personally I like it. VFTT has a lot of skilled members that's for sure. I've been consistently in the backcountry for 35 years, since my early teens, and yet I hear members here talking about timeframes along those lines years wise, that's a lot of experience. Questions posed on this site get great answers consistently and you can tell the answers are based in solid field experience. I do wish this site got more traffic, not sure how to increase that. I do use FB alot, I just enjoying talking about the mountains. Being a social introvert, FB at least has the traffic that keeps me interested, although it doesn't come close to the skillsets you find here. The problem with social media is many think time talking about mountains is time gaining experience, hardly. Nothing except maybe climbing with a guide or very experienced climber replaces time in the field. If you climb Washington in the winter, you learn, if you climb it 30 or more times in the winter, you learn a lot. I'm a soloist both here and out west, so sites like this give me a chance to hear from others who are out there, even though I rarely meet any of them. I still enjoy hearing "trail talk" and really like hearing about some of the amazing feats being done, stinkyfeet, daily and other's here, even in my heyday I could never match some of these feats, but they are fun to hear about.
 
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And I'll add a few. VFTT inherited folks from the un-moderated AMC forums. People who trolled or just couldn't stand anyone suggesting they ease up a bit in their posts. Darren came within a whisker of killing VFTT when this forum was much more central to hiker's sport's lives. The result was the referral system so people who went out the back door didn't come back in again. You can't imagine some of the things we were called here, in email and PMs. IMO the forum was tightly moderated because it had to be. With the departure of troublemakers, some by their own volition the need for moderation eased. Dave, Tim and I try to let threads and members work things out and it's hard to remember the last time the mods had to step in, as it should be.
Social media is taking it's toll on forums of all types. For VFTTers who feel there should be more discussion - post and begin threads.

As someone (a non member) who lurked trail conditions for a long time and stayed away from the other forums, I missed most of that time of heavy trolling, moderation, and historical schisms. I have been told some stories.

I think the moderators do a great job here. Two things I've noticed are true. One, we self moderate very well here, whether by editing our own comments to remove the edge in some cases or when senior, wiser members step in with a gentle hand and a reminder that we are not on "that type" of forum. The moderators keep a nice loose grip on that and rarely have to step in. They set a tone, senior members maintain the tone, new members are welcomed and shown what is considered the norm here. Most of us go outside that norm periodically when a topic is brought up that involves lots of passion and opinion. We don't discuss snowshoeing, gun-toting dogs very often with good reason.

Like many things, it take some time to get to know the environment of VFTT, what is socially accepted here, and when you are out on a bit of a limb. I go out on that limb sometimes, but I know how much weight it can hold here.

The second thing I've noticed here is that I have seen senior members step in and guide new members in their postings here as opposed to bashing them or ignoring it. There are members in this thread who have done that favor for me in the past when I was new, and I have done so for others. It helps to remember that when someone's experience comes from a less moderated forum, they may have a tendency to defend themselves. You don't need to do that here, and that may take getting used to before someone lets their guard down. The positive, embracing, and teaching mentality here ends up in a stronger forum with people quickly gaining an understanding of just what level of emotional correctness needs to be maintained on this board.

It's what I now have come to believe has the most value for VFTT and maybe why this forum continues. If left un-moderated and totally open to anyone joining, it would lose the very value it gets from being a place where most of the advice and opinions given are backed with experience and knowledge. Simply, it would fall into the mix of all other forums. I also like the fact that there a bunch of people on this forum whose knowledge extends FAR beyond hiking gear, backcountry knowledge, and good routes. It adds a level of background knowledge here that is simply absent on most other forums.

Cheers to the moderators and those senior members who have long set a tone of open and respectful conversation while leaving it wide open enough for people to add personal opinion and self moderate as needed.
 
As a non fb user, I have relied almost exclusively on VFTT the past ten years. As a long time (35 years) recreational (non-lister) hiker I have learned a lot, and enjoyed most of the discussions, I will echo the appreciation for the general civility and depth of knowledge found here. I do gravitate to trailsnh in winter as I am looking for the most current conditions. I am also a minimal poster as many people beat me to the punch and I try not to repeat. Thanks to all of those who started and maintain, and moderate the site, and to all those posters who have help me become a better hiker. I hope the site lasts a long time.
 
I've been a member since well before the crash but don't really post a lot because what's the point? If it's something I know I might answer, but others usually beat me to it. If it's something I don't know I am happy to ask. The level of expertise here is much higher than other boards. Otherwise I limit my posts to congratulating good photographers and those reaching goals like NE111 or NE Hundred Highest.

I miss the old days of VFFT, posters like Poison Ivy and unadogger, but I appreciate the signal-to-noise ratio here. And I've gotten consistently good advice on a wide variety of issues.

For work reasons (and also some nagging personal doubts) I will not participate on Facebook. So this is really the only NE hiking source I trust. I hope there is still a purpose for it. I appreciate all the work Tim does and would hate to see this wither away.

Thanks, Dan -- I'm still here albeit I need to dust off some cobwebs. :D

IMHO VFTT is the hands-down BEST source of trusted info on the White Mountains! Sure there are others sources, but crappy beta posted here is quickly weeded out.

FB is OK but again, IMHO, there is no substitute for searchable data, accountability, and community.

Hoping to be hiking and posting more now that my work life is moving in a less "live to work" and a more "work to live" direction.

Happy Trails
 
Hoping to be hiking and posting more now that my work life is moving in a less "live to work" and a more "work to live" direction.

Happy Trails

Sounds like you're going to the dogs, so to speak. Welcome back!
 
life is moving in a less "live to work" and a more "work to live" direction.

I got a suspicion that that the pups do their best to reinforce the work to live approach
 
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