Is it possible to be a long-term hiker without resorting to lists?

I like hiking new places and the sense of adventure that being somewhere that you do not know brings. For that reason lists are great. Not to mention the fun of opening a tube and reading the notes of those before beats the shoes off many of the "views" folks seem to hunger for. There are a number of peaks I would and have climbed multiple times but honestly I don't ever need to go to Franconia Ridge or to Washington again. Who needs or wants to be in those crowds? That to me is not hiking. It is more like making a Buddhist Pilgrimage. I am happy to see more folks getting out and appreciating nature. Whether they are list conscience or not but those chasing lists tend to spread out their impact and I think that is a very good thing. I like chasing new trails and finding new places. I think a list makes the discipline of going somewhere new each time much easier. For instance I also fish more than I hike. On each day I try and force myself to fish a new spot, brook, pond ect. However without the goals being listed I do find that I return too often to certain familiar favorite places.
I guarantee I would never have hiked the Eustis area if I had not been working on a list. And I would have missed out on some of the best hikes and experiences that I have had. This summer I have only got out 8 weekends but I only saw 9 people on the trails or mountains that I was hiking. And I saw 7 of those on Snow Cupsuptic the other 2 at E. Kennebago all on the same weekend. The other 14 days we met nobody other than scribbles in a log. So there might be some big positives for chasing a list or two if your into that kind of thing. When I was young I loved running trails and was obsessed with how many miles per hour and how many miles in a day. That changed over the past 30 years but my love of being in the mountains did not. Perhaps without that competitive push when I was young I would not be hiking today. Just saying I make no judgments about who hikes where or why and I don't care if they list what they have done or not. If it is helpful to them then great. If you don't need it then great. Its all good.
To each their own and more power to them.

Without a reason, I won't put in the effort to go out the door (and once I do, I appreciate it.) So it was the 48, then the 67, then the NEHH. Now I'm loosely working on redlining and 48x4, but other reasons to hike include trail work, getting in my coleads, now helping other people get in their coleads...

It's somewhat the same reason I sign up for races: it provides an extra reason to do something I want to do anyhow.

I set out hiking this past weekend with no particular destination in mind when I shouldered my pack. Each trail junction meant a choice of direction, not a predefined plan Come late afternoon, I found a nice campsite (one I had noticed years ago but never passed by since), enjoyed the light of the full moon, and wandered back home in the morning. I've never been a "bucket list" person, but lately my hikes have been less and less preplanned, and I like it that way.

This is how my question came about:

I went up north last week and stopped by the art studio of a hiking friend on the way up, and she asked me what I was hiking, and I told Tripyramids and Hancocks. She somewhat sniffed and said, "Are you checking them off the Grid?" [which I was!]

It got me thinking: I don't go out hiking to check mountains off a list; I go out hiking because I love hiking! But the Grid keeps me going to certain mountains I otherwise wouldn't, to be certain. That being said, if someone asked me to hike something I couldn't check off a box, I wouldn't think twice about doing it, and every now and then I intentionally hike something I check off a spreadsheet just to remind myself of which way the causal arrow travels.

Still, I see mountains as something more than just objects to be "bagged,"--a term that truly bothers me, rightly or wrongly.

I guess I'm just working through some ambivalence.


Brian

I see "conquered" a lot on Facebook. Bagged doesn't bother me quite as much as conquered does. In the grand scheme of mountains, the Whites are easily day-tripped by a majority of people. While they have their challenges and dangers, they are not mountaineering and they are not the Himalayas or Karakorams.

Tim

B the Hiker said:

She somewhat sniffed and said, "Are you checking them off the Grid?"

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Did she offer any kind of rebuttal/alternative that she thought you might enjoy more, or was she just putting you down? I believe the 'hike your own hike' mantra should apply. If you like what you're doing, then good for you. If you feel burdened by it, then find something else that makes you happy. From what I can tell, you sound like you're just happy to be in the mountains, which sounds about right to me.

B the Hiker said:

Still, I see mountains as something more than just objects to be "bagged,"--a term that truly bothers me, rightly or wrongly.

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I don't think you should be bothered by the term as you see mountains as something more.

To me, "bagged" is another way of saying a mountain was hiked or climbed if it were on a "list" I was working on. I mainly use that term around other hikers whereas I might use "hiked" or "climbed" with non-hikers, depending upon which was more descriptive of my experience. Otherwise, I generally think of "climb" as possibly involving technical gear though many scrambles are a climb to this 30" inseam.

I'd never use "conquered" in terms of a mountain but might use it ... for example ... " ... he conquered his fear of heights and won fair maiden in the process." Sounds like the ending of an awful cock novel, doesn't it. That's how "conquered" sounds to me when used to describe a mountain.

B the Hiker said:

she asked me what I was hiking, and I told Tripyramids and Hancocks. She somewhat sniffed and said, "Are you checking them off the Grid?" [which I was!]

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She may have felt that hiking up those small peaks was not much of a reason to drive all the way from CT.

bikehikeskifish said:

I see "conquered" a lot on Facebook. Bagged doesn't bother me quite as much as conquered does. In the grand scheme of mountains, the Whites are easily day-tripped by a majority of people. While they have their challenges and dangers, they are not mountaineering and they are not the Himalayas or Karakorams.

Tim

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I'm not a fan of "conquered" myself. IMO, I am not beating the mountain. On the contrary, it is allowing me to climb its flanks, slowly revealing the route to its summit. It's a connection between the mountain and me, not a battle to be won.

To me it's not man against nature, but rather man with nature.

There are many who will hike list and once completed, do a few more then move on to other endeavors. Some will love the quest more then the mountains they climb, it is fun to do. When I hear comments like, Hale is awful, I'll never go back, I chuck those people into the list or views category. The only other list I've ever worked on besides the 4k's, is the CO 14ers, once again, I loved checking off mountains as I went. The major difference though, is I'm a lot older and I love mountains now for what they are, not where there listed. That's why I'm not done the 14ers yet. While climbing them, I've seen other peaks in my travels and had to have them, some 13ers, some 12ers. I put the list on the back burner when I feel like it. The people who are list driven can be of two types ( or more ) The list lover, who lives for just the list and the hiker who just loves hiking so why not work on list while out there. While I'm not into list in NH, there are two that I respect others doing. Redlining and the Grid. I think it's highly unlikely to complete either without having a love for hiking that burns deep. Although, that being said, I have no doubt there are some who without the list, would not do neither. As far as " conquering" a mountain? I don't believe in that at all. Any high peak in adverse conditions can kill any human regardless of how great they are. When you successfully climb a peak, it's because things on that day worked out for you. I've soloed Washington many times in the winter, I've also failed on the peak as well. I'm a well versed climber, very experienced. But have I conquered Mt. Washington ? No, I've climbed it, but if that mountain was in a bad mood, it would conquer the shit out of me.

sierra said:

No, I've climbed it, but if that mountain was in a bad mood, it would conquer the shit out of me.

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Yeah, as Raven's implied, if it ever really comes down to man against Nature, Nature's going to win everytime.

Heck, she'll win eventually, against each of us, one way or the other.

Raven said:

I'm not a fan of "conquered" myself. IMO, I am not beating the mountain. On the contrary, it is allowing me to climb its flanks, slowly revealing the route to its summit. It's a connection between the mountain and me, not a battle to be won.

To me it's not man against nature, but rather man with nature.

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+1 The notion of conquering a mountain is facially absurd as I see it. Communing with it, visiting it are more like it.

I'm sure others join me in this: out on a hike, of whatever mountain or trail of whatever dimension, I experience each trip as it comes and for the most part try and let expectations shape that experience only so far as necessary.

Example: Hale. I loved that mountain. It was an overcast day, with a ceiling high enough to see every available White peak. On the dark side, in the deep green forest, it verged on gloomy, and I found it gorgeous. Something about the mountain seemed silent, sullen, contemplative, and this sort of fit with my mood that day. I likely wouldn't have hiked it but for its being on the 48 list, so I came to it somewhat as a chore, a self-improvement exercise, meeting a goal. I didn't expect to bond with the mountain so pleasantly as I did. But I'm glad that it happened. I'm glad it's on that list and look forward to visiting it again someday.

Likewise with Waumbek and Starr King. One of the more beautiful hikes I've enjoyed, full of happy surprises. Others, expected to be delightful, end up less so. Mt. Field on a hot, humid day was a thorough working over, and the views were mediocre, less than I'd hoped - day afforded 40 miles, and the brush obscured most angles. Box of chocolates, as Forrest Gump said.

The list has caused me to learn a lot more about the Whites than I might otherwise have and to see sights I might not have. Works for me.

The answer to your thread title question is YES. I do not keep track of my hikes. This past Sunday on my way through the mountains I decided to do a quick jaunt up Caps Ridge and decided to turn around at the highest cap. Was a great quick hike in perfect weather, and I had no need or ambition to go to the top. I will hike till I drop and am always looking for new areas to explore in SW NH. I do not hate the lists, but I do dislike hearing people brag incessantly about how many peaks they've done. I've said this before, but I'll repeat it here, I once had the pleasure of working with a fellow hiker, and we'd chat about hiking and he'd listen with interest when I talked about what I'd done. Only later did I find out that he was one of the 1st Grid finishers, and he never mentioned it in all of our chats. That impressed the crap out of me!

Quietman said:

The answer to your thread title question is YES. I do not keep track of my hikes. This past Sunday on my way through the mountains I decided to do a quick jaunt up Caps Ridge and decided to turn around at the highest cap. Was a great quick hike in perfect weather, and I had no need or ambition to go to the top. I will hike till I drop and am always looking for new areas to explore in SW NH. I do not hate the lists, but I do dislike hearing people brag incessantly about how many peaks they've done. I've said this before, but I'll repeat it here, I once had the pleasure of working with a fellow hiker, and we'd chat about hiking and he'd listen with interest when I talked about what I'd done. Only later did I find out that he was one of the 1st Grid finishers, and he never mentioned it in all of our chats. That impressed the crap out of me!

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That's a cool story. Part of me wants to go that way, but part of the enjoys the collecting aspect.

For me, the lists got me into hiking. I hiked with my family every summer growing up, so I had already done a few big hikes. Then I read Following Atticus. Got the idea in my head that I should finish the 4Ks. So I worked on that for a season, and loved it. Every hike had something magical, but none of those moments were at the summit! Well, except for Garfield I guess.

Would have finished the next year, except for those life altering interruptions called pregnancy and child rearing. Now I have a two year old, and am loving taking her on the smaller hikes. Many are repeats for me (I even repeated a list peak! Because you can take the tram back to the bottom haha). I can't wait till she's ready to hike mt major with me on her own two feet for the first time. Then she can start working on her own lists! And maybe, she will come with me when I finish my 4Ks at last. It will take longer than I originally intended, but just imagine all the ground I'll have covered on other trails with my companion in the backpack! And how much richer my time in the woods will be for having shared it with my daughter.

Quietman said:

The answer to your thread title question is YES. I do not keep track of my hikes. This past Sunday on my way through the mountains I decided to do a quick jaunt up Caps Ridge and decided to turn around at the highest cap. Was a great quick hike in perfect weather, and I had no need or ambition to go to the top. I will hike till I drop and am always looking for new areas to explore in SW NH. I do not hate the lists, but I do dislike hearing people brag incessantly about how many peaks they've done. I've said this before, but I'll repeat it here, I once had the pleasure of working with a fellow hiker, and we'd chat about hiking and he'd listen with interest when I talked about what I'd done. Only later did I find out that he was one of the 1st Grid finishers, and he never mentioned it in all of our chats. That impressed the crap out of me!

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That is a funny story, good for him. Reminds me of an ascent I did of Washington one winter. I got sandbagged by weather on my descent coming down Boott Spur, lost the unbroken trail and bushwacked down to Route 16, coming out at 2.00am or so. Got home at 5.30am, dehydrated, exhausted and beat to death. My Mom walked into the kitchen, looked at me and asked, How was your hike today? Fine Mom, nice day to be out.

It is a very funny thing, made clear by psychology that tells us we have the strongest memories of the events to which we have the strongest emotions, that we tend to remember the trips that went...not quite right.

I can't deny it: I hate getting halfway up a mountain and having to turn around. I hate it. Even when I was living in Southie, it's still a heck of a drive.



Attempted a winter Presidential traverse one time and we got blown off the mountain. Or at least, our tent almost did. A strap connecting the tent vestibule to an ice axe buried like a dead man snapped, vestibule went up in the air, torquing the main tent pole, which snapped. We had to go down. En route, goggles froze over, only time I ever wore my big down jacket while hiking, and not just while stopped, and it was a challenge.

Left me with one of my best memories! Plus, this photo won me a "Choss Boss" title from the American Alpine Club "Best Sufferfest" photo.

Still, it would have been nice to complete that traverse....


Brian

I was on Grinell Glacier at 3 years old. (Yes, I had a bit of help and even still remember the view down into a crevasse.) I eventually completed the NH 4Ks, but it took over 30 years because I lost interest and only completed it after a friend raced through the list and inspired me to discover that I only had a few left.

I still hike and, at least in my case, the one list had very little to do with my being a life-long hiker. My interest is much deeper than any list...

Doug

1) When I was much younger, I didn't particularly enjoy hiking for it's own sake. I wanted to get up to where the views were (I used to tell my friends I enjoyed getting high). Hiking was what I had to do to get there. Nowadays, I don't get to the views so much, but have learned to enjoy the hiking more, even if it doesn't result in a view or a summit.

2) Was I time when my hiking was very list (NH48) focused. Haven't completed the list, but it's still a goal, maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't. But the hikes are no longer list focused, or only to the extent of a probably futile exercise in getting in good enough shape to finish what I have left.

3) When I am fortunate enough to reach a summit, I figure the only thing "conquered" are my own shortcomings (procrastination, lack of perserverence, being out of shape, etc).

TomK

Here's one thing I think about sometimes...why keep doing round-after-round of NH/New England lists when there are...
...1500 miles of trails in the White Mountains region
...59 national parks in the US
...155 national forests in the US
...several dozen national monuments that have excellent hiking
...50 state high-points
...100s of amazing state parks in the US
...100s or even 1000s of amazing conservation lands in the US
...extensive BLM land
and the list goes on...

I love the variety of terrain in the US! Perhaps the best in the entire world....