WMNF New Schedule of Proposed Actions (SOPA) 10/1/2015 to 12/31/2015

Link: http://www.fs.fed.us/sopa/components/reports/sopa-110922-2015-10.pdf

The septic system is an interesting one. I was hiking years 15 ago with Gene Daniell and the subject of rare alpine plants came up at some point, he related a conundrum that AMC had. AMC was actively reestablishing colonies of rare plants out of harms way to the areas that hikers typically would not traverse. One of their great successes with one of the particularly rare species was the establishment of a new colony. Unfortunately it was discovered that one of the reasons it was thriving was that the LOC septic system was leaking. I never tracked it down to get independent confirmation.

peakbagger said:

The septic system is an interesting one..

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I thought Lakes collected waste (solid and liquid) in 50 gal drums and then helicoptered it out at the end of the season because it was too cold at that location for biomass composting.

Is the septic system mentioned for gray water only?

cb

I think the flying drums are long gone, logistically I can envision dealing with the volume that would be generated over a season. I am not sure of the configuration but there is fairly large structure downhill from the hut and some intermediate structures that appear to be at least part of a waste disposal system. I have a sketch of the Lake of the Clouds Special Use Permit boundary from the hut re-permitting book and it shows a septic system associated with these structures and an interestingly a line heading out of the special use permit boundary from the large roofed over structure downhill from the hut. I don't have details on the LOC system but the Madison Hut System appeared in the same book to have a small leach field and then a downstream perforated pipe with a chlorine doser. I would speculate that the LOC separates out the solids for additional treatment and then just doses the liquids with chlorine and lets it filter down through the rocks. The re-permitting was in 1998 so they may have changed the systems over in the intervening years and believe they have installed composters that work very well with solids but basically drain liquids to a downstream device. I expect that its not just gray water but urine along for the ride. Assuming they aren't dumping toxic chemicals down the drain I expect that the BOD in the liquid wastes rapidly degrade in what I expect is fairly deep layer of fractured rock.

OMG.

I'll never look at Gem Pool the same way again.

cb

Also of note is the renewal of the AMC's permit to operate the huts, which supposedly opened for consideration last July and is winding up. I remember it being a much bigger production last time.

jniehof said:

Also of note is the renewal of the AMC's permit to operate the huts, which supposedly opened for consideration last July and is winding up. I remember it being a much bigger production last time.

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I guess they learned their lesson in 98 that trying to mess with the local economy behind the scenes can cost them a lot of time and money plus make them a "poster child" for the evil of state influence by green groups. Various conservative groups got a lot of mileage out of this the last time around.

jniehof said:

Also of note is the renewal of the AMC's permit to operate the huts, which supposedly opened for consideration last July and is winding up. I remember it being a much bigger production last time.

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This is actually for the shelters and tent sites. The Hut permit is for 30 years, so it won't be up until about 2028.

ChrisB said:

OMG.

I'll never look at Gem Pool the same way again.

cb

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It's funny you said that. I hike the Ammo now and then and since I got a dog and he drinks natural water sources. I've contemplated the possibility, then the water flowing from lakes may not be that safe to drink. Almost posted that here as a new thread.

I have seen speculation in the past that Raymond Cataract has never had a trail and the reason may be that there is natural drainage course that arises in the alpine garden from the summit that may have in the long ago past also acted as a drainage from the summit including sewerage.

RMC used to hang a sign in the Log Cabin to treat the stream in front of it as the stream was downstream of Gray Knob and the Perch and at times it could be contaminated. Unfortunately the sign was only visible to those inside the hut and I have seen many folks fill up assuming its a safe water source.

Of course all of this debate it more of an "ick" factor then a real concern. Any drainage from Lakes or the RMC cabins are in theory chlorinated then well diluted and aerated long before anyone might drink from it. As long as someone or their companion animal has a healthy immune systems its highly unlikely they will get sick, I expect those with a unhealthy immune system probably aren't hiking the Ammo.

If you want to see the research that backs up treating all backcountry water sources, this appears to be a fairly exhaustive list of citations

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthr...untry-water-quality?highlight=water+treatment

I guess that's good news, but it still irks me. I mean that's a beautiful stream, but I guess it's the AMC, so it's ok.