http://www.unionleader.com/article/20151110/NEWS07/151119944
I expect that unless he bought a hike safe card, he is going to be writing a check to F&G
I expect that unless he bought a hike safe card, he is going to be writing a check to F&G
Recent Rescue on Washington
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DayTrip
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It never ceases to amaze me how many people do this. If you are even remotely interested in hiking and even remotely aware of Mt Washington you should never venture out like he did. Yet every few months they're plucking another one off the mountain. No amount of signage, brochures or advertising can compensate for this level of indifference and cluelessness.
Quietman
Well-known member
Why didn't the hikers tell him to hike down the road and why couldn't he figure that out on his own?
Gee, what would be the safest and easiest way down?
Glad he made it out safely.
Gee, what would be the safest and easiest way down?
Glad he made it out safely.
Raven
Well-known member
Quite a bit more....NHF&G averages 180 missions a year based on the past three years or so. Not all are on Washington of course, but quite a few are. I've got a jar of peanut butter that says they break 200 missions this year. Any takers?
Tom Rankin
Well-known member
I assume because his car was on the other side. I hope that thought crossed his mind, but obviously, the choice was made to head towards the car. If I were him, I would have just followed the tracks, reasoning that the tracks can't possibly be too steep anywhere, and even if there was a bridge, it would be clear of trains.Why didn't the hikers tell him to hike down the road and why couldn't he figure that out on his own?
Gee, what would be the safest and easiest way down?
Glad he made it out safely.
Bob Kittredge
Active member
"Take the Nelson Crag Trail"??! What were they thinking? Rough, steep, exposed and very lightly traveled. Well, I suppose it's better for descent than Huntington Ravine.
Stan
Well-known member
Curious why anyone well prepared would leave anyone so unprepared out there on their own. Wonder if the case for negligence should be extended here?
DayTrip
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I meant Washington specifically and incidents of the "clueless" variety, not legitimate accidents by prepared hikers. But yes it seems like an almost daily occurence nowadays. I just can't wrap my head around how/why a person would just go climb a mountain without any thought to what to bring or how you're going back and forth.
egilbe
Member
Maybe we should stop rescuing clueless people and let their dead bodies remain as a monument to their effort. You know, like they do on Everest
Sadly, we all have to learn sometime. While I agree there is a lot more education today than in year's passed, but many of have made a mistake, potentially deadly one, before.
TDawg
Well-known member
I assume you mean the two hikers that pointed him down Nelson Crag.
If that is the direction we're going with the negligence thing, then don't expect so much as a "hello" from me as you pass. I'll be the guy pretending not to see you...
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I assume you mean the two hikers that pointed him down Nelson Crag.
If that is the direction we're going with the negligence thing, then don't expect so much as a "hello" from me as you pass. I'll be the guy pretending not to see you...
While the legal statute is clear, that you are under no obligation to help one in need, there is a moral obligation to assist another human being that is often followed. Not sure I could just ignore someone in that situation, personally.
I've had to walk people out who were lost, and helped someone who was never going to make it back to the Reel Brook Trailhead by having them follow me down into Franconia Notch, where I drove him back to the trailhead. Didn't give it a second thought.
Stan
Well-known member
I assume you mean the two hikers that pointed him down Nelson Crag.
If that is the direction we're going with the negligence thing, then don't expect so much as a "hello" from me as you pass. I'll be the guy pretending not to see you...
Unfortunately, too much of our society chooses to "not get involved". In my experience that attitude is inversely proportionate to the distance from urban centers.
I don't know what the legal implications are of ignoring someone with My. Nguyen's plight but, at the very least, any claim to reputation as an outdoorsman would be forfeited.
TDawg
Well-known member
Before I get painted as an asshole I understand the moral side and would help if someone clearly was in trouble (hypothermic, injured, etc.) Getting to the summit expecting the Cog and not having it is not an emergency.
We don't know the conversation had up there or to what degree the hikers knew how over his head he was. So to suggest the two hikers in question also could be negligent is a slippery slope, IMO. He could have refused an escort or brushed off their attempts, who knows.
They pointed him in a direction down (be it a questionable one,) he was still on two working feet, what more?
Also, reading the article I am not assuming the two hikers he met at the summit were the same two he tried to follow and lost.
We don't know the conversation had up there or to what degree the hikers knew how over his head he was. So to suggest the two hikers in question also could be negligent is a slippery slope, IMO. He could have refused an escort or brushed off their attempts, who knows.
They pointed him in a direction down (be it a questionable one,) he was still on two working feet, what more?
Also, reading the article I am not assuming the two hikers he met at the summit were the same two he tried to follow and lost.
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Far too many visitors to Mt Washington think of it as One Place. Like going to the Empire State Building in NYC, or LL Bean in Freeport. One Place. One entrance, one exit, as long as it is Mt Washington, it is One Place. The Auto Road, The Cog, and all the trails are simply One Place. It isn't possible in that mindset, that Cog base is 55 miles from PNVC, or the Jewell Trail doesn't bring you back to Pinkham Notch. It is, after all, Mt Washington. One Place.
That is not something that can be fixed unless the visitor wants to learn otherwise, and, sadly, many must find that stuff out from a place of believing they knew what they obviously did not.
Some things you cannot fix, and thats where NHF&G and Mike Pelchat, Mike's cadre at MWSP, and the AMC croos and all volunteers all around Mt Washington Valley come in and say, hey, lets get you outta here alive. You may not like the bill that comes with that, but, at least you are alive to pay it.
When you see the cognitive dissonance present in the visiting population, its pretty frightening.
That is not something that can be fixed unless the visitor wants to learn otherwise, and, sadly, many must find that stuff out from a place of believing they knew what they obviously did not.
Some things you cannot fix, and thats where NHF&G and Mike Pelchat, Mike's cadre at MWSP, and the AMC croos and all volunteers all around Mt Washington Valley come in and say, hey, lets get you outta here alive. You may not like the bill that comes with that, but, at least you are alive to pay it.
When you see the cognitive dissonance present in the visiting population, its pretty frightening.
I for one got TDawg's off the cuff statement. Also let's not assume that the people on the trail other than the rescued knew any better. Going up Washington can be a lot like swimming in a bowl of froot loops. All hikers might be round with a hole in the middle but they are not all the same color.
Also let's not assume that the people on the trail other than the rescued knew any better. Going up Washington can be a lot like swimming in a bowl of froot loops. All hikers might be round with a hole in the middle but they are not all the same color.
Stan
Well-known member
Hope my comments weren't interpreted as painting with that brush, TDawg. Just think of this as a friendly inquiry but perhaps critical of a "not get involved" attitude that is probably more pervasive off the mountains than in them.
First, I do know that "ignorance of the law" is no excuse and can be like being unaware of something that a reasonable person should have been aware of. The legal ramifications of the latter are not clear to me. At a certain point we are culpable and what that is can be subject to debate (possibly in court).
Second, what preceded the event is not ours to judge but where the situation goes from there could be in our hands and that is where I think we have an obligation.
As usual, we lack some details of this situation and much is speculative but is clear that Mr. Nguyen was unprepared for the hike and that must have been fairly obvious to someone well prepared. At the very least I think it would have been reasonable, if not responsible, to have asked, "Are you sure you can make it?" Past threads here have described equipment, advice or help rendered in similar circumstances. My initial thought was that there might be some civic liability on the part of other hikers just as there might be some exoneration if the efforts of a good samaritan fail.
As for the facts ... who needs 'em on a rainy day like today? Will somebody throw a few more logs on the fire?
First, I do know that "ignorance of the law" is no excuse and can be like being unaware of something that a reasonable person should have been aware of. The legal ramifications of the latter are not clear to me. At a certain point we are culpable and what that is can be subject to debate (possibly in court).
Second, what preceded the event is not ours to judge but where the situation goes from there could be in our hands and that is where I think we have an obligation.
As usual, we lack some details of this situation and much is speculative but is clear that Mr. Nguyen was unprepared for the hike and that must have been fairly obvious to someone well prepared. At the very least I think it would have been reasonable, if not responsible, to have asked, "Are you sure you can make it?" Past threads here have described equipment, advice or help rendered in similar circumstances. My initial thought was that there might be some civic liability on the part of other hikers just as there might be some exoneration if the efforts of a good samaritan fail.
As for the facts ... who needs 'em on a rainy day like today? Will somebody throw a few more logs on the fire?
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TDawg
Well-known member
Don't worry Stan, I just reread and thought my comments could be interpreted as such. Not directed at anyone. Cheers.
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