Checklist for winter trip to Baxter (bunkhouse/cabin)

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bikehikeskifish

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I am wondering if anyone has a checklist lying around from a prior trip to Baxter in winter. In particular, while staying in one of the wood stove heated cabins/bunkhouses. I have seen plenty of checklists for camping in general, and I put this in General Backcountry but I am trying to make a list for an upcoming trip to Baxter this March.

Thanks,
Tim
 
Here is exactly what I brought with me for a three day trip to Chimney Pond last January. We stayed in the bunkhouse. I have a TR as well, but not sure if it is within forum rules to link to another site (I'm new here!)...

*denotes items I brought but did not use.

Clothing:
Hardshell: MH Torsun
Puffy: Patagonia Das
"Magic" Layer: Patagonia Nano Air Hoodie
Top Baselayer 1: Patagonia Cap 2
Top Baselayer 2: Patagonia Cap 3
Bottom Baselayer 1: EMS Techwick 1
Bottom Baselayer 2: Patagonia Cap 2*
Midlayer Top: Patagonia R1 Hoodie
Softshell pants: OR Cirque
Hardshell Pants: MH Epic
Socks 1: EMS Summit
Socks 2: EMS Summit
Sock Liners: Smartwool
Hat: FA merino wool
Balaclava: Patagonia Cap 4
Facemask: Serius* (blew away after the ridge, I needed this though)
Gloves: EMS Summit
Mitts: BD Mercury
Glove Liners 1: BD powerstretch
Glove liners 2: OR powerstretch*

Sleeping:
Bag: MH Col (-20)
Pad: Thermarest xlite
Pillow: Nemo Fillo

Hydration:
Water Bottle 1: Nalgene
Water Bottle 2: Nalgene
Thermos: Hydroflask
Filter: Katadyn Hiker Pro
Water Carrier 1: Katadyn 4L
Water Carrier 2: MSR Dromedary 4L (shared)

Cooking:
Stove: Jetboil Zip (shared)
Utensils: GSI
Mug: GSI

Footwear:
Mountain: LS Barunste
Nordic: Rossignol
Camp: WM down booties

Technical:
Piolet: BD Venom
Crampons: BD Sabretooth
Spikes: Microspikes
Helmet: BD Half Dome
Skis: Fischer*
Poles: BD Trail
Pack: CCW Valdez
Goggles: Smith
Sunglasses: Smith*

Food (shared):
Breakfast bars
2X dinner
Tea
Trail food (gel, bars, snickers, etc.)
Butter
Baguette
1X flask single malt

Misc:
Headlamp: BD Storm
Extra Batteries: Lithium*
Phone Charger: Ibatzz
First Aid: AMK*
Camera: Yes
Sled: Paris Expedition
Duffel: TNF Base Camp (L)
 
Link away! Also, I've read the BSP packets already, but I'm interested in what it's actually like dealing with the wood stove over time, and other users, etc. Why did you treat water (if you did) the way you did, etc.

Tim
 
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Why did you treat water

While talking with a ranger in Baxter 2 summers ago, he told a story about a pair of hikers chipping through the ice at Chimney Pond to get water. They didn't treat it and both got sick. Could be just a way to get everyone to treat water, but how much would you want to risk it in the park during winter.
 
I'm not really questioning that I should treat the water - I'm interested in the rationale behind the treatment method. Ordinarily, I filter, but my filter might freeze. Boiling is time-consuming and uses up lots of fuel. Iodine tastes like $#1+

Tim
 
Link away! Also, I've read the BSP packets already, but I'm interested in what it's actually like dealing with the wood stove over time, and other users, etc. Why did you treat water (if you did) they way you did, etc.

Tim

The woodstove is great. Last year we essentially had the bunkhouse to ourselves and kept it a reasonable temp, but I went back this year and it was almost a full house. The other party liked it HOT in there. My best advice if you don't like sleeping in a sauna is to choose a lower bunk. Noticeable difference between the two, though you'll bake regardless if someone likes to keep putting fresh logs on.

It was nice to be able to heat stuff up right on the stove as well.

I wouldn't worry about a filter freezing if you are solely in the bunkhouse, if it does you can heat it up real quick. I chose the Hiker Pro because it's light and super easy to use. We used the water carriers to bring water back to the bunkhouse from Chimney Pond (pain in the butt depending on where the hole is) and then pumped there. Worked just fine for us both times. The ranger said it's recommended to treat, but he knows of plenty of people that don't. I like to stay on the safe side, thus the filter.

Here is the link to a (lengthy) TR from last year. Some on here have probably seen it already...

http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/forum/other-places-in-the-northeast-united-states/new-england-trip-reports/27695-baxter-state-park-1-1-15-1-3-15
 
Doesn't a freezing of a ceramic filter element cause it to crack therefore rendering it useless?

Tim

I suppose that could happen, but didn't happen to me on either trip or other below-zero excursions. Probably a valid concern. Worst case scenario is you could boil in a pot right on the woodstove, thus eliminating the need to use up fuel. The other party there this year was doing that it seemed.
 
I'm not really questioning that I should treat the water - I'm interested in the rationale behind the treatment method. Ordinarily, I filter, but my filter might freeze. Boiling is time-consuming and uses up lots of fuel. Iodine tastes like $#1+

Tim

I started using Aqua Mira a long time ago and still think it is a great option. I do still filter on a select trips depending on water source using a small filter like the sawyer.
 
Tim, here are some thoughts I would offer that have served me well in wintertime Baxter (beyond what's in chocodove's list above) ...

- Most cabin folk I know filter their water. Good practice though, once filters are wet, is to take care to protect their elements from freezing, which might have the potential to cause enough damage to enable pathogens to pass through. The Katadyn (great brand name for a Baxter trip!) Hiker Pro, however, will not be damaged by freezing temps, so long as you're careful to pump out as much residual water as possible after use, and refrain from trying to pump the filter until it's completely thawed out. UV is also an option since the stream or pond (depends on the site and cabin) water you'll be using is pretty clear, but it is more prone to technical failure than the other options. Iodine? Yeah . . . I don't even like the taste of Aquamira (chlorine dioxide). But if you do go chemical, don't forget that the cold temps dictate a much longer steeping time.

- The wood stoves work well, and the park provides ample supplies of pre-split firewood within reasonable walking distance of the cabins. Depending on the cabin, you can achieve temps in the 70s and even 80s. Most groups shoot for low-mid 60s, esp for sleeping. If no one in your group is familiar with their use, the only potentially confusing items are the adjustable air intake ports on the door (you use this to control the fire intensity - and hence rate of fuel consumption - by regulating the amount of incoming oxygen), and the flue flap. When you're getting a fire going, and/or when opening the door to tend the fire, make sure the flue is open; if you forget this, you can flood the cabin with a belch of smoke. To minimize the loss of heat to the outdoors, close the flue once you've got a good fire going. Don't forget that the stove and the flue are HOT. Don't let your skin or a wayward taffeta puff inadvertently come in contact for even the briefest moment. Also, the park provides a shovel, bucket, and outdoor trash can for the stove ash. You may need to use these to ready the stove upon arrival, and it's a courtesy to clean out the stove when departing.

- You won't need the -20 sleeping bag, as it's unlikely that the overnight temps in your cabin will drop below 40 unless you want them to. A 20-30 degree bag is good.

- Bring a Coleman lantern mantle or two with you. The cabins use these. Usually there's a spare in the cabin, but it's a good idea to be prepared -- they're extremely fragile and vulnerable to breakage via human error (accidentally touching them when attempting to light the lantern).

- It's a good idea to have at least one mountaineering shovel in your group to deal with clearing out the cabin area in the event of copious new snow. I've seen snow shovels in the cabins some years, but earlier this month, for example, our cabin didn't have one.

- To the extent that you're providing for "down" weather days in your plan, bring things like cards, Bananagrams, etc.

- I like to bring 'happy hour' food (munchies, cheese, etc) and beverages (pick your poisons - hot choco, miso, alcohol, etc) in addition to classic winter hiking rations. Especially appreciated by folks during down days.

- Bring a weather band radio unless you've got a sat-link for your smartphone. A great way to get updates mornings and evenings in the event you find yourself in a dynamic weather period.

- Bring lots of line to string around the cabin for clothes drying.

- If your plans will take you above tree line, carry a rope (I would recommend 20m of 6mm Perlon) for rescue purposes. On Abol Slide a couple of years ago, one of the guys in my group took a serious fall, resulting in bad head trauma. The rope was key to getting him safely down the slide in his injured state to where rangers were waiting with snomos.

- You didn't mention any questions around your mode of transport from car to camp, so I'm assuming you're all set on that front.

Hope this helps . . . don't hesitate to follow up here and/or via e-mail as appropriate.

Alex
 
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Tim, here are some thoughts I would offer that have served me well in wintertime Baxter (beyond what's in chocodove's list above) ...

- for filtration, Katadyn (can't do a whole lot better than that for Baxter, at least brand-name wise) and Sawyer are optimal. Why? First, because they have good throughput, and second, assuming you drain the filter chamber (and pump in the case of the Katadyn) of free-flowing water, the filter won't be damaged by freezing temps though you obviously can't operate it until it warms back up. In contrast, the MSR miniworks has a ceramic filter that can crack when it freezes if it hasn't been pretty thoroughly dried out. UV is an option since the stream or pond (depends on the site and cabin) water you'll be using is pretty clear, but it is more prone to technical failure than the other options. Iodine? Yeah . . . I don't even like the taste of Aquamira (chlorine dioxide). But if you do go chemical, don't forget that the cold temps dictate a much longer steeping time.

That's what we used, and it worked fine. We used a large dry bag as our bucket to get water from the various sources. We kept pots of hot water on the wood stoves, but we didn't find them effective for boiling large quantities of water.

- The wood stoves work well, and the park provides ample supplies of pre-split firewood within reasonable walking distance of the cabins. Depending on the cabin, you can achieve temps in the 70s and even 80s. Most groups shoot for low-mid 60s, esp for sleeping. If no one in your group is familiar with their use, the only potentially confusing items are the adjustable air intake ports on the door (you use this to control the fire intensity - and hence rate of fuel consumption - by regulating the amount of incoming oxygen), and the flue flap. When you're getting a fire going, and/or when opening the door to tend the fire, make sure the flue is open; if you forget this, you can flood the cabin with a belch of smoke. To minimize the loss of heat to the outdoors, close the flue once you've got a good fire going. Don't forget that the stove and the flue are HOT. Don't let your skin or a wayward taffeta puff inadvertently come in contact for even the briefest moment. Also, the park provides a shovel, bucket, and outdoor trash can for the stove ash. You may need to use these to ready the stove upon arrival, and it's a courtesy to clean out the stove when departing.

- You won't need the -20 sleeping bag, as it's unlikely that the overnight temps in your cabin will drop below 40 unless you want them to. A 20-30 degree bag is good.
Our trip had 2 distinct segments (our weather was in the 20s-30s during the day). First we did the Katahdin portion (Roaring, Chimney x 2, Roaring), and I regretted having a -20 bag. The second part we stayed at Daicy Ponds (wonders of nature cabin, well insulated) and I was comfortable in a wal-mart fleece liner. That being said, our group kept things warm.

- Bring a weather band radio unless you've got a sat-link for your smartphone. A great way to get updates mornings and evenings in the event you find yourself in a dynamic weather period.

Believe it or not, we were able to get cell service at Chimney Pond which actually provided us with our weather updates at that point in the trip. I wouldn't depend on it though.
 
I'm not really questioning that I should treat the water - I'm interested in the rationale behind the treatment method. Ordinarily, I filter, but my filter might freeze. Boiling is time-consuming and uses up lots of fuel. Iodine tastes like $#1+

Tim

An extra letter in your initial comment about this caused me to misread what you said.
 
Sawyer recommends not letting their filters freeze after they've been used. There is no way to get them dry again and once frozen, the water crystals destroy the filter. They can never be trusted again.
 
Sawyer recommends not letting their filters freeze after they've been used. There is no way to get them dry again and once frozen, the water crystals destroy the filter. They can never be trusted again.

Thanks for the observation. The actual wording from Sawyer's website FAQ section is a bit more obtuse that what you paraphrased. Verbatim:

Can the filter be frozen?

- While we have no proof that freezing damages the filters we have no proof that it does not. Therefore we must recommend replacing the filter if you suspect it has been frozen.

Can I dry my filter out and then store it in freezing temperatures?

- No, it is almost impossible to get all the moisture out of a filter once it has had water in it; and the small amount that remains will/may cause damage.

This feels like lawyer-driven CYA, and hopefully Sawyer will at some point will take steps to gather sufficient data to remove the ambiguity. In the absence of reassuring hard data, the obvious course of action is to try to protect your filter from freezing, and to keep it in as dry a state as possible between uses on a trip to minimize the effects of any freezing.


I found nothing in writing on this from Katadyn, and so sent them the question. The response from their customer service team: the Hiker Pro filter will not be damaged by freezing temps, so long as you're careful to pump out as much residual water as possible after use, and if frozen, refrain from trying to pump the filter until it's completely thawed out.

Alex
 
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I heard back from Katadyn customer service re: whether the Hiker Pro filter can deal with freezing temps. Their response: the Hiker Pro filter will not be damaged by freezing temps, so long as you're careful to pump out as much residual water as possible after use, and if frozen, refrain from trying to pump the filter until it's completely thawed out.

I've updated my prior posts (11,16) to reflect this.
 
I have used the SteriPen in all winter conditions, and it works great. I use lithium batteries (it takes 4 AA).
 
I'm not really questioning that I should treat the water - I'm interested in the rationale behind the treatment method. Ordinarily, I filter, but my filter might freeze. Boiling is time-consuming and uses up lots of fuel. Iodine tastes like $#1+

Tim

FYI, years ago I tried to use a Steripen to solve this issue, but any water below 50 deg F would prevent the Ultraviolet bulb from igniting or staying "lit". And it brings mercury into the enviroment. In about 3 to 4 years, Ultraviolet LED's will be powerful enough and cheap enough to make a Steripen equivalent that works in the cold.

The UV light does not kill organisms immediately, but destroys their DNA, so they cannot reproduce.

I wonder why the MSR pen device which made a version of bleach disappeared from the market. Mine failed after 3 years, but it worked well in the winter. You had to be careful not to drink the water too soon or you would get stomach problems. The requirement to wait four hours just raised the disinfection rate from 99% to 99.97%-- so I took a risk and never waited the entire time--never had a problem.
 
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