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Thread: Things are heating up over ATV trails in Nash Stream

  1. #1
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    Things are heating up over ATV trails in Nash Stream

    The détente in the north country between conservation groups and the ATV, Ride the Wilds juggernaut appears to be over. The management of the Nash Stream area by the state has been somewhat of disappointment since conservation groups shamed the state into snatching the land out of certain development by friends of former governor Sununu, albeit at significant cost funded in part by those conservation groups. What was envisioned by many was a gradual removal of the former leased camps and a transition to a wilder area with a much lower sustainable timber harvest rate. There were also hopes of new hiking trail systems and overnight use with a few backcountry shelters. What really has happened is that the state manager has elected to continue the leases for perpetuity and have banned overnight use with the exception of leaseholders. The Cohos trail has spent a lot of time lobbying to run the trail system over some of the more scenic terrain, they eventually have been successful to build limited trails but it has been a battle. The explosive growth of ATVs were not envisioned when the property was purchased with a mix of state and private funds and now the state is aggressively expanding ATV use through the area contrary to the agreed upon management plan.

    Some of the conservation organizations are now pushing back against the state management approach to the area. https://www.forestsociety.org/sites/...tter_final.pdf
    It is interesting to note the minimal amount of money discussed to enforce the rules on the trails, a pretty steady rumble rising in the north country is enforcement on Ride the Wilds is a farce, what few resources that are available are right out straight dealing with frequent accidents.

    This is not the first time where the state acting as manager over properties with legally mandated restrictions has selectively ignored restrictions. The controversy in the Ossipee Mtn area several years ago came down to the state acting as manager allowing a land owner to ignore agreed upon restrictions that came along with a big federal check and punishing the individual who pointed out the mismanagement. The states response was to close the area to legally allowed hiker access until the snowmobile lobby complained.

    Similar issues have occurred at other properties originally purchased by conservation groups and transferred to state ownership. Ski areas get leased and expanded onto protected lands and cell towers get built on wild summits despite formal agreements to the contrary with the original purchasers.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 07-30-2016 at 09:35 PM.

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    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    ... despite formal agreements to the contrary with the original purchasers.
    Are there specific land conservation organizations with a history of selling or turning over conservation easements or land donations to state or federal agencies? I know it can be a source of cash or operational savings which frees up funds for other acquisitions or easements but if the original intent of the private landowner is lost then landowners need to be more selective in the conservation organization or perhaps include some sort of redemption clause in the deed.

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    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post

    This is not the first time where the state acting as manager over properties with legally mandated restrictions has selectively ignored restrictions. The controversy in the Ossipee Mtn area several years ago came down to the state acting as manager allowing a land owner to ignore agreed upon restrictions that came along with a big federal check and punishing the individual who pointed out the mismanagement. The states response was to close the area to legally allowed hiker access until the snowmobile lobby complained.
    Well this certainly reopens a can of worms. I disagree with this statement. This is not fact but your opinion and interpretation which you are entitled to. I will not state my interpretation or opinion on this matter here as I certainly voiced it in the thread that addresses this subject. I encourage others to form their own opinions also before accepting this spin of the facts.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Well this certainly reopens a can of worms. I disagree with this statement. This is not fact but your opinion and interpretation which you are entitled to. I will not state my interpretation or opinion on this matter here as I certainly voiced it in the thread that addresses this subject. I encourage others to form their own opinions also before accepting this spin of the facts.
    Spin?
    Fact: The state and landowner have ignored key parts of the agreement.
    Fact: The state and landowner closed trails that were, with our Federal tax dollars, to be ensured maintained and open to public use.
    Fact: The check to the landowner was well in excess of a million Federal tax dollars, not including massive tax breaks/exemptions.

    Back to the original thread, it is my understanding that the state has formally closed the hiking trail to South Percy.

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    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket21 View Post
    Back to the original thread, it is my understanding that the state has formally closed the hiking trail to South Percy.
    Oh no, when did that happen? A loop hike over North and South Percy is probably #3 on my 2016 wish list. Is it just the last .3m spur to South Percy that's closed? How hard would it be bushwhack around the closure?
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket21 View Post
    Back to the original thread, it is my understanding that the state has formally closed the hiking trail to South Percy.
    I didn't think the trail up South Percy was an official trail. In years past, it was more of a bushwhack and that was the reason there has always been a register on the summit.

    When did it become an official trail and where was it announced that it was closing?
    J&J

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    Member thegibba's Avatar
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    I just went up south Percy 3 days ago. The trail had no indications of it being closed. There was a sign stating that south Percy was thisaway near the junction of the Percy peaks trail and the Old Summer Club trail. If it is closed they are not doing a very good job of it.



    If you wan't to bushwhack it due to a trail closure. The forest looks like this. It's pretty much as good as it gets IMO as far as atmosphere goes.



    edited: because I got to my house and found a picture.
    Last edited by thegibba; 07-31-2016 at 06:35 PM.

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    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    Thanks for that info and the nice photos too. I'll post a TR if I get there, probably late August.
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

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    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Good for the state to allow ATV use there. No one use's that area for hiking much anyway. Just sits and rot's...I never see anyone much on the Coho's trail. I hiked it July 4th and never saw a soul in 8 hrs. And they don't have the budget to patrol and care of that land for hikers,etc. I've been up there a few times in the summer,etc. and snow machine there in the winter. Everyone goes to the mountains south of Gorham and Jefferson..
    The North Country benefits so much from ATV's. And not really from hikers. Especially the ones who come up on a tank of cheap gas and go back on the same tank from Ma then camp for free and bring there own food.
    I am a hiker, snowmachiner, camper,etc. and believe in sharing the resources... that's were I come from...
    Last edited by CaptCaper; 08-06-2016 at 07:00 AM.

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    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    ... The North Country benefits so much from ATV's. And not really from hikers. Especially the ones who come up on a tank of cheap gas and go back on the same tank from Ma then camp for free and bring there own food.
    I am a hiker, snowmachiner, camper,etc. and believe in sharing the resources... that's were I come from...
    Don't forget the tolls

    Bravo! I'm not much into motorized recreation but I do share that sentiment. I figure everyone's earned the joy of their passion as I have mine and there's room for all of us somewhere.

    I am, however, very judgemental when it comes to litter.

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    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    Don't forget the tolls

    Bravo! I'm not much into motorized recreation but I do share that sentiment. I figure everyone's earned the joy of their passion as I have mine and there's room for all of us somewhere.

    I am, however, very judgemental when it comes to litter.
    Some for sure complain about the tolls while drinking their Starbucks big $$$ drink. Nash Stream is open to autos now for anyone to go. If any litter is there it is from them ...I don't ATV but snowmachine many miles during the winter and never see trash anywhere at the trail heads,etc. So I say that the ATV folks will be above standards of the common folks ..they appreciate the privilege of using those trails. There are always a few who don't in any sport.. I see trash on the hiking trails and parking lot's all the time.

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    I hike some ATV trails in Maine. I always see budlight and coors light cans on the sides of the trails. Pretty sad than an atv'er can hail a 30 pack into the woods full, but wont haul the empies out.

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    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    I hike some ATV trails in Maine. I always see budlight and coors light cans on the sides of the trails. Pretty sad than an atv'er can hail a 30 pack into the woods full, but wont haul the empies out.
    It probably was a hunter or someone growing pot.

  14. #14
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    I hike some ATV trails in Maine. I always see budlight and coors light cans on the sides of the trails. Pretty sad than an atv'er can hail a 30 pack into the woods full, but wont haul the empies out.

    "Bud Can Theory" No matter how remote you are, not matter how you may feel nobody has been there since the dawn of man, you will always find a Bud Can. Pull tab, metal stripe down the side, being the most common.

    "Dunkins Cup Corollary" has been developed, as well.

  15. #15
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dug View Post
    "Bud Can Theory" No matter how remote you are, not matter how you may feel nobody has been there since the dawn of man, you will always find a Bud Can. Pull tab, metal stripe down the side, being the most common.

    "Dunkins Cup Corollary" has been developed, as well.
    So true....Ha... I've been in some far out places only to find one...funny thing is I remember most of them...or not funny really. Show's my age..

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