Hotel on Mt Washington??!!

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How much money do you think it would take to buy out the Cog and turn the land over to convert the land to NF?

To be consistent with 'Pinkham's Grant' and 'Green's Grant,' it could be called the 'Bedor-Presby Grant.' I'm curious what the Abenaki were paid when their sacred mountain was taken in order to sell snow globes, chili dogs, and rides on a choo-choo train?
 
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To be consistent with 'Pinkham's Grant' and 'Green's Grant,' it could be called the 'Bedor-Presby Grant.' I'm curious what the Abenaki were paid when their sacred mountain was taken in order to sell snow globes, chili dogs, and rides on a choo-choo train?

They weren't paid ..they all died from the early White Men's diseases...so it was abandoned when we came... this what I got from the American Expierence movie on "Before the Pilgrims"
 
They weren't paid ..they all died from the early White Men's diseases...so it was abandoned when we came... this what I got from the American Expierence movie on "Before the Pilgrims"

Read "Germs, Guns, and Steel" sometime. Some estimates put a 70 to 90% die-off from European diseases before the Pilgrims landed. Thriving Native-American cultures couldn't survive that type of decimation. The continuing genocide is one of our darker histories of the US.
 
Read "Germs, Guns, and Steel" sometime. Some estimates put a 70 to 90% die-off from European diseases before the Pilgrims landed. Thriving Native-American cultures couldn't survive that type of decimation. The continuing genocide is one of our darker histories of the US.

According to PBS Plymouth was hardest hit just about gone for that area. Some survived better.

On a side note on the Cog today we couldn't go to the summit.. just skyline.. winds gusting over 80mph... guess what flagged us down for help... up on skyline.... some hikers... frozen,wet and damn happy to see the Cog.. funny everyone always picks on the Cog.. never on Wildcat Attitash,Cannon or what ever.. You can hardly see a line up the mountain from them. And probably 95 % who complain about the hotel will never see it due to Fog or never in that area not to mention being inconspicuous. I saw the design today. Very nice. I put in to be the first to stay there on opening night.
 
According to PBS Plymouth was hardest hit just about gone for that area. Some survived better.

On a side note on the Cog today we couldn't go to the summit.. just skyline.. winds gusting over 80mph... guess what flagged us down for help... up on skyline.... some hikers... frozen,wet and damn happy to see the Cog.. funny everyone always picks on the Cog.. never on Wildcat Attitash,Cannon or what ever.. You can hardly see a line up the mountain from them. And probably 95 % who complain about the hotel will never see it due to Fog or never in that area not to mention being inconspicuous. I saw the design today. Very nice. I put in to be the first to stay there on opening night.

I've always been pragmatic. I've accepted what's on Washington from the time, I first saw it. I rode the Cog, got to take my Mom up it. She was able to see the alpine terrain she heard about for many year's, we had a great day. As far as the hotel, I'm ambivalent on it, won't bother me either way. I do find it ironic though, not to beat a dead horse. Those who rail (pun intended) against the hotel, are fine with the AMC huts, frankly, I find it the epitome of hypocrisy. At least the Cog actually owns the land they plan to use.
 
I've always been pragmatic. I've accepted what's on Washington from the time, I first saw it. I rode the Cog, got to take my Mom up it. She was able to see the alpine terrain she heard about for many year's, we had a great day. As far as the hotel, I'm ambivalent on it, won't bother me either way. I do find it ironic though, not to beat a dead horse. Those who rail (pun intended) against the hotel, are fine with the AMC huts, frankly, I find it the epitome of hypocrisy. At least the Cog actually owns the land they plan to use.

Agree. There is a ton of hypocrisy and intolerance out there. Basically you have a fundamental characteristic of human nature, which is that many people are intolerant of those activities with which they do not agree serve any purpose and with respect which they don't partake. The irony is that the overwhelming majority of the time the issue does not directly impact them but is a concept that bothers them in principle. Additionally, they are most often not locals. In any event, like you I am agnostic as to the cog hotel. I think the cog is a landmark and the owners have generally tried to strike a balance between preservation and capitalization. Just my opinion.
 
Agree. There is a ton of hypocrisy and intolerance out there. Basically you have a fundamental characteristic of human nature, which is that many people are intolerant of those activities with which they do not agree serve any purpose and with respect which they don't partake. The irony is that the overwhelming majority of the time the issue does not directly impact them but is a concept that bothers them in principle.

I agree to a point, but let's not overstate it.

To be clear, those you describe are a faction of society, a very vocal one, and therefore one which appears larger than the reality. The people you describe are completely self-centered, self-serving, and have a real difficulty seeing outside their own reality or that of their peer group. I do not believe that this represents the majority of people, although sometimes they may represent the majority of the noise being made. The loudest group is rarely the largest.

Some people, many people, have a strong moral compass which drives their decision making and opinions. They don't differentiate for personal gain, personal habits or hobbies, and hold themselves as accountable as everyone else. When they criticize the actions of others, they do so knowing they are equally critical of themselves. Many of these people also tend to be quietly confident and do not constantly feel the need to broadcast their thoughts more loudly than everyone else.

Some people can hold themselves to the same standard they hold others. Some have not reached that point.

My opinion is that Mount Washington is be a place where no money should be exchanged, regardless of the tax structure you may be in, whether labelled as profit, or non. I still view it as a sacred mountain. And although it is only one opinion, just because population is increasing and just because more visitors come to the mountain, it does not justify more buildings nor more infrastructure on the slopes of the mountain. We have lots of valleys for rooms, food, and amenities.

I'm reminded of a quote by Ed Abbey, "growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

I think we can move forward in a way that benefits everyone without slowly eating away at the integrity of the mountain. But that involves cooperation, listening, and moving away from politically-based, loud talking points.

For what may be a different perspective on the Native American experience, I'd suggest anything by Vine Deloria, Jr. Custer Died for Your Sins is probably his most popular.
 
.....My opinion is that Mount Washington is be a place where no money should be exchanged, regardless of the tax structure you may be in, whether labelled as profit, or non. I still view it as a sacred mountain. And although it is only one opinion, just because population is increasing and just because more visitors come to the mountain, it does not justify more buildings nor more infrastructure on the slopes of the mountain. We have lots of valleys for rooms, food, and amenities

A noble opinion which I can agree with but it's long gone. Justified or not build it and they will come. As I have already mentioned the demographic will feed right into this place if it gets built. Along with a trip to the Balsams while they are at it.
 
I would add that I do not view someone who disagrees with my opinions as not having a strong moral compass.
 
Moderation Note
A reminder that politics aren't allowed in posts here on VFTT. Please dial it back a notch or two.
 
According to PBS Plymouth was hardest hit just about gone for that area. Some survived better.

On a side note on the Cog today we couldn't go to the summit.. just skyline.. winds gusting over 80mph... guess what flagged us down for help... up on skyline.... some hikers... frozen,wet and damn happy to see the Cog.. funny everyone always picks on the Cog.. never on Wildcat Attitash,Cannon or what ever.. You can hardly see a line up the mountain from them. And probably 95 % who complain about the hotel will never see it due to Fog or never in that area not to mention being inconspicuous. I saw the design today. Very nice. I put in to be the first to stay there on opening night.

Where do you draw the line? Just develop it until there's sprawl? Spread over to Bigelow Lawn and Franklin? Monticello Lawn? I'm not saying shut down the Cog or buy it out, but how much is too much?
 
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Those who rail (pun intended) against the hotel, are fine with the AMC huts, frankly, I find it the epitome of hypocrisy.

There've got to be some who support both huts and Cog Hotel and some who oppose both, no? Maybe an overgeneralization?

For me, at least, I don't like the idea of putting another hotel up there b/c there's already enough, probably too much, development on Washington above tree line. I'd oppose a new hut above tree line. Might not oppose expanding an existing one, though, but that would be the limit of it, from my standpoint. By the same token, modification and carefully evaluated, minimal expansion to other existing summit structures I could see allowing, with an emphasis on minimal.

Does that merit condemnation as hypocritical? If so, so be it.
 
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I agree to a point, but let's not overstate it.

To be clear, those you describe are a faction of society, a very vocal one, and therefore one which appears larger than the reality. The people you describe are completely self-centered, self-serving, and have a real difficulty seeing outside their own reality or that of their peer group. I do not believe that this represents the majority of people, although sometimes they may represent the majority of the noise being made. The loudest group is rarely the largest.

Some people, many people, have a strong moral compass which drives their decision making and opinions. They don't differentiate for personal gain, personal habits or hobbies, and hold themselves as accountable as everyone else. When they criticize the actions of others, they do so knowing they are equally critical of themselves. Many of these people also tend to be quietly confident and do not constantly feel the need to broadcast their thoughts more loudly than everyone else.

Some people can hold themselves to the same standard they hold others. Some have not reached that point.

My opinion is that Mount Washington is be a place where no money should be exchanged, regardless of the tax structure you may be in, whether labelled as profit, or non. I still view it as a sacred mountain. And although it is only one opinion, just because population is increasing and just because more visitors come to the mountain, it does not justify more buildings nor more infrastructure on the slopes of the mountain. We have lots of valleys for rooms, food, and amenities.

I'm reminded of a quote by Ed Abbey, "growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

I think we can move forward in a way that benefits everyone without slowly eating away at the integrity of the mountain. But that involves cooperation, listening, and moving away from politically-based, loud talking points.

For what may be a different perspective on the Native American experience, I'd suggest anything by Vine Deloria, Jr. Custer Died for Your Sins is probably his most popular.

Beautifully said. Thank you. I come down on the side of accepting what's been put in place, but I love your expression of the wild ideal.
 
Moderation Note
A reminder that politics aren't allowed in posts here on VFTT. Please dial it back a notch or two.

From what I can see, this entire thread is at its heart political. There is quite a bit here that I find rather offensive, so I am staying out of it. I stated my position a long time ago, I have read nothing since that would do anything but reinforce it.

Happy hiking...
 
From what I can see, this entire thread is at its heart political. There is quite a bit here that I find rather offensive, so I am staying out of it. I stated my position a long time ago, I have read nothing since that would do anything but reinforce it.

Happy hiking...

moderator hat

A lot issues of interest to the VFTT community are political. The sale of hike safe cards is one example that directly affects us. Topics which are affected by politics or political decisions or politicians are not necessarily the intent of the "no politics" rule.

The line was crossed by the comment referring to President Trump. This was neither on topic or constructive in any way.

Tim
 
There are over 12000 Abenaki who would beg to differ about not being here.

Just to be up front. I tried to make a point and did a poor job. I deleted my post because it deserved it. I have the utmost respect for Native Americans, and apologize for any disrespect my post may have incurred, it was completely unintentional. Thanks for bringing that fact to my Attention.
 
How much money do you think it would take to buy out the Cog and turn the land over to convert the land to NF?

This was a serious question. A significant amount of public lands have been acquired through this type of activity. I don't have any real sense of what the land might be worth though. Not advocating for it - just sincerely curious.
 
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