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Thread: Hotel on Mt Washington??!!

  1. #46
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    The huts were put there to save lives, a place to shelter from the crazy storms that pop up from time to time. They serve a humanitarian purpose. The hotels were placed to serve toursists and they are all gone. There are more and more tourists in the whites, but they no longer have much of an interest to stay overnight when their own bed is a couple hours drive away. There will be even less incentive to stay at the cog hotel since its a quick train ride back down the mountain to their car.

  2. #47
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    It's so crowded, nobody goes there anymore. http://www.attitash.com/grand-summit-overview-winter/

  3. #48
    Senior Member cushetunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    I think nothing of Mt. Cannon ski resort, or Wildcat, but if they weren't there and someone wanted to build them, oh my gosh, that would be so unthinkable! How dare they put those scars upon the land?

    I have learned this through my years: all change is bad.

    Then the next generation comes along and thinks nothing of it.

    I'm not saying I approve of the little hotel, but life will go on, and the next generation of hikers will think nothing of it, just as I think nothing of Lakes of the Clouds being there.
    I don't think that's quite right. We've inherited the decisions of the past, and they are not easily undone. I certainly think about what the mountains would be like with less development. Maybe someday we will decide to "rewild" places. Until then, though, it's not hypocritical to consider the impacts of new development to the mountains.

  4. #49
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    We've re-wilded lots of areas in the White Mountains by just banning development. You can sill see the scars in the Wild River Wilderness from erosion, but it is forested over now. If one didnt know the history, one may wonder what caused the vertical scratches in the forest hillsides caused by erosion on the denuded and burnt off slopes 100 years ago. No need to keep making the same mistakes, or repeat failures from the past, though. We should be able to learn from history.

  5. #50
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    Pick your poison. Population growth in this country is causing this issue.

  6. #51
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    Hmm...North Country native who has kept the Cog railway running for 33 years, rescued Bretton Woods ski area, rescued Bretton Woods golf course, and rescued the Mt. Washington Hotel, wants to build a hotel on private property.

    Clearly they have no idea what they're doing. Don't they know their only rights are to pay taxes, provide jobs, and keep our winter hiking lot plowed? And they don't have the common decency to surround the hotel with industrial wind turbines? And how dare they attempt to compete with the AMC's high altitude lodging monopoly! Let's grab our pitchforks and stop this travesty before they so much as reveal the actual plans for the building!

  7. #52
    Senior Member Becca M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket21 View Post
    Hmm...North Country native who has kept the Cog railway running for 33 years, rescued Bretton Woods ski area, rescued Bretton Woods golf course, and rescued the Mt. Washington Hotel, wants to build a hotel on private property.

    Clearly they have no idea what they're doing. Don't they know their only rights are to pay taxes, provide jobs, and keep our winter hiking lot plowed? And they don't have the common decency to surround the hotel with industrial wind turbines? And how dare they attempt to compete with the AMC's high altitude lodging monopoly! Let's grab our pitchforks and stop this travesty before they so much as reveal the actual plans for the building!
    hahaha

    doesn't bother me - would be cool to stay there when the wind is freaking howling - wonder if there is enough sunlight for solar - hehehe - perhaps some "common sense" cog reform?
    Last edited by Becca M; 12-05-2016 at 05:48 AM.
    Yay for winter!!!!!

  8. #53
    Senior Member hikerbrian's Avatar
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    I don't think it makes much sense to try and compare this development proposal to the AMC huts. LOTC hut, for example, serves the purpose of focusing impact into a single, quite small footprint that is relatively easily managed. I don't even want to think about what that area would look like if people were left to camp, cook, and defecate wherever they wanted. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in a time when fewer people used that area, and I could have my own little perch to myself. I'd even LNT, believe me. But that time is long gone, and it's not coming back anytime soon. LOTC hut serves a real purpose, and in the scheme of things it does it with relatively low impact. Hey, I wish 13 Falls was pristine and I could pitch wherever I wanted, too. Or Guyot, Franconia Ridge, and many other spectacular areas. But it's pretty unlikely I'd be the only person in any of those places these days, and I don't want to imagine what they'd look like in the absence of a composting toilet. If I want solitude, I know lots of places to find it. If I want treeless ridgeline hikes in NH, I join the masses and submit to the best available management practices.

    Call me a typical Mass***e (which would be ironic, considering I've been a NH resident the majority of my life), but I think this development proposal is fundamentally different in that it doesn't obviously solve any identifiable problem. Not enough options for luxury accomodation? BS. Hikers want this kind of destination? BS. High impact area that needs more concentration of impact? BS. It'll create very few jobs, none of which will be year round. Additional tax revenue will be minimal or nonexistant. And there are very real and easily-identified negative impacts.
    Sure. Why not.

  9. #54
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    The problem it identifies is giving the ability to stay in an area that many could not, unless they traveled there on foot.

    Time will tell if this is a true problem, and the masses agree.

  10. #55
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca M View Post
    hahaha

    doesn't bother me - would be cool to stay there when the wind is freaking howling...
    I remember reading that the existing cog footprint is but a small part of Silas Marsh's original vision of the railway. He hoped to lay rails over to Jefferson and beyond. Funding foiled that plan.

    If the cog has the powerful status of a typical American "railroad," it can do pretty much what is dam well wants to on its right-of-way.

    It's switch from filthy coal to bio-diesel is an environment-friendly change I applaud, as is it's willingness to allow power-cable-laying along its right-of-way for the electrification of the summit (no more roaring diesel generators in what once was the nicely designed entrance portico of the Adams building).

    If you've hiked or climbed in Europe, the notion of high huts, mountain hotels, funiculars, cable cars, chair lifts and other human amenities seem pretty normal in the mountain landscape. Is the natural beauty of the Aguille Midi, Jungfrau, or Snowden diminished by its development?

    How many angels can fit on the head of a pin?

    cb
    Last edited by ChrisB; 12-05-2016 at 11:56 AM.
    It's a long way to the top
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  11. #56
    Senior Member hikerbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dug View Post
    The problem it identifies is giving the ability to stay in an area that many could not, unless they traveled there on foot.

    Time will tell if this is a true problem, and the masses agree.
    You're right, and they have a fair point. My feeling is that's a pretty small number of people - wealthy folks willing to drop several hundred dollars for a night in a rugged environment they may only get to experience through a window and often with zero visability. And it's worth pointing out that a huge motivator for creating the national parks and conservation land in general is to avoid a situation where wealthy people get to enjoy the most beautiful natural resources our country has to offer, to the exclusion of everyone else.
    Sure. Why not.

  12. #57
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    Just for a little fun, lets wonder................

    How they are going to get a well drilling rig in position at Skyline ?
    What if there is no source of potable water within their 99 ' right of way

    How are they going to get cement trucks up there to pour footings ?

    What will they use as a fuel source for heat, and how will they re-fuel ?

    If they are going to be full service, and provide meals, that means staff in place from roughly 5 AM to 10 PM, not to mention the overnight staff, the housekeeping staff, and the regular daily needs of " mail and bank run". Never mind food deliveries, liquor stock and repair personnel.

    Laundry. On site or off??? Offsite means schlepping it down and back up the mountain. Onsite means they better have PLENTY of water and PLENTY of power.

    Kinda fun to toss those things around in one's head.

    Unfun things like----- how to evac the place, how to safely and efficiently transport an emergent medical problem.. well, save those for " later".

  13. #58
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    Ask an engineer

    Just for a little fun, lets wonder................

    How they are going to get a well drilling rig in position at Skyline ?
    What if there is no source of potable water within their 99 ' right of way

    AMC flew up a modular drilling rig to all the huts with a helicopter. Given that the right of way is on prominent ridge line, finding a viable volume source of underground water is not a guarantee. They can pump it up from the base but that's not cheap.

    How are they going to get cement trucks up there to pour footings ?

    They could set up an onsite plant at the base and haul it up on the cog and then pump from the car. This a major logistics issue

    What will they use as a fuel source for heat, and how will they re-fuel ?

    Plenty of options, I expect they will build to a pretty high energy standard so they can "greenwash' the place. Probably biodiesel that they already produce at their own plant that they all ready use to run the cogs. I expect they will just build a tanker car. The nice thing with biodiesel is its easier to deal with environmentally, far less toxic than standard fuel oil.

    If they are going to be full service, and provide meals, that means staff in place from roughly 5 AM to 10 PM, not to mention the overnight staff, the housekeeping staff, and the regular daily needs of " mail and bank run". Never mind food deliveries, liquor stock and repair personnel. I would expect they would run off hour operations to support the facility

    Laundry. On site or off??? Offsite means schlepping it down and back up the mountain. Onsite means they better have PLENTY of water and PLENTY of power.

    Schlepping it offsite off hours, I expect they will work out a deal with Mt Washington hotel. They have all the power they want by tapping into the cable

    One of the things that switching to the diesel electric cogs is they can run many more of them. I expect that at some point they will put in a second track and possibly use the hotel as a justification. Realistically without a second track, trying to keep the cog generating revenue with tourists while construction is in progress will be quite a challenge.

    Kinda fun to toss those things around in one's head.

    Unfun things like----- how to evac the place, how to safely and efficiently transport an emergent medical problem.. well, save those for " later".

    That's where I think permitting is going be a nightmare. There is no unincorporated area fire department nor ambulance service in the area. There are private ambulance services that support the area but the run to the nearby hospital is quite long. Unless they use a helicopter, transporting a patient via the cog will be difficult as there are no passing lanes on the cog so any emergency is going to have to wait until all the tourist cars clear out between the hotel and the base or the summit. New construction at the summit is predominantly concrete for a reason, even with the auto road a fire department at best may get there in time to hose down the ashes. There is already a rough service road where the cable went in but due to the grade its never going to be something a fire vehicle can use. I expect an insurer will require non flammable construction with full sprinklers and a large water storage tank preferably fed by gravity. The concept of running the Cog through the building is also pretty bizarre unless they stop running the coal fired units. Since there is no emergency vehicle access I expect the number of occupied floors will be limited as there is no option to bring in ladder truck.

    It all comes down to money. I do believe there is well heeled clientele that will eat this right up. I expect that the cog are going to have to chip in a lot more than the standard owner equity to borrow money for the balance of the project due to the risks.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 12-05-2016 at 02:21 PM.

  14. #59
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    For someone who actually wants to participate in the process of if there will be a hotel and if so how will it be built, todays Berlin Daily Sun has a explanatory editorial from the head of the Coos County Planning Board explaining the process and proving links to the appropriate documents used in the process. There is also some background on the three petitions (two against one for started by the Cog).

    http://edition.pagesuite-professiona...7-07ab466afc1a you need to do free subscription to view) .If you aren't interested in the editorial on the mechanics of the process by the head of the Coos County planning board, here is direct link to the background article http://www.berlindailysun.com/newsx/...lic-comments#/

    Quick Summary, Its very early in the process, the proposal hasn't been submitted to the Coos county planning board and as such there is nothing for the public to comment on. There is a preliminary hearing scheduled for this week between the Cog and the planning board but its a Q & A session for the Cog and the board with no opportunity for the public to comment. If the Cog elects to go forward, when they do submit an application the public will have opportunities to comment. Its county based process so those who plan to participate should plan on occasional trips to Lancaster NH.

    IMHO when comments are accepted they need to be specifically focused on what part of the regulations and master plan (see John Scarinza's editorial) that are incompatible with the proposed project. One great value for attending preliminary hearings despite no pubic comments is that watching the interaction between the board members and the developer generally give an indication of how much they support the project and what the hot buttons are.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 12-06-2016 at 08:58 AM.

  15. #60
    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    Will I be able to see this (proposed) building from the summit of Jefferson? From along the Caps Ridge Trial?
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

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