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Thread: Another rescue of the clueless

  1. #46
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerbrian View Post


    The VERY FIRST change I observe in myself with mild hypothermia (i.e. feeling chilled, not even shivering; so perhaps 0.5 degree core temperature drop) is social withdrawal. I stop interacting with others, stop participating in the conversation. I lose personality.
    OMG. And all these years I've believed I was simply antisocial when I was actually mildly hypothermic. Who knew? Someone get me a coat; I've got a party to go to.
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  2. #47
    Senior Member hikerbrian's Avatar
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    I mean, people might look at you a little funny at first, sweating profusely in your puffy, but once you open your mouth they'll be magnetically drawn to your charisma and wit. Totally worth it!
    Sure. Why not.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I expect the experienced person would be very hesitant to give a thumbs up to 4 day winter solo trek. I expect F&G would also be quite hesitant. I think they both would tend to be quite conservative.
    So, why would a 17 year-old from Toronto bother to ask AMC and F&G for advice, then ignore it?

  4. #49
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    I'm going to speculate here, so give me some rope. What if he was so inexperienced that he had no idea what he was getting into at all. Furthermore, with that lack of knowledge or any understanding of the potential dangers, he simply couldn't even register the warnings as real. When I think back to when I started, granted I was even younger. I took on trips that were way above my paygrade and had absolutely no idea at the time. In fact, I thought I was being careful and ready to go. Youth, exuberance and a taste for adventure, frankly that's all it takes to get him where he was. If this is the case and he was reading this? I'd have two comments. One, been there done that. Second, take a course or class somewhere, it just may save your life, as well as make your trips fun. Mountain Climbing is unlike most sports, as you can actually die doing it, not like golf. To quote Hemmingway, " There are only 3 sports: Bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering: all the rest are merely games"

  5. #50
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    I'm going to speculate here, so give me some rope. What if he was so inexperienced that he had no idea what he was getting into at all. Furthermore, with that lack of knowledge or any understanding of the potential dangers, he simply couldn't even register the warnings as real. When I think back to when I started, granted I was even younger. I took on trips that were way above my paygrade and had absolutely no idea at the time.
    This would be my guess if I had to pick one based on the few details.

    Imagining that were that case, I've been there, done that as well. People with a sense of adventure, especially young people sometimes just dive in, bull headed, ignoring advice. He's 17. I was all those things by nature at that age. It's good he's not hurt and has a learning experience. I don't understand the thirty year olds with no sense, but I give him a break.

    Quote Originally Posted by hikerbrian View Post
    I mean, people might look at you a little funny at first, sweating profusely in your puffy, but once you open your mouth they'll be magnetically drawn to your charisma and wit. Totally worth it!
    I like it. It's a plan. I'll find my old Kangol hat. It'll be like Buffalo, 1987 again. Tricky.
    Last edited by Raven; 01-11-2017 at 10:06 PM.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    What if he was so inexperienced that he had no idea what he was getting into at all. Furthermore, with that lack of knowledge or any understanding of the potential dangers, he simply couldn't even register the warnings as real.
    That could explain why he ignored the advice. But it doesn't explain what advice was given, when it was given and why it was given. I guess I'm more interested in learning if AMC and F&G could have done something differently to prevent this event.
    Last edited by jfb; 01-12-2017 at 10:40 AM.

  7. #52
    Senior Member Sematary's Avatar
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    2.6 miles? ???

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sematary View Post
    2.6 miles? ???
    make that 2.6 miles DOWNHILL...

  9. #54
    Senior Member Rainman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sematary View Post
    2.6 miles? ???
    I know the article states that he climbed 2.6 miles, but given that this would be Liberty Springs Tentsite, and the unlikely plan to start a pemi-loop from Liberty Spring, I wonder if he hiked from Lincoln Woods via Oseo Tr. and camped at Liberty Springs Tentsite. This might explain why he did not hike out on his own, as he was would be thinking it was a much further hike than it was, more like 7 miles.
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  10. #55
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman View Post
    I know the article states that he climbed 2.6 miles, but given that this would be Liberty Springs Tentsite, and the unlikely plan to start a pemi-loop from Liberty Spring, I wonder if he hiked from Lincoln Woods via Oseo Tr. and camped at Liberty Springs Tentsite. This might explain why he did not hike out on his own, as he was would be thinking it was a much further hike than it was, more like 7 miles.
    I don't know that he did anything that made sense given the situation so it's a big assumption that he would have started the loop in a conventional way. And 2.6 miles is a pretty precise figure in the article so I assume they knew exactly where he threw in the towel. Of course this whole story makes no sense so I guess anything is possible....
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  11. #56
    Senior Member Brambor's Avatar
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    I think it would somewhat explain the claim that he ignored advice. He could have stopped at the cabin at LW and talked to the people there and then headed out via Flume
    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.

  12. #57
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    The lad from Toronto needs to be integrated with some more experienced winter hikers familiar with the Whites. He has initiative and the desire for winter hiking/camping. I have had the pleasure of meeting Montreal natives on ADK peaks and at the Loj, accomplished outdoorsmen. Perhaps he is a little shy of approaching others.
    Walt

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by whcobbs View Post
    The lad from Toronto needs to be integrated with some more experienced winter hikers familiar with the Whites. He has initiative and the desire for winter hiking/camping. I have had the pleasure of meeting Montreal natives on ADK peaks and at the Loj, accomplished outdoorsmen. Perhaps he is a little shy of approaching others.
    Walt
    AMC winter school is great first step.

  14. #59
    Senior Member jniehof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jniehof View Post
    That's what I wonder. Can't get the tent together, screw it, back out to the road (in like an hour), maybe run the heater in the car for a bit, sleep in the car.
    Resurrecting this thread. The new Appalachia is out (Winter/Spring 2018) and this one made Accidents. He'd flown YYZ-JFK, bus to Hanover, taxi to the Flume parking. So he didn't have a car to bail to. That certainly changes the equation a bit: trying to thumb a lift on the Parkway in the dark the first week of January would not be a particularly fast or reliable way back to warmth and safety.

    Lots more details in the report; worth a read. He was champing at the bit to go back out pretty much as soon as he came in...definitely somebody who bounces back with enthusiasm.

  15. #60
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jniehof View Post
    He'd flown YYZ-JFK
    Fun fact: YYZ is pronounced Why-Why-Zed. Many know that already I'm sure living so close to Canada.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

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