Garfield Pond

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Isn't this a ways down the GRT heading toward Twins (like 1/4 mile and a few hundred feet of vertical)? I tried finding in my notes from the times I've been through there but don't see anything. I remember thinking it would suck to go down that far just to get water. Don't have a clear memory of it though.

I was unclear on what you were doing. I think I assumed you were backpacking since you were asking about a water source. Reason being, 95% of the time I carry all the fluids I need to hydrate with for a day hike. That's just me.
 
I was unclear on what you were doing. I think I assumed you were backpacking since you were asking about a water source. Reason being, 95% of the time I carry all the fluids I need to hydrate with for a day hike. That's just me.

That was a fair assumption. But remember I am "DayTrip". :) I probably carry all the water I intend to consume about 60-70% of the time too but I've been doing more and more filtering the past few years. Can dramatically cut pack weight which helps me with my overall range and in Summer I tend to drink a ton of water when it is hot, far more than is practical to carry.
 
Just so we're clear, I don't think anyone advocated NOT treating water from Garfield Pond. What I wrote is that filtration is sufficient, so one should not ADDITIONALLY treat the water chemically.

I can feel this conversation potentially digressing into a 'What's the real efficacy of treating back country water?' discussion. My personal viewpoint is that there's essentially no downside to filtering water. Cost is minimal ($40 for a filter that lasts for years), time required is minimal, and there's no added off flavor. Whether the risk is small or large from drinking untreated water is immaterial. That the risk is non-zero is enough for me.

I also tend to think the suggestion that flowing water is safer than still water is probably not true. Especially considering that many streams are actually outlets from alpine lakes and ponds. Again, to me the question of relative risk is immaterial. It's all getting filtered before it goes into my belly.

Was not intending to digress into a "filter/don't filter" thread. From my point of view I took your reply as a given or assumption that a water filter would be used. So when I saw that you mentioned treating it as you normally would any other pond I took that as meaning an added step beyond the assumed water filter. I very rarely use the chemical tablets, chemicals, etc. however so I took that as a distinction you were making because it was a pond. No need to debate the point beyond here for me.
 
I was unclear on what you were doing. I think I assumed you were backpacking since you were asking about a water source. Reason being, 95% of the time I carry all the fluids I need to hydrate with for a day hike. That's just me.

Same with me. Another factor is that sometimes water sources in the backcountry can taste pretty awful. I'd probably carry an extra liter and stash it somewhere near the pond for the return trip.
 
Same with me. Another factor is that sometimes water sources in the backcountry can taste pretty awful. I'd probably carry an extra liter and stash it somewhere near the pond for the return trip.

I have never had a problem with the water I filter tasting bad. Do you mean unfiltered water? I usually carry a packet of Crystal Light or something for when I use the purification tablets because I find they leave somewhat of a "pool water" taste. Nothing so bad it is undrinkable but it takes away the refreshing aspect of the water.
 
Same with me. Another factor is that sometimes water sources in the backcountry can taste pretty awful. I'd probably carry an extra liter and stash it somewhere near the pond for the return trip.

Also, you can probably still follow the old trail and skip summiting Garfield again. Although hanging out on Garfield in the evening is really splendid.
 
For Garfied Pond water, just filter it. No need for a chemical treatment in addition.
Filters remove cysts and bacteria but not viruses. (2 ppm of iodine after filtering is very effective at killing viruses--purifiers often combine filtering and iodine.)

Filters are adequate for most backcountry water, but if human and/or animal waste might be getting into the water, I would want to treat for viruses as well.

Doug
 
I was kind of confused as to the issue, when it dawned on me. Are you doing an out and back from Garfield? Not sure I would do that, but if you are. I think someone already suggested, just stash a bottle along the way after filling up at the pond, to snag on the way back.
 
Walking down in the dark is one of things I like most about hiking. It also allows sleeping late and missing the crowds.

Absolutely! Enjoying sunsets and alpenglow from the trail is really nice. It's amazing how long you can go before needing a light source.
 
I was kind of confused as to the issue, when it dawned on me. Are you doing an out and back from Garfield? Not sure I would do that, but if you are. I think someone already suggested, just stash a bottle along the way after filling up at the pond, to snag on the way back.

Yes, I did an out and back yesterday. I hike alone so car spotting or looping the area was not an option and I do the Skoochumchuck trail often and rarely do Garfield (I think the Garfield Trail is a major yawn until you are near the top). I actually found that section of GRT very nice and an interesting walk. Wounded up turning around at the Skook junction because the weather was lousy.

Water was a non issue. I carried 3L and only wound up drinking 2L. Probably should have drank a little more than that but when I got back on Garfield Trail on way back I just turned on the jets to get back to the car. I was drenched. Pond seemed like it would have been fine for a source but it was irrelevant because it was so wet I could have filtered water pretty much anywhere on the trails. Pretty much any section of trail with some grade was like a small brook. I never stash gear on hikes. Depending on something like that always concerns me. Could get stolen, pilfered with, I might get injured and be unable to return to it, etc. If I need it I carry it.
 
There used to be a shelter there, there is obvious cut off trail from the Garfield trail that skips the summit and goes direct to the pond. Its not a great water source, the shelters water source is much better.

The trail down to Garfield Pond is indeed very obvious in a turn at about 3870'. Coming up from the pond however, not so much. The weather was lousy so on the way back I took this cut off to go back to Garfield Trail rather than reclimb Garfield for nothing. The ledges were all very wet and slick. From the GRT side there were numerous paths heading toward the pond and still more side paths to camp spots. Wasn't entirely sure if I was in drainage beds or the trail because it is so wet. Most of the clearings along the pond were under water so I don't know if the footpath was there and concealed or if I was totally off the actual path. I followed the maze to dead ends several times. Eventually I used enough overgrown paths along the pond that I hit several large clearings and a distinct trail headed up hill and brought me to the obvious junction. Major distance and time saver. I think it saved nearly a mile based on my "out" distance.
 
Water was a non issue. I carried 3L and only wound up drinking 2L.

So, it sounds like an alternative would have been to carry one liter of water and a filter? Did you find that carrying an extra few pounds of water made much difference in your hiking performance?
 
So, it sounds like an alternative would have been to carry one liter of water and a filter? Did you find that carrying an extra few pounds of water made much difference in your hiking performance?

It depends. On hikes I have never done before I don't like to plan on a source that doesn't wind up being there (dry river, not able to find a spring that was on the route, etc) an almost always carry too much water. On hikes I know I'm usually much more aggressive with the water management because I'll have a good idea of where I can filter, the effort level involved, etc. For example, on a hike like the Bonds I'll usually walk 6-7 miles with maybe 16 oz of water and then filter 2-3L at the 2nd crossing of Black Brook. Not having that 5-6 lbs on your back for that long of a distance definitely is noticeable. The more climbing that is involved is generally where I'll notice it most. Last weekend I did a loop up Castles via Isreal Ridge and Link, across Gulfside and down Lowes Path. I started with 1L, filtered another 1L where the river crosses just before Link and then filtered another 2L or so in the spring at the top of the Castle Trail (well technically it was in the running water under the rocks because there was about 4' of snow on top of the actual spring). I could certainly have done that hike carrying 3L from the get go but it was more comfortable not having the extra weight.
 
One of the many skills acquired sectioning the AT is dealing with water. In order to get in the miles, keeping pack weight low is important and I think most folks are far better at getting the credit card out and buying super light weight gear than managing water. Even 25 years ago the AT maps and the AT data book gave a very good view ahead of water sources and current electronics databases are even more accurate. I started out carrying the entire days needed water but over the course of subsequent trips I figured out that there is no need if there is known reliable source ahead. I generally use chemical treatment, Aquamira, which does introduce a bit more challenge than a filter in that the chemicals generally need an hour (or more if the water is very cold) in order for the water to be treated. Thus I tend to have a reserve 500 ML Gatorade full bottle in the pack most of the time during the day. When backpacking I force myself to take a 5 minute break every hour even in the morning as I find it extends the overall hours I can hike in a day. I usually plan at least some of the breaks at water sources so I just keep the treatment handy and first thing I do is mix the components. The two components need to react for five minutes to get the telltale green color and chlorine dioxide odor and the last thing I do at the end of the break is add it to the bottles and head out. I also believe in drinking a lot of water before heading out of camp in the morning.

This method can sometimes be an issue down south especially in the summer and fall, unlike the AT in New England that tends to be somewhat perpendicular to the ridge lines where valleys are frequently crossed, much of the southern AT is ridge running for miles if not days. This is great for cranking out miles as the actually daily profile change can be quite minimal but not so good for water, as water generally flows down hill to the base of the ridgeline. Generally the water sources are in minor saddles in the ridge line and during a typical summer the primary water sources can and will be dry up high. In PA, there was a couple of shelters that had Water Source #1, Water Source ##2 and Water Source #3. They were all basically the same drainage, just at different elevations heading down the ridge with #3 usually several hundred feet vertical down slope. At more than a few shelters they warn hikers that the water source is way down the side of the mountain and that's where a large empty water bladder is of some value as you only really want to head down the slope once to fill up. Over 10 years of sectioning we really only had one trip where generally reliable water sources were dry and they were at shelters. In all cases we were within a hour of major stream or water body but dry camping in hot weather is not that pleasant. We knew water may be an issue on the trip and I brought my empty water bladder which consists of a ripstop nylon bag carrying a foil pouch saved from wine pouch. (It makes a nice pillow when not being used for water duty). In one case we stopped and filled up the bag up 3 miles before the shelter, the next night I spent a couple of hours pulling water out of mud seep because the normally reliable water sources at the shelter was totally dry and the last night my friend ended up digging the bottom of spring out about a foot deeper and dipping it out with cup. In all three cases, if we were desperate we could have put in few more miles and gotten to a more reliable source.

This actually can also be an issue in Maine, the original AT shelters and campsites tended to be in valleys, this may have been good for water but no so good as that meant they were usually close to roads and subject to a lot of car campers and fisherman both of whom could cause abuse and trash at the shelter. When the AT was substantially relocated in the 1980s due to the land claims settlement in addition to the NPS taking over the trail, the new shelters tended to be built up on the ridgeline nearer to the high point of the ridge and well away from more casual "drive in" users. Starting at Carlo and Full Goose in the Mahoosucs, there are several potentially dry shelters along the AT in western maine, Hall Mountain and Bemis both being somewhat notorious. There are very good water sources at the base of these potentially dry shelters and over the years informal and now formal sites have reappeared in the valleys on occasion. On my AT boundary section there is beautiful spot with picnic table near a wide stream in Sawyer Notch (no longer car accessible) and a new official campsite with composting privy has just appeared off South Arm road. This area has numerous bootleg sites adjacent to the stream and no sanitary facilities so I expect the club just decided controlled camping set back from the stream with a privy is better than the alternative.
 
Sawyer Notch is nice place on the AT in Maine, big wide stream with a gravel bed. I expect brookies are out and about. I used to access my boundary section from the south but a combination of a landowner feud with the town of Andover over the town taking over the road and a new landowner at the end of the road who posted it means the only way to get to it is over Hall mountain or over Moody mountain. Makes for a long day to check boundary on Hall mountain. Just a bit south of the campsite is the only stinging nettle patch I was aware of in Maine (found out while I was wearing shorts one day).
 
I don't agree with the contention of no need to treat the Garfield Pond water but of course some folks are lucky and are willing to risk giardiasis and other waterborne pathogens as it usually takes a couple of days to kick in.

Some of us may have built up some immunity or resistance, as well. I grew up by a lake down south and swam, played in and drank from a it and a wet weather stream on our property which fed it all the time as a kid. I've always drunk from running brooks in the mountains without filtering or treating, with no noted ill effects. I steer clear of fetid and stiller waters, however.
 
A rather famous refrain by many thru hikers after they are treated for giardia. The person I hiked with never treated water for 40 years of hunting and fishing, he got nailed from a spring in the 100 mile wilderness and ended up with an IV in his arm three days later and 30 pounds lighter. I know of some of the first people in the whites in the 1970s to get giardia in the Great Gulf when the local doctors didn't think it was in the area and was a Western US issue. One of them went through 6 months of various treatments by his employer (a hospital) before he demanded to be treated for giardia and was fine after that. I think it hard to get but play the lottery long enough and you will loose.
 
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