Great Gully And Chemin des Dames

When I went on my "ravine" kick a few years ago I never did get around to hitting these two trails so I'm trying to line them up for the next few weeks. Have a few questions on the two:

1)AMC Guide says the Great Gully Trail often holds snow well into June. Given the past Winter I'm wondering if it still does. Anybody been on this trail recently or maybe gone up Airline and had a peek in the ravine? I zig-zagged through the lower parts of Castle Ravine a few weeks ago and there was zero snow so I figured it would be fine but reading the AMC Guide has made me wonder.

2)Would I have a glimpse into the potential snow area in Great Gully before Chemin des Dames junction? Figure if I can see there is snow I can go up Chemin at least and check one trail off my list. It sounds like Great Gully is in small trees and scrub for awhile though so I didn't know if I'd be able to see if there was any snow until I was walking in it. Should I bring spikes ( )?

3)Is Chemin des Dames tough to descend? It doesn't sound like it has any actual scrambles, just rough and rugged boulder work. I wouldn't have an issue descending King Ravine Trail and Chemin des Dames appears similar. Any comments on that? Debating if I might descend this way after going up Great Gully and coming across Gulfside or possibly going up Airline to avoid the muddy approach to floor of ravine/lot of the boulder scrambling and drop down Chemin to pick up Great Gully (they appear to intersect fairly close together).

Any feedback on the possibility of snow and other route considerations would be appreciated.

Can't speak for the other questions, but if you wouldn't have an issue descending King Ravine then Chemin is totally fine. I remember there was one little scramble under a boulder on the way up, but other than that it's just steep with some minor loose footing.

Great Gully climbs the "seven" in Kings Ravine. What is left of the seven snowfield is visible from Walmart. There is still some snow patches visible. The Subway is still probably impassable but the Elevated skips the most significant part of subway although if I remember correctly the Great Gully junction is immediately after the interesting part of the Subway. You can see most of the lower Great Gully from the floor of the ravine but not sure if you can see up to the upper headwall. I have only done Chemise des Dames once but dont remember it as being that challenging and therefore down climbable. Great Gully's route is in an active stream bed for a distance and expect the melting snow will make it darn cold. I would suggest giving it a few weeks.

peakbagger said:

Great Gully climbs the "seven" in Kings Ravine. What is left of the seven snowfield is visible from Walmart. There is still some snow patches visible. The Subway is still probably impassable but the Elevated skips the most significant part of subway although if I remember correctly the Great Gully junction is immediately after the interesting part of the Subway. You can see most of the lower Great Gully from the floor of the ravine but not sure if you can see up to the upper headwall. I have only done Chemise des Dames once but dont remember it as being that challenging and therefore down climbable. Great Gully's route is in an active stream bed for a distance and expect the melting snow will make it darn cold. I would suggest giving it a few weeks.

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Thanks. I will never be doing Subway again. I am very claustrophobic and 2 of the 4 squeezes were too much for me. I climbed up and over them which was quite dangerous. Loved the rest of that section though but it'll be a "one time" trip most likely. I want to do the "elevated" part of King Ravine Trail for comparison so I'd likely go that way next time.

Is the terrain in "the 7" safe enough to do with crampons and maybe an ice axe (i.e. just steep rocks with snow filled in) or are we talking rock hard snow near precipitous drops)? Might add a fun element if we're just talking about kicking steps in small patches of soft, wet snow, especially if there are small trees and scrub for grabbing. Whatever snow is left must be pretty soft by now. Then again I don't want to be in this week's SAR update. Is it possible to bushwhack in that area or is it pretty much the trail or nothing?

You wouldn't have a photo of this "7" by any chance would you? I searched in google images but the photos all showed the ravine full of snow. One site had a red line superimposed over a winter route but that looked more like a ? and I guess bypassed "the ledge" described in Guide.

Going down Chemise des dames is doable, some large boulders to get around and steep, but it's not awful. That being said, it's not a trail I would choose to go down. If you've gone down Boott Spur link, it's slightly harder, but close. I've soled the Great Gully when it was still snow covered. It was spring snow, soft yet firm enough to take an axe. I used what I always use on snow climbs here and out West. One 70cm axe, one 50cm axe and full 12 point crampons. Yes, there is fall potential, but that is typically the case on snow gullies, that's why I use two axes.

I didn't find Boott Spur link all that hard, but I've only gone up it. I'm expecting Chemin to be like that stretch on Wamsutta where the trail plunges down 600' in about 0.3 miles. I descended that way after a lengthy loop and it was a full blown workout, with constant drops of 3-5' (and one very tricky wet 20' ledge that I actually lowered myself down to a 6" ledge by hanging from a tree root). It never felt dangerous (except the one ledge) but I was breathing as hard descending as I did climbing earlier. That doesn't happen too often.

I posted a similar question on Facebook and a guy posted a picture of King Ravine from a week ago and the snow looked minimal on the headwall and he at least claims none was on trail. Sounded like he went up to Mt Adams that way and down Chemin, which is more or less what I had planned, but he didn't specifically say he did Great Gully. He did say he descended Chemin and Airline was like a stream so I am assuming he went up Great Gully based on this.

I only have one 75cm general purpose axe and 10 pt crampons. I've never done any technical climbing. If we're talking about traversing 20-30' patches of steep wet snow I'd probably proceed as planned. If there are lengthy patches with exposure I'd likely bail on it.

I always hate to speculate when answering conditions questions, because I don't want to mislead anyone with no first hand knowledge. So, here I am speculating. I did the route when there was still a lot of snow, there is no way there is that much now, given how hot it's been. That being said, the GG lies in the most sheltered area of the ravine. Given you will still have melt time, I'd say just go up and look at it, you can always turn around. Sometimes it's fun, no to know, what your going to get. Have fun at the big boulder.

Peakbagger has never given me bad info so when Facebook suggested snow free I was suspicious. I've been going back and forth a bit and it definitely has been holding snow in places on the actual trail. Several people posted picks, one with a hiker on it. Looks like a late season patch, maybe 100' long and the guy is barebooting it. What I did NOT like though was how severely undermined the patch he is on is from underneath in right corner of the photo they shared. Not sure if he was even aware of this. I'd be totally fine walking the snow field he is on but I do not want to drop through a hole 20' deep into an ice cave doing it. Think I'm gonna post pone this one for awhile.

sierra said:

Sometimes it's fun, no to know, what your going to get.

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Agreed. I was getting into the habit of asking too many questions and checking too many trip reports awhile back and have really cut back on that. It does take the fun out of hikes, avoiding this that and the the other thing instead of just going up there and figuring it out.

DayTrip said:

Agreed. I was getting into the habit of asking too many questions and checking too many trip reports awhile back and have really cut back on that. It does take the fun out of hikes, avoiding this that and the the other thing instead of just going up there and figuring it out.

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If you didn't like the subway you might not love the lemon squeezer on Chemin Des Dames. It's definitely a rough but non-technical descent. That last ledge going down Wamsutta is definitely more difficult. The entrance to CDD is pretty wild looking. Never done Great Gully. Good luck!

TJsName said:

If you didn't like the subway you might not love the lemon squeezer on Chemin Des Dames. It's definitely a rough but non-technical descent. That last ledge going down Wamsutta is definitely more difficult. The entrance to CDD is pretty wild looking. Never done Great Gully. Good luck!

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Someone had a photo of that spot (Tunnel Rock?) on Facebook a few weeks ago and it looked OK to me. I hadn't seen any photos of the spot until that point so I was a bit concerned about it because it sounded tight.

DayTrip said:

Someone had a photo of that spot (Tunnel Rock?) on Facebook a few weeks ago and it looked OK to me. I hadn't seen any photos of the spot until that point so I was a bit concerned about it because it sounded tight.

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I had to take my pack off to get through, but I'm a pretty big dude (6'4"/280). My partner made is through without any issues. I don't recall if it would have been possible to make it over it as I wasn't considering it. Chris Daily has a good picture of it here - just let all the pics load and search for 'lemon'. It actually looks like there is one on Great Gully too.

TJsName said:

I had to take my pack off to get through, but I'm a pretty big dude (6'4"/280). My partner made is through without any issues. I don't recall if it would have been possible to make it over it as I wasn't considering it. Chris Daily has a good picture of it here - just let all the pics load and search for 'lemon'. It actually looks like there is one on Great Gully too.

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Thanks. Excellent link. And also......HOLY F$%K!! They did all of that as a single 12 hour hike!?!?!? WOW. That is a full Summer of 12 hour hikes for me. My respect level for Chris's hiking background was already pretty high but that just brought it up exponentially.

DayTrip said:

Thanks. Excellent link. And also......HOLY F$%K!! They did all of that as a single 12 hour hike!?!?!? WOW. That is a full Summer of 12 hour hikes for me. My respect level for Chris's hiking background was already pretty high but that just brought it up exponentially.

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I know - it's amazing. Plus he's taking pictures the whole time. He does a great job capturing the more interesting parts of the hikes.

DayTrip said:

.HOLY F$%K!! They did all of that as a single 12 hour hike!?!?!? WOW. That is a full Summer of 12 hour hikes for me. My respect level for Chris's hiking background was already pretty high but that just brought it up exponentially.

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Chris Daly is not human.

Which do folks think is more challenging, going up King Ravine and down CDD or vice versa.

NHClimber said:

Which do folks think is more challenging, going up King Ravine and down CDD or vice versa.

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SAT I went up Chemin Des Dames in a steady rain and everything was pretty wet and slick but I didn't have any real issues, even with some pretty worn trail runners. Obviously I took my time and was very careful but I didn't encounter anything that made me nervous. And "Tunnel Rock" was not bad at all even for someone with claustrophobia like me (I did have to remove my pack though to squeeze up through it). On a dry day I'd have no reservations about descending this way. It is pretty steep but much of it is in scrub and small trees and had very few actual scrambles. I can only recall one actual ledge that was maybe 8-10' in height with only a few fairly narrow cracks to climb up on. The lower third of trail is a boulder field but they aren't large and were easily negotiated. Nothing nearly as big as the floor of the ravine. And the trail leaves up the rim of ravine immediately before the Subway/Elevated split so you don't deal with any of that (although there is a decent stretch of big boulders heading down King Ravine to Mossy Falls which is awkward in either direction).

I think the issue with any descent back into King Ravine would be renegotiating the huge boulders in the base and out to Short Line or King Ravine trails. At the end of a possibly long day I think this section would prove much tougher than it seemed climbing it earlier.