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Thread: Wow - Black Pond "Bushwhack"

  1. #31
    Member TomK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    It will be interesting if the AMC four thousand committee will remove Owls Head from the list as per club policy there is no legal way to access it Same thing for the AMC guide, do they remove the description?
    I read the post as referring to a NH Chapter policy for NH Chapter activities. If it is a NH Chapter policy, I don't see why it would apply to hikes lead by other chapters, even if the hike took place in NH, nor to things done under the umbrella of other parts of the AMC, like the AMC WM Guide, or the various lists.

    I think I saw a recent hike description in the CT Chapter activity email that included a short bushwhack. I didn't go on that hike, but I got the impression from the hike description that the bushwhack, while short, would be more than 500 feet, so if it *isn't* simply a NH Chapter policy, then clearly the CT chapter hasn't gotten the news....

    TomK
    Never loved your plains, your gentle valleys/Your drowsy country lanes and pleached alleys.
    I want my hills, the trail that scorns the hollow/Up, up the ragged shale where few will follow.

    High on my hills of dream, dear hills that know me/And then how fair will seem the lands below me
    How pure at vesper time, the far bells chiming/God, give me strength to climb, and hills for climbing. "Hills" - Arthur Guiterman

  2. #32
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    Map shows the location of Mega(anti search text)lithia. Interesting. Not sure how I feel about that. The resource will be useful for me, that is for sure.

  3. #33
    Senior Member nartreb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Map shows the location of Mega(anti search text)lithia. Interesting. Not sure how I feel about that. The resource will be useful for me, that is for sure.
    Wait, what? In New England?? First I've ever heard of their existence... Can you PM me with a few examples / photos?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nartreb View Post
    Wait, what? In New England?? First I've ever heard of their existence... Can you PM me with a few examples / photos?
    It's what the dudes who made Pumpelly called it.

  5. #35
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca M View Post
    re: AMC (NH Chapter) leader information: "Accepted Peer Practices" - "AMC leaders must keep to trails and may not bushwhack, or lead groups to any area more than 500' from the trail....Thus, for example, Owls Head, etc. are off limits to AMC hikes."

    Owl's Head was a very popular hike but now we cannot lead hikes there, unfortunately. It is what it is!
    Hummm,

    You can get to the base of the Owl's Head slide easily via valid trails.

    So, is the slide and bit to the (moveable) summit the "Bushwhack?" part?

    Seems like the slide can't be considered a bushwhack since North Tri and many other peaks have bonafide routes up slides.

    This rule seems a bit arbitrary and slightly screwy to me.

    cb
    How many 4Ks in the NE100?
    All of em.

  6. #36
    Senior Member iAmKrzys's Avatar
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    The strava heatmap is also useful for finding out what trails are NOT busy e.g. try to find Catamount cross country ski trail south of Bucklin Trail (but you will find routes up Mendon): https://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#14.....61964/hot/run
    Interesting...

  7. #37
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    Hummm,

    You can get to the base of the Owl's Head slide easily via valid trails.

    So, is the slide and bit to the (moveable) summit the "Bushwhack?" part?

    Seems like the slide can't be considered a bushwhack since North Tri and many other peaks have bonafide routes up slides.

    This rule seems a bit arbitrary and slightly screwy to me.

    cb
    Yeah, it's the slide that's the bushwhack if you follow maintained trails to the start. It's easier to follow than some actual maintained trails. For those who haven't done it, it's not really one to brag about your "route finding skills" after finishing. Pretty straight forward.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

  8. #38
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    It will be interesting if the AMC four thousand committee will remove Owls Head from the list as per club policy there is no legal way to access it Same thing for the AMC guide, do they remove the description?
    And what about that newly minted 4K in Maine, Redington?

    There is a flagged trail off the summit of South Crocker heading directly to Redington. It follows the line of the old bushwhack, but is it now an official trail?

    In reality, how can any four thousand footer in New England not have a trail, given the popularity of peak-bagging 4Ks?

    And what sense is there in not leading a trip to a 4K peak on the official NH or Maine list?

    Draconian craziness!!

    cb
    How many 4Ks in the NE100?
    All of em.

  9. #39
    Senior Member akafuzzjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Boss View Post
    FWIW, Caltopo populates Mapbuilder Topo with trails sourced from OpenStreetMap. Here's the entry for "Brutus Bushwhack". It was created by someone in May 2016 and then updated by another person (twice) this spring.

    It's interesting to note that whoever drew it, did not connect the two ends to the existing trails. The same is true for the Black Pond Bushwhack. I assume this is not an oversight (the most recent map editor has a history of over 90 edits) but possibly intentional. I don't know the reason but one possibility is that it prevents auto-routing (i.e. using software to automatically create a route from Lincoln Woods to Owls Head via the Brutus Bushwhack).
    Thanks for this and the heat map a two total wastes of time that I donít need when Iím on vacation and supposed to be doing stuff around the house.
    Reaching the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. (Ed Viesturs)

    Three-Season 4K: NH 4K Grid #69, ADK 46, NH 48 x 12, New England 67 X 3, and Northeast 115 X 2
    Winter 4K: ADK 46, NH 48 x 2, New England 67, and Northeast 115
    Others: CO 14ers 24/58, NEHH 96/100, Catskills 7/35, Saranac Lake Ultra 6, Lake George 12 Ultra, and Belknap 12 "Ultra"
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  10. #40
    Senior Member akafuzzjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomK View Post
    I read the post as referring to a NH Chapter policy for NH Chapter activities. If it is a NH Chapter policy, I don't see why it would apply to hikes lead by other chapters, even if the hike took place in NH, nor to things done under the umbrella of other parts of the AMC, like the AMC WM Guide, or the various lists.

    I think I saw a recent hike description in the CT Chapter activity email that included a short bushwhack. I didn't go on that hike, but I got the impression from the hike description that the bushwhack, while short, would be more than 500 feet, so if it *isn't* simply a NH Chapter policy, then clearly the CT chapter hasn't gotten the news....

    TomK
    While I haven’t activley led much with the Boston Chapter I’ve heard the same thing from them regarding the whacks to Owls Head being off limits.
    Reaching the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. (Ed Viesturs)

    Three-Season 4K: NH 4K Grid #69, ADK 46, NH 48 x 12, New England 67 X 3, and Northeast 115 X 2
    Winter 4K: ADK 46, NH 48 x 2, New England 67, and Northeast 115
    Others: CO 14ers 24/58, NEHH 96/100, Catskills 7/35, Saranac Lake Ultra 6, Lake George 12 Ultra, and Belknap 12 "Ultra"
    Trail Adopter: Caps Ridge Trail from Trailhead to Summit of Jefferson
    Organizer: Random Group of Hikers (www.meetup.com/rndmhkrs)

  11. #41
    Senior Member akafuzzjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Yeah, it's the slide that's the bushwhack if you follow maintained trails to the start. It's easier to follow than some actual maintained trails. For those who haven't done it, it's not really one to brag about your "route finding skills" after finishing. Pretty straight forward.
    It’s not the slide but rather the entire route - while it looks like a trail there is no official trai even beyond the slide. I remember the first time we did it was right when the “new” summit was identified and it was a true whack from old to new. Now it’s a trail.

    It has to do with the Wilderness Protection Plan and the zone in which Owls Head is located. I don’t have the link handy but there are certain rules for straying off a defined path where there is a WPP and getting to Owls Head violates those rules regarding distance from the trail and how you need to travel within a particular zone.
    Reaching the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. (Ed Viesturs)

    Three-Season 4K: NH 4K Grid #69, ADK 46, NH 48 x 12, New England 67 X 3, and Northeast 115 X 2
    Winter 4K: ADK 46, NH 48 x 2, New England 67, and Northeast 115
    Others: CO 14ers 24/58, NEHH 96/100, Catskills 7/35, Saranac Lake Ultra 6, Lake George 12 Ultra, and Belknap 12 "Ultra"
    Trail Adopter: Caps Ridge Trail from Trailhead to Summit of Jefferson
    Organizer: Random Group of Hikers (www.meetup.com/rndmhkrs)

  12. #42
    Member TomK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akafuzzjones View Post
    While I havenít activley led much with the Boston Chapter Iíve heard the same thing from them regarding the whacks to Owls Head being off limits.
    But in theory, someone could lead a hike to the base of the slide, and then declare a 3 hour "seperation break", right?

    TomK
    Never loved your plains, your gentle valleys/Your drowsy country lanes and pleached alleys.
    I want my hills, the trail that scorns the hollow/Up, up the ragged shale where few will follow.

    High on my hills of dream, dear hills that know me/And then how fair will seem the lands below me
    How pure at vesper time, the far bells chiming/God, give me strength to climb, and hills for climbing. "Hills" - Arthur Guiterman

  13. #43
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    I remember three groups wanting to get to Owlie in Winter. All three leaders had agreed to staggered start times, and the plan was that when each later group caught up, they'd would take over trail breaking. Well, it ended up that all three groups (24-ish people) all came together at the bowl on the skidder road. We tried, at least, but nobody volunteered to sit around and get cold ...

    Tim
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Map shows the location of Mega(anti search text)lithia. Interesting. Not sure how I feel about that. The resource will be useful for me, that is for sure.
    That's the most interesting thing to me in this thread...these Strava maps show all sorts of bootleg trails and several so-called secrets on Monadnock. But they're not labelled as far as I can see...you have to already know what these bootleg heat spots are, although if you know the general area of some of these spots, these maps could provide the final clues.

    P.S. The biggest so-called secret on Monadnock (mentioned earlier here) is visible on Google Earth anyways; if you know the general area you can see it.
    Steve H.
    NH4000 1976-1984
    NE4000 1984-1991

  15. #45
    Senior Member jniehof's Avatar
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    If you're an AMC leader, check in with your chapter if you're planning on leading Owl's Head...if you're not, and carry a guide card, presumably you've heard from the WMNF regarding your obligations. If you don't carry a guide card, either you don't need one and shouldn't worry, or you do need one, and have other worries.

    The 4000-footer committee publishes a list of their criteria and "AMC allowed to lead organized trips to the summit" isn't one that I've seen on the list. Redington, surprisingly enough, is not affected by WMNF policies regarding organized off-trail trips in Wilderness, being neither in the WMNF, nor in designated Wilderness, nor on Forest Service property.

    This is a non-issue for most people.

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