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Thread: New Book on Kate M.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    If the water is kept in close to your body it will stay liquid indefinitely. If packed directly behind the middle of your back it will stay liquid. If not it needs to be carried on your person.
    Dead bodies don't produce much heat.

  2. #32
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    Dead bodies don't produce much heat.
    Agreed...but not the context or scenario I was referring to. Excuse me if I misconstrued the poster's comment in which I quoted.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  3. #33
    Senior Member jniehof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougPaul View Post
    Actually, given the weather, I was thinking of the ground searchers. Even if the ground-to-ground range was only 100 ft, it could have been helpful. She was found by a visual sighting at a fairly short range.
    Having done my share of foxhunts (including one I "won" with just an HT and the body-nulling technique), I agree I can't see any obvious reason a ground search couldn't make use of the VHF homing signal. It may be interesting to try sometime (on 2m) and see how badly the signal gets reflected...not sure I can think of a way to do it that is sensitive to alpine vegetation.

  4. #34
    Senior Member DougPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jniehof View Post
    Having done my share of foxhunts (including one I "won" with just an HT and the body-nulling technique), I agree I can't see any obvious reason a ground search couldn't make use of the VHF homing signal. It may be interesting to try sometime (on 2m) and see how badly the signal gets reflected...not sure I can think of a way to do it that is sensitive to alpine vegetation.
    While I have not participated in a foxhunt, I was thinking of them when I wrote my comment. (I have used an AM radio to DF (direction find) a powerline arc which caused local radio and TV interference.) Just following the signal strength would generally lead a searcher to the victim, although perhaps not as quickly as a DF. (Such techniques are used by avalanche beacons.)

    Another possibility would be for an aircraft (from an altitude which is too high for an accurate location) to explore the terrain shading and perhaps determine which side of the mountain she was on. Such a technique might have been able to determine which of the several early locations was more likely and might have directed the searchers more accurately on the first day.

    However these techniques require special skills and I don't know if they are taught to search pilots. And even if they are, they might be difficult to apply given the conditions. I also don't know what equipment is carried in the aircraft--it could range from a purpose-built DF (ie usually pretty accurate)*, to a moderately directional fixed antenna (typically a several element yagi)**, to an omnidirectional antenna.

    * Some aircraft carry DF equipment to determine the bearing to navigational beacons.
    ** I have seen videos of these being used to track wildlife from the ground and air.

    Doug
    Last edited by DougPaul; 09-12-2017 at 02:35 PM.

  5. #35
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    Reading the book now. Pretty good. Confirms what I had suspected and read and discussed on a couple of message boards after the event. Tragic how close she came to not dying at several points in her journey.

    Finished it last night. Learned something about Kate and managing risk. I believe I understand her better and understand why she felt she could complete, at least, hiking Adams. Her personality drove her to make decisions that I would make differently, just because I err on the side of caution, and she didn't know when to quit and give up. The full frozen water bottles tells me that she barely hydrated and her food choices were not the high energy, calorie dense, foods I'm used to eating when I hike. She was trying to stick to a rigid schedule and set a goal that was ambitious in good weather in Summer. Exhaustion leads to hypothermia. Ty does a real good job explaining what our bodies do to try to survive when it is out of energy to burn.

    The book is a well written cautionary tale on how our personalities and how we are individually wired can affect our decisions.
    Last edited by egilbe; 09-13-2017 at 07:04 AM.

  6. #36
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Finally got my copy this week too and read in two sittings (and I'm quote sure it would have one session had I not started it so late in the evening the first night). Thought the book was outstanding. Author had an excellent writing style that kept the pages turning despite being non fiction. Loved all the comparisons to various risk assessment strategies in real life and how he applied them in a very concise fashion to the particulars of the Matrosova story. Learning all the facts about her gear, GPS data,etc really helped clarify the situation with all the erroneous information and opinions that were floating around out there. I also liked the SAR angle that he delved into to illustrate exactly how dangerous going out after someone can be. Even the quotes starting each chapter were pretty cool. Best book by far that I've read covering this topic. Highly, highly recommend.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 44/48; NY 46: 5/46

  7. #37
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    Feel free to PM me if you don't want to add it to your permanent library.

  8. #38
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Feel free to PM me if you don't want to add it to your permanent library.
    It's definitely going to be a member of the permanent library. Excellent read. Worth the $$$ if you read lots of these types of books (and I suspect you do).
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 44/48; NY 46: 5/46

  9. #39
    Member TomK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougPaul View Post
    While I have not participated in a foxhunt, I was thinking of them when I wrote my comment. (I have used an AM radio to DF (direction find) a powerline arc which caused local radio and TV interference.) Just following the signal strength would generally lead a searcher to the victim, although perhaps not as quickly as a DF. (Such techniques are used by avalanche beacons.)

    Another possibility would be for an aircraft (from an altitude which is too high for an accurate location) to explore the terrain shading and perhaps determine which side of the mountain she was on. Such a technique might have been able to determine which of the several early locations was more likely and might have directed the searchers more accurately on the first day.

    However these techniques require special skills and I don't know if they are taught to search pilots. And even if they are, they might be difficult to apply given the conditions. I also don't know what equipment is carried in the aircraft--it could range from a purpose-built DF (ie usually pretty accurate)*, to a moderately directional fixed antenna (typically a several element yagi)**, to an omnidirectional antenna.

    * Some aircraft carry DF equipment to determine the bearing to navigational beacons.
    ** I have seen videos of these being used to track wildlife from the ground and air.

    Doug
    While with the NH CAP, besides practices, I had three "finds" of Emergency Locator Transmitters, one from the air, one on the ground, and one where I narrowed down the area from the air, landed, and used ground equipment to complete the find. Fortunately for the owner's of the ELTs involved, each was the result of an inadvertent activation of the ELT rather than an actual distress. The equipment at the time only indicated "left of you", "right of you", or "either directly ahead or directly behind". Still, was fairly straightforward to do, with a little practice. But I had good conditions, although that air/ground one was at night and very cold, but not much wind.

    We learned about terrain blocking and/or reflecting signals. Also, you could raise or drop a wing, and use the aircraft wing to block signal reception, and if the signal dropped when you did this, you knew the aircraft wing was between the transmitting and receiving antennas.

    Yesterday, spoke to a friend still in the NH CAP, he says the equipment they have is now much better, will show you bearing, signal strength. Also will display the serial # of the unit, and GPS coordinates, *if* the transmitting unit transmits that info. Can't imagine bouncing around 5,000 feet above Adams and getting much useful accomplished though.

    Bought the book a couple days ago, about halfway through it. It is excellent so far, and would not hesitate to recomend it.

    TomK
    Never loved your plains, your gentle valleys/Your drowsy country lanes and pleached alleys.
    I want my hills, the trail that scorns the hollow/Up, up the ragged shale where few will follow.

    High on my hills of dream, dear hills that know me/And then how fair will seem the lands below me
    How pure at vesper time, the far bells chiming/God, give me strength to climb, and hills for climbing. "Hills" - Arthur Guiterman

  10. #40
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jniehof View Post
    It may be interesting to try sometime (on 2m) and see how badly the signal gets reflected...
    Speaking of 2M and ham radio...

    I wonder if a 2M handheld would be a lot more reliable than a cell phone throughout the whites, using the Mt Wash ham radio repeater on 144 Mhz.

    Of course every hiker isn't gonna get a ham license, but for those who already have one?

    KA1D
    How many 4Ks in the NE100?
    All of em.

  11. #41
    Member TomK's Avatar
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    Back when I used to backpack solo, (well before cell-phone days) I'd take the aviation band handi-talkie I used for a back-up in the airplane along with me on backpacks. Figured in a pinch I'd be able to get a message to someone....

    TomK
    Never loved your plains, your gentle valleys/Your drowsy country lanes and pleached alleys.
    I want my hills, the trail that scorns the hollow/Up, up the ragged shale where few will follow.

    High on my hills of dream, dear hills that know me/And then how fair will seem the lands below me
    How pure at vesper time, the far bells chiming/God, give me strength to climb, and hills for climbing. "Hills" - Arthur Guiterman

  12. #42
    Senior Member DougPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    Speaking of 2M and ham radio...

    I wonder if a 2M handheld would be a lot more reliable than a cell phone throughout the whites, using the Mt Wash ham radio repeater on 144 Mhz.

    Of course every hiker isn't gonna get a ham license, but for those who already have one?

    KA1D
    Might be. There are a number of repeaters around the Whites.

    He hasn't posted in quite a while, but there used to be a ham who was active on this BBS. IIRC, he said that he could reach a repeater from most places in the Whites. Deep remote valleys were the least likely places. He carried a twin-lead J-pole antenna and some cord so he could rig a high antenna in weak-signal locations.

    Doug
    WB2QJE

  13. #43
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougPaul View Post
    Might be. There are a number of repeaters around the Whites.

    He hasn't posted in quite a while, but there used to be a ham who was active on this BBS. IIRC, he said that he could reach a repeater from most places in the Whites. Deep remote valleys were the least likely places. He carried a twin-lead J-pole antenna and some cord so he could rig a high antenna in weak-signal locations
    Doug
    WB2QJE
    Lots of possibilities going on with Ham Radio in the White Mountains. Just have to get out there and educate yourself.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  14. #44
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    I came across a copy at The White Mountain Cafe. I may need to set aside two other books I'm half heartedly reading.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

  15. #45
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    After finishing "Where You'll Find Me," I want to thank Ty Gagne. He did an outstanding analysis of the entire situation and was able to report on what was going on simultaneously in numerous locales leading up to the eventual recovery. It was compassionate and thorough. Most importantly, perhaps Ty's book will help many of us to have closure to an incident that shook the foundation of the valley. Although Kate's life is worth no more and no less than another's, her story allows us to connect with all who are driven to seek the summits and push limits. My heart breaks for her husband Charlie and I finish the story with the wish that Kate had been more familiar with what the Northern Presidentials can be. Her hand written itinerary on page 9 may be the single most telling piece of evidence in the story in that regard. As many have said, rest in peace Kate. Perhaps your life and story will lead to others living. And to Ty. Someone had to tell this story. You wrote an admirable, honorable, thorough, and compassionate story. Thank you.

    The other tale of course is of the rescuers themselves. The F&G officers, volunteers, pilots and crew, and all others who held up hope until they sought simply to bring closure. It's clear in this book how S&R is a calling for all involved whether part of a job description or not. Thank you to these men and women as well. The story highlights their dedication, a dedication they bring many, many times when stories are not told.

    Scott
    Last edited by Raven; 09-23-2017 at 11:07 AM.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

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