Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 38

Thread: Cog looking at running snow cats to the summit

  1. #16
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,073
    It’s all cooling down.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  2. #17
    Senior Member kltilton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North Conway, NH Avatar: Skiing on Ethan Pond Trail
    Posts
    375
    The right-of-way is 99 ft. wide. Subtract about 8-10 for the track, then divide by 2. This leaves about 45 ft. on each side. An FIS spec nordic trail is 9 meters = 29.5 ft. Seems wide enough to groom, unfortunately.

  3. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    4,910

  4. #19
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,073
    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    LMAO...interesting how the picture in this article actually shows hikers on the so called road.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  5. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    309
    Are the Cog Train and the Auto Road a zero sum game? Is the proposed Cog hotel a threat to the Glen House Hotel occupancy rate? The two ownership groups certainly seem to behave that way at those Summit meetings.

    Can I legally take the Cog Train or Auto Road to the summit in the summer and hike back down the Tuckerman Ravine trail? Or is that only allowed by the USFS's leave? Hard to understand how that is different than using either method in the winter to ski down Tucks?

    The concern that either company providing this winter service to the summit would enable less experienced skiers to attempt to ski Tucks is probably a valid concern (and an interesting parallel to cell phones, GPSs, SPOTs, and PLBs allowing hikers to get themselves in trouble) but I don't understand how it can be legally disallowed if a very similar activity is allowed in the summer.

  6. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    4,910
    [QUOTE=Tom_Murphy;442066]Are the Cog Train and the Auto Road a zero sum game? Is the proposed Cog hotel a threat to the Glen House Hotel occupancy rate? The two ownership groups certainly seem to behave that way at those Summit meetings. The animosity between the parties do seem to have cranked up over recent years, both entities have been expanding their businesses and ridership year over year and both are impacted by overcrowding at the summit facilities. The state owns the septic system and they currently can limit either party from expansion by just not allowing its use outside of the current limits. Mike Pelchat the former state park manager floated a trial balloon two years ago to open the summit building during the off season to deal with hikers leaving "lilies" all around the summit but it was shot down. When the state sanitary facilities are closed there is one functioning toilet at the OBS. By putting in the cog hotel near the summit, the Cog is freed from control by the state and they plan to have their own sewer line to a septic system located on their land. If the state elects to hook up to it I expect the Cog gets the upper hand. The Auto Road does not appear to have that option to build their own equivalent facility. As Ski guy points out, hikers are using the upper utility trench as a hiking trail already and expect if the Cog hotel gets built it will be used heavily by Cog guests to go up to the summit to get in line with the obligatory summit photo. The use of the utility trench downhill of the Westside trail for hiking in non winter conditions is expressively discouraged by the Cog. It does get use in winter for winter hikers when the cog is not running. Do note that its only recently that the current owners welcomed hikers. The new parking lot down the base station road was built because the cog didn't want hikers parking in their lot unless they collected a fee. Both the Jewell and Ammo trails were officially abandoned where they entered cog property and relocated outside of cog property although the cog kept them open for their guests use.

    I don't see the two hotels significantly competing with each other, the autoroad hotel is a drive up and go into town for dinner type place with possibly some future tie in with the cross country ski area while the Cog is going to sell the Cog hotel as an adventure, basically a high end AMC experience. I expect the pricing will be significantly higher for the Cog experience.

    [/I]Can I legally take the Cog Train or Auto Road to the summit in the summer and hike back down the Tuckerman Ravine trail? Yes because the FS allows you to. Trails can only exist in certain areas of the National forest, although rarely done the FS could ban access to any location in the forest by a supervisors order, whether or not that would stand long term is another story Or is that only allowed by the USFS's leave?[/I] YES Hard to understand how that is different than using either method in the winter to ski down Tucks? The FS has to right to control use of the forest and they deemed long ago that due to the potential risks they wanted skiers to climb up to tucks.

    The concern that either company providing this winter service to the summit would enable less experienced skiers to attempt to ski Tucks is probably a valid concern (and an interesting parallel to cell phones, GPSs, SPOTs, and PLBs allowing hikers to get themselves in trouble) but I don't understand how it can be legally disallowed if a very similar activity is allowed in the summer.[/QUOTE] They were successful before in stopping the cog from offering the service, I expect they will be successful again.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 12-01-2017 at 03:31 PM.

  7. #22
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,073
    Interesting when the State wants a power line from the Summit to the base they employ the use of private land. Then the land owner actually covers up their mess up with a trail. Then people start calling it a road and grip about it. Where were these tree huggers when the State was digging their trench?
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  8. #23
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Hiking the Slickrock
    Posts
    492
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Murphy View Post
    ...

    Can I legally take the Cog Train or Auto Road to the summit in the summer and hike back down the Tuckerman Ravine trail? Or is that only allowed by the USFS's leave? Hard to understand how that is different than using either method in the winter to ski down Tucks?
    In Europe and the American West skiing big, steep bowls way above treeline is a given. And in lots of cases you climb above a lift terminus to get to the top. When you go through the gate and flip on your avi beacon you are more or less on your own.

    So why is in the east do we make such a big deal about skiing Tucks or down from the summit of Mt Wash?

    Are we wusses or what?

    cb

    Note: This winter Sugarloaf is offering cat-based skiing from the top of adjacent Burnt Mountain in basically backcountry / glade terrain. But Loafers are a special breed.
    How many 4Ks in the NE100?
    All of em.

  9. #24
    Senior Member TCD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    In Europe and the American West skiing big, steep bowls way above treeline is a given. And in lots of cases you climb above a lift terminus to get to the top. When you go through the gate and flip on your avi beacon you are more or less on your own.

    So why is in the east do we make such a big deal about skiing Tucks or down from the summit of Mt Wash?
    This might help answer your question:

    https://lawschooltuitionbubble.wordp...pita-by-state/

  10. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Gorham NH
    Posts
    4,910
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Interesting when the State wants a power line from the Summit to the base they employ the use of private land. Then the land owner actually covers up their mess up with a trail. Then people start calling it a road and grip about it. Where were these tree huggers when the State was digging their trench?
    The state doesnt have to follow county regulations and has been known to take a few shortcuts on federal requirements. The state has delegated authority from the fed for enforcing environmental standards so its one department overseeing another. The cable installation was treated as an emergency after the generator plant burned to the ground on the summit. By keeping it on privately owned land it kept it out of federal control and permitting. The distance from the base station to the summit is much shorter than the auto road and I believe the cog strip of land is much wider so the cable could be installed while the cog was running. Coo County also had far less stringent regulations in place at the time and far less enforcement. The Balsams project has made the Coos county planning and zoning completely update their rules and enforcement is now actively being done.

    Like it or not, this is posturing of the major parties for the eventual cog hotel hearing with Coos county. PR like this allows the opposition to raise funds and keep the project in the public's eye. I have little doubt that had there not been opposition to the hotel project last spring, that permits would be in place by now.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 12-01-2017 at 07:48 PM.

  11. #26
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    AHH....SKYLINE
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Interesting when the State wants a power line from the Summit to the base they employ the use of private land. Then the land owner actually covers up their mess up with a trail. Then people start calling it a road and grip about it. Where were these tree huggers when the State was digging their trench?
    I'm with you.. A snow cat up to the summit? who cares.. no one will see it anyway. Cog is an important business here in NH. They should be able to operate year round. It's their land. Their Mountain as well.

  12. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Lewiston, and Biddeford Maine
    Posts
    468
    It's not just their mountain.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NH Seacoast
    Posts
    1,542
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    Their Mountain as well.
    I didn't know Cog ownership felt they owned Mount Washington.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

  14. #29
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    AHH....SKYLINE
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    I didn't know Cog ownership felt they owned Mount Washington.
    Sure is their mountain... if you can't catch that drift and meaning then your not on track so to speak.. ha.

  15. #30
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New hampshire
    Posts
    2,361
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    Sure is their mountain... if you can't catch that drift and meaning then your not on track so to speak.. ha.
    I'm pretty familiar with the mountain and still don't get your meaning here.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •