Are We a Dying Breed?

peakbagger said:

Any Millennial ever heard of a moderated internet forum that people voluntarily contribute (apparently successfully) to read?

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I am 34, so I think I qualify.

Sure, there are some people who buy high end hear that they will never use to it's full potential, but I don't think that's a Millennial thing; I think it's a disposable income thing. I believe that my generation is the first one in many that likely won't be better off than their parents, which is largely driven by disparities is wealth distribution. Ask a millennial is they know what a pension is. Or if they expect to receive social security.

ChrisB said:

Millennials – generally defined as people born between 1982 and 2004 – are less likely than the previous generation to demand outdoor gear that stands up to extreme conditions, said Matt Powell, NPD’s senior adviser for the sports industry. He used boots as an example.

“The hardest, the most extreme condition some of these boots are going to have is walking from the Prius to the craft brewery,”

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A few comments:

People wearing clothing that represent a lifestyle that they do not actually participate in is not limited to any particular age group. Same is true of peoples choices in vehicles. Millennials are as diverse as any other age group. Millennials don't seem to be any more "phony" than any other age group.

LIMMER BOOTS - With respect to gear choices, three season footwear is one item that I have definitely prioritized comfort and weight over durability. I know the soles on my hiking sneakers are going to wear relatively quickly. My sneakers are a consumable for me since the comfort, light weight, ability to shed water, and traction are far superior to the boots I used to hike in. I think the change in footwear has strengthened my ankles and reduced fatigue. That said, I still bring my wool sweater, SVEA, and KELTY external on most trips.

Text messaging - I find it convenient to use text messages similar to emails at work; to send a message that is not time critical. I still prefer an actual conversation so I rarely engage in the test message "conversations".

I've noticed a lot of the big gear companies have been introducing lines of "urban" outdoor gear that has a lot of "high end" construction woven into trendy and stylish exteriors. If that keeps them profitable and able to make the more hiking specific gear that I want than it's fine by me. It is just kind of funny. If you read gear reviews online on various sites a lot of the reviews reflect this. You'll be looking at a high end down jacket for mountaineering and you'll find a few reviews from people who "love the jacket and it's warmth. I take my dog out every morning, sometimes in temps down into the 20's and it always keeps me warm. Best jacket I ever bought". I would hope a high end mountaineering jacket would keep you warm on a 10 minute walk when it is 25 degrees. Especially because it was $600. These people are just overbuying an item with a cool logo that makes them seem like an outdoor bad ass to their friends. Last year I was at the REI in Framingham waiting in line (I inadvertently showed up on gear swap day so it took me an hour to check out) and the guy in front of me was wearing an Arc'Teryx Gore Tex hard shell, fancy designer jeans and La Sportiva super gaiter mountaineering boots. It was sunny and in the 40's that day. Did I mention we were at a store in Framingham? He may well be an avid mountaineer but he looked like a pretentious idiot to me wearing that stuff in a retail store. I think this is the demographic retailers are targeting for their suburban outdoor lines. And it looks like a market ripe for the plucking so why not make money on it to support their core lines so they stay in business right?

I wonder whether the downturn in the recreational gear sales is related to the industry running out of "the next thing". SUP's were developed/marketed after kayak sales began declining. Snowboarding sales increased after ski sales began declining. Likewise with bicycles, etc. In addition to not having any new recreational activities to invent/improve/upgrade they also have caused a level of burnout in the consumers who think "Ok, i spent $4K a couple years ago on kayaks, and now my kids all want SUP's". Just a thought. I'm not sure that it's truly related to any particular arbitrary group of generationally-similar people.

TJsName said:

I am 34, so I think I qualify.

Sure, there are some people who buy high end hear that they will never use to it's full potential, but I do think that's a Millennial thing, I think it's a disposable income thing. I believe that my generation is the first one in many that likely won't be better off than their parents, which is largely driven by disparities is wealth distribution. Ask a millennial is they know what a pension is. Or if they expect to receive social security.

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Depends on your field of choice. My father was a telecom engineer, working some real cutting edge things for Bell Labs in the 60's. Brilliant person and way further along in his field than I will ever be. However, he had nobody to market himself to. He worked for Ma Bell and the variations after divestiture (which happened way further along in his career). I fell into telecom mostly by accident, and my skills are imminently more marketable and make much more than he did. He would've made 3x what I do should he have hit the industry 30 years later.

Not dying but surely evolving.

peakbagger said:

Any Millennial ever heard of a moderated internet forum that people voluntarily contribute (apparently successfully) to read?

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I think you are right on the money - I seriously doubt there are any Millennials registered on VFTT. In fact, from what I read, majority of Millennials are also skipping Facebook.

iAmKrzys said:

I think you are right on the money - I seriously doubt there are any Millennials registered on VFTT. In fact, from what I read, majority of Millennials are also skipping Facebook.

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Unfortunately 1983 makes me a millennial, apparently.

Every generation seems to be sentimental about their historical importance and thinking that dark ages follow after their glorious era... I guess the positive is they focus only on the positives while ignoring their destructive impact on this planet

This is true. They think that dark ages both will follow, and preceded, their era.

I often asked people if they'd rather be alive 200 years ago, right now, or 200 years in the future. It's an interesting exercise to consider how far we've come. For me, I'd always pick two hundred years in the future, hands down. 200 years ago would be a novelty until you got a minor infection and died.

I'm sure by them people will be talking about how great the hiking boots their great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparent let them are, and that they've only needed to be resoled 20 times.

I am at the age where the average person was not alive 200 years ago. When Social Security was created in the 1937 the average life expectancy was less than the full retirement age. When growing up in the nineteen sixties and seventies, my older relatives and many of my friends relatives rarely made it to their seventies, no worried about dementia as something else would take them out long before. Lung cancer was prevalent and it was a death sentence. Sure they may have had great pensions but they didn't collect them for long. I remember folks in their late fifties carrying and using nitro pills to keep their hearts running as things like pacemakers angioplasty and heart bypasses were not really in general use. I didn't see folks like Hiker Ed working on his 7th round of 12 by 48 which will be completed after the age seventy. I also didn't know folks getting new knees and hips or major rebuilds going back out and resuming their hiking career. I also grew up prior to the clean water act, folks have forgotten that all the major rivers in New England were open sewers including the Pemi and had been since the early 1900s or earlier. The waterfront on most cities were not places to go, I remember walking along the harbor in Portland and could see toilet paper and raw sewerage being dumped in the bay out of open pipes. Its easy to look back and have selected good memories but from my viewpoint I would rather take today.

The mountains have also gotten a lot more accessible, yes it means more people on the trails but talk to anyone coming up routinely in the sixties up RT3 and not many of them routinely drove up did major summit and drove home in the same day.

One evening after a hike into our camp for the night, a few of us sat around our snow-kitchen imbibing a bit. I look at my friend, who is deep in thought. I ask him "What's up?"

He replies: "You know, if I could do it all over again, I think I'd be a tarp salesman when the Colonists landed at Plymouth Rock".

I'm a member of a lot of hiking forums and groups. When someone post a "What do you recommend for boots" question, I'm amazed at the low end suggestions. My boots last me a low average of 10 to 15 years and the rest of my gear is no different. I buy top of the line gear and clothes. I think it's very accurate to say the younger crowd goes cheaper by far. I also think, most of them will do a list and retire anyway, so it's probably not an issue for them.

I have a pair of Limmers I bought 32 years ago. They never quite fit right after I had them resoled, but I still used them for trailwork and construction. But for my needs, lighter gear is much better. That typically means footwear won't last as long, but I'm fine with that if it means less weight on my feet and more miles on the trail. I typically get 3-5 years from a pair of soft hikers, and that works well for me.

I do have some bombproof gear, and it's great, but it's usually heavy. I'm much more likely to go with lighter gear and worry about replacing it over time.

sierra said:

I'm a member of a lot of hiking forums and groups. When someone post a "What do you recommend for boots" question, I'm amazed at the low end suggestions. My boots last me a low average of 10 to 15 years and the rest of my gear is no different. I buy top of the line gear and clothes. I think it's very accurate to say the younger crowd goes cheaper by far. I also think, most of them will do a list and retire anyway, so it's probably not an issue for them.

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My point from below was that it's not so much that they are young, it's that they have less disposable income to spend on higher-end gear. When I was in my 20's I hiked in my sneakers for the most part, and that was largely driven by budget. The budget's less tight now, so I have nicer gear. I think the other factor is experience/expectation of continuing to use the gear. I have a bunch of friends that I bring hiking, but some only come once a year, so it's hard to justify spending big bucks on gear that won't see much use. I have some friends that have gotten more into it, and they tend to upgrade gear as they gain experience. I'm willing to be that an avid, young hiker with sizable disposable income has decent gear. Of course, youth has it perks, such as being able to post hole for 10 miles or hike in jeans. Those inefficiencies are generally magnified with age

I do very little on-trail hiking, unless the trail is taking me to some place where I can get off trail. Mostly I'm out carrying a canoe over rough ground and blowdown while bushwhacking to some remote place well off trail. Or, I'm on a SAR mission over equally rough ground, often wet too. Sturdy boots are a necessity and welcome.

JoshandBaron said:

Unfortunately 1983 makes me a millennial, apparently.

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I'm not going to lie that I just missed a letter "m" in the word "many" - I truly stand corrected, especially that if I followed this thread carefully, I would see that TJsName already proved me wrong before I even wrote my original post.

Still I asked my son who is also a Millennial if he or his hiking friends use any discussion boards for hiking-related stuff and he unequivocally said "no".

As to the question in the original post, I think outdoor retailers should carefully consider what happened to GoLite. One of my friends really liked their products, unfortunately the company lost focus on what they were really good at, and attempted to broaden appeal which resulted in chapter 11. Here is a quote from https://www.brandgeek.net/2014/11/23/golite-gone-trademark/

GoLite’s co-founder Demetri “Coup” Coupounas said that GoLite engaged in an over-ambitious retail store model and too rapid expansion into casual apparel. Specifically, he explained that the company opened 20 retail locations in 2012 — many of which were too large for its needs — while also launching a casual apparel line that its technical gear-loving consumers were not yet ready to embrace. GoLite got out of balance and that imbalance quickly took its toll.

iAmKrzys said:

I'm not going to lie that I just missed a letter "m" in the word "many" - I truly stand corrected, especially that if I followed this thread carefully, I would see that TJsName already proved me wrong before I even wrote my original post.

Still I asked my son who is also a Millennial if he or his hiking friends use any discussion boards for hiking-related stuff and he unequivocally said "no".

As to the question in the original post, I think outdoor retailers should carefully consider what happened to GoLite. One of my friends really liked their products, unfortunately the company lost focus on what they were really good at, and attempted to broaden appeal which resulted in chapter 11. Here is a quote from https://www.brandgeek.net/2014/11/23/golite-gone-trademark/

GoLite’s co-founder Demetri “Coup” Coupounas said that GoLite engaged in an over-ambitious retail store model and too rapid expansion into casual apparel. Specifically, he explained that the company opened 20 retail locations in 2012 — many of which were too large for its needs — while also launching a casual apparel line that its technical gear-loving consumers were not yet ready to embrace. GoLite got out of balance and that imbalance quickly took its toll.

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To be fair, I'm the only one of my group of friends that even knows this place exists.

iAmKrzys said:

I think you are right on the money - I seriously doubt there are any Millennials registered on VFTT. In fact, from what I read, majority of Millennials are also skipping Facebook.

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Wrong! 33 year old here, and I've been a member since 2004!