Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 86

Thread: Hiker to be Charged for Rescue

  1. #31
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Woodstock, CT
    Posts
    2,130
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    He could have appeared and albeit just tired and not flustered. Assuming he was staggering is just that assuming. Maybe more pertinent details will surface later. Also what you would do as far as contacting might be different than what he perceived was protocol to do in his situation. IMO although probably not thorough as far as letting people know he made it in he seems to having been acting with good intent. That being said that is IMO where it would be difficult to prove negligence.
    I wasn't suggesting that constituted negligence. I just find that part odd. And when the guy checked in at a late hour without a reservation it also struck me as odd that a conversation of some sort didn't ensue, i.e. "So why did you choose our hotel tonight?" or whatever. It is not a $59/night room at the Red Roof. Again, not suggesting negligence. These details just struck me as odd.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 5/46

  2. #32
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Woodstock, CT
    Posts
    2,130
    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    It seems that part of the issue is that he had to walk so far to get to the hotel. But if there was a hotel at the Skyline switch...

    .
    I figured someone might go there eventually. Well played.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 5/46

  3. #33
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Center Conway, NH
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    I wasn't suggesting that constituted negligence. I just find that part odd. And when the guy checked in at a late hour without a reservation it also struck me as odd that a conversation of some sort didn't ensue, i.e. "So why did you choose our hotel tonight?" or whatever. It is not a $59/night room at the Red Roof. Again, not suggesting negligence. These details just struck me as odd.
    Totally agree. I was not alluding that you were suggesting negligence at all. I do agree that his behavior upon arriving is probably not what most of would have done. All I’m saying is that what he did do in his mind was probably in good intent so therefore negligence would be difficult to prove. Although I am not a lawyer.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Stamford, VT
    Posts
    1,247
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    I see no way a court awards it though. Saying he could have done things better is a far cry from negligence.
    "In 2009, the department issued a $25,000 fine to Scott Mason, an Eagle Scout from Halifax, Mass., for the three-day search that eventually located him. Mason had sprained his ankle and wandered off the trail.

    The department eventually reached a settlement with Mason’s family for significantly less money.

    In 2012, the department charged Edward Bacon, a 59-year-old hiker from Michigan with a history of hip surgeries, more than $9,000 after he dislocated his hip while hiking near Franconia Ridge and had to be rescued during a severe rainstorm. Bacon sued to have the fine reversed, but a circuit court and the state Supreme Court upheld it."

    Recent history tells me that F&G will make a decision and the courts will support it. Personally, I think he'll get a bill. Isn't this type of incident the reason that the state law was changed to allow charging hikers for search and rescue?
    Last edited by jfb; 05-08-2018 at 09:17 AM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NH Seacoast
    Posts
    1,653
    Quote Originally Posted by jfb View Post
    "In 2009, the department issued a $25,000 fine to Scott Mason, an Eagle Scout from Halifax, Mass., for the three-day search that eventually located him. Mason had sprained his ankle and wandered off the trail.

    The department eventually reached a settlement with Mason’s family for significantly less money.

    In 2012, the department charged Edward Bacon, a 59-year-old hiker from Michigan with a history of hip surgeries, more than $9,000 after he dislocated his hip while hiking near Franconia Ridge and had to be rescued during a severe rainstorm. Bacon sued to have the fine reversed, but a circuit court and the state Supreme Court upheld it."

    Recent history tells me that F&G will make a decision and the courts will support it. Personally, I think he'll get a bill. Isn't this type of incident the reason that the state law was changed to allow charging hikers for search and rescue?
    You may be right however given the chance to replay the whole Mason case, I think they would let that one go the second time around. The optics of that decision were terrible and he wasn't negligent, thus the settlement.

    In the second case, the man hiking continued on in the face of worsening weather and hoisted himself up on a rock using the very motion his doctor said would dislocate his hip, the motion he was advised medically to avoid. Negligence is not hard to see in this case.

    In the current situation, I simply don't see negligence.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Marlborough, Massachusetts
    Posts
    224

    Hiker who turned up at hotel gives donation

    "The 70–year-old Massachusetts man who was overdue from a hike in the White Mountains in April and was later found out to be staying at a hotel, paid a donation towards the cost of the search, New Hampshire Fish and Game told the Sun on Tuesday."

    https://www.conwaydailysun.com/news/...fb43e1589.html
    I don't believe in lists to enjoy the outdoors. My dog never did ..... Just enjoy the ride.

    www.hikesafe.com

  7. #37
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Center Conway, NH
    Posts
    2,208
    Seems like a reasonable solution all around. Still would be interested why he was going to be charged. Not saying he should not or should be charged. Although it would be informative to find out what the exact parameters were on potentially being charged rather than contributing to yet another grey area definition IMO of being charged or not in a rescue situation. F&G would do them and outdoorsman a favor if they were to more clearly define the rules and expectations. This gentleman did most everything right. Although F&G seems to be saying..”You better have a Cell Phone or some other means of communication and know how to use it”. Is that while you are still in the woods or after exiting the woods?Pretty slippery slope if that’s the case. Just thinking out loud here. Any other opinions?
    Last edited by skiguy; 07-11-2018 at 04:02 PM.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  8. #38
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Woodstock, CT
    Posts
    2,130
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Seems like a reasonable solution all around. Still would be interested why he was going to be charged. Not saying he should not or should be charged. Although it would be informative to find out what the exact parameters were on potentially being charged rather than contributing to yet another grey area definition IMO of being charged or not in a rescue situation. F&G would do them and outdoorsman a favor if they were to more clearly define the rules and expectations. This gentleman did most everything right. Although F&G seems to be saying..”You better have a Cell Phone or some other means of communication and know how to use it”. Is that while you are still in the woods or after exiting the woods?Pretty slippery slope if that’s the case. Just thinking out loud here. Any other opinions?
    I still think if he was actually checked into a hotel at 1 AM he should have made a DEFINITIVE PHONE CALL to his wife as opposed to relying on a text and then just going to bed and assuming all was well. Given the situation he had to know that she would be in a panic and had probably initiated some sort of search effort and the people involved should have been advised he was safe as soon as possible. But that is just me. I know if I were in his shoes and my wife was waiting nothing short of a phone call and a conversation would suffice.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 5/46

  9. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Stamford, VT
    Posts
    1,247
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    F&G would do them and outdoorsman a favor if they were to more clearly define the rules and expectations.
    These expectations seem to be pretty clear: http://www.hikesafe.com/index.php?page=leave-your-plans and http://www.hikesafe.com/index.php?page=changing-plans
    Last edited by jfb; 07-11-2018 at 06:13 PM.

  10. #40
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Center Conway, NH
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by jfb View Post
    I’ll have to study this a bit more. First I have to go take pictures of all my boot treads. Without digging in too deep. Does anyone know if you are supposed to have a cell phone and know how to use it not to be considered reckless?
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  11. #41
    Senior Member Nessmuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    western 'daks
    Posts
    797
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    I’ll have to study this a bit more. First I have to go take pictures of all my boot treads. Without digging in too deep. Does anyone know if you are supposed to have a cell phone and know how to use it not to be considered reckless?
    What's next? To require carrying a PLB set to send out a track geolocation point every few minutes? I can see it coming down this slippery slope. I barely have a cell phone at all, an old style flip phone, it is not my constant companion, and I certainly am not tied to it in any manner.
    "She's all my fancy painted her, she's lovely, she is light. She waltzes on the waves by day and rests with me at night." - Nessmuk, Forest and Stream, July 21, 1880 [of the Wood Drake Canoe built for him by Rushton]

  12. #42
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Center Conway, NH
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessmuk View Post
    What's next? To require carrying a PLB set to send out a track geolocation point every few minutes? I can see it coming down this slippery slope. I barely have a cell phone at all, an old style flip phone, it is not my constant companion, and I certainly am not tied to it in any manner.
    Well put. My sediments exactly!
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  13. #43
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    AHH....SKYLINE
    Posts
    443
    I'm glad the F&G tries to educate all the wanna be hikers..they need it. And it's not the F&G's place to do that. They should do more as I run into so many "tourists" with pink and green pant and sneakers with no jackets etc every hike.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Tillson, New York Avatar: Dress for success!
    Posts
    6,493
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Well put. My sediments exactly!
    Nessmuk is pretty handy with a map and compass...
    Tom Rankin
    Volunteer Balsam Lake Mountain
    Past President Catskill 3500 Club
    CEO
    Trail maintainer for the Dry Brook Ridge trail from Mill Brook Road to just past the Lean-to

  15. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Stamford, VT
    Posts
    1,247
    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Does anyone know if you are supposed to have a cell phone and know how to use it not to be considered reckless?
    http://www.hikesafe.com/index.php?page=technology

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •