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Thread: Dry River Rescue - Deep Snow

  1. #16
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    I'm a member of a few FB groups. The groups are large (14k) members. There is a number of issues with the groups, which I suppose is common in most large groups. There are many beginners and many just above beginner level. There are some experienced hikers as well, but I think they are in the minority. Not to the surprise of some long time VFTT members, I have been sent to jail on more then one occasion from these groups. It can get frustrating the lack of effort people put into trip planning before asking questions on FB. Like many here, I put in a lot of work when I started hiking and on into my years in the field, that may be a dying art. Questions like, "How far is it to Liberty's summit from the notch" clearly this person is either stone cold lazy or they don't own a guidebook. I posted a PSA on those sites a few weeks back and was vilified for suggesting people need to be prepared for winter conditions deep in the back country. I fought back, got thrown in jail and 24 hours later there was a rescue, due to lack of the very gear I was suggesting as mandatory. It just gets frustrating the amount of rescues and considering the resources available, outside of tourist just jumping on trails, there's really little reason you should lack the knowledge needed to hike the 4ks this day and age. I think back to the early 80's, most of us did the work needed. I ran into many great hikers and very few goofer's back then. Once social media took hold, it went downhill from there. The new generation has one resource for their knowledge, their phones and the groups they join online. There is some bad advice being handed out and people take it as gospel if they read it online. Anywho, I could go on and on, but I suspect I'm preaching to the choir on this site. This site may have low traffic, but there are few sites that can match the experience level among the members here. It's a nice refuge from the " Is Mt. Washington safe to climb?" crowd.
    Also off topic, and also well put

    Tim
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    You both did well. Back in the early days there was a climbing board too. For some reason, maybe because on the most abused of the AMC sites, Mountains & Molehills which was for ranting I spent time as Mr. Sarcasm...., I befriended two of the more vocal ranters. As I have read other places, spending hours outdoors, alone or with just a friend or two in less than fair conditions does impact one's demeanor. Those two individuals either spent time in this hemispere's most remote locations (SA, Mexico Mtns) or amongst the higher peaks in the USA and his travels enabled him to meet his future wife. We also had a fatality of one member also, on Shasta in the late 90's.

    To bring it back on topic, we likely have several achieved discussions on rescues in the Dry River area here. During the lumber era, yes, before VFTT, the railway up the Dry River had more bridges then any other and once logging ceased, the Dry River Valley's bridges washed away first. The Dry River, Wild River and Great Gulf are amongst the least traveled locations in the Whites with junctions off the AT in heavily used areas.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Barkingcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    What's left is a lot of helpful historical information, and highly reliable answers about more obscure and/or historical subjects.
    And it's a key reason for reading this forum on a regular basis. And often the subjects are not that obscure.

    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Off topic but well put. Thanks for all your help!
    Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    Anywho, I could go on and on, but I suspect I'm preaching to the choir on this site.
    Perhaps you are, but it's helpful to read this from time to time. Thank you for that.

  4. #19
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    The more things change, the more they stay the same. A very short history lesson on VFTT... members with longer standing than I will surely feel OK in correcting me if I am wrong.

    Tim
    Good summary Tim. I will add the following...

    In the early daze VFTT was more of a community. Folks planned group hikes here, organized very well-attended Spring and Fall Gatherings and took pride in wearing group related merch such as patches, hats, etc. Most were working on one or more lists, and shared info about those activities as well. A common question asked in those days of folks you met on the trail was, "Are you on VFTT? What's your screen name?"

    Several VFTT folks organized themselves to head went west and do Rainier and other peaks.

    And for a time there was even a VFTT rock band that practiced regularly and performed at a few summer and winter get togethers.

    VFTT was also the go-to place for accurate and up-to-date trail condx reports. Due to the level of activity, chances were good that the trail you planned to use next weekend was done last weekend and a report written up. This was especially true in the Winter.

    There was also a not-to-subtle anti-AMC tone here. The Club was openly criticized and/or ridiculed for various sins with vigorous discussion of all points of view.

    I believe that as time went on, many gung ho members aged out of the intense hiking scene. I know I did. In addition, the rise of social media displaced VFTT and its perceived elitist notion of "sponsored" membership. At this point, Audery's pot luck is the only real "group" activity I'm aware of.

    I am a member of the Over 40 and Over 50 Meetup Hiking groups and get weekly mails from them announcing their trips. They seem very active, but somewhat anonymous. And the organizers frequently must do mass mailings reminding potential participants of the fitness levels required for hikes, safety equipment needed in winter, and other minutiae related to participation in an activity, which indicates to me that there were/are problems with the "just show up at the trail head" model.

    Times and technologies change, as does the Dry River Wilderness. May we all roll with with it gracefully.
    cb
    Last edited by ChrisB; 05-23-2018 at 12:24 PM.
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
    .

  5. #20
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    " Is Mt. Washington safe to climb?" crowd.
    You mean you climb Mt. Washington? I thought it was a boat ride on some lake. In all seriousness I concur with most of what your saying. I'm not surprised you got thrown in jail. Although a lot of the pictures can be interesting on FB I find a lot of the folks to get defensive very quickly. They ask questions that can be simply answered. When they do get answered they take it as if your putting them down for not knowing the answer already. I agree on the knowledge base here being very good and especially the tolerance of most when the same questions get asked over and over.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  6. #21
    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    "Is Mt. Washington safe to climb?" The simplest answer to someone who asks this question is "No."
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    I have been sent to jail on more then one occasion from these groups. It can get frustrating the lack of effort people put into trip planning before asking questions on FB.
    In an effort to prove a point about people failing to do the simplest research, I got booted from one 4k group for asking if I should use snowshoes or spikes when it was obvious neither was needed. And that's how you fine folks ended up with me.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Scubahhh's Avatar
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    From the "successful" trip report:
    "We were lucky that we were prepared with fitness and most of the proper gear (snowshoes would have been nice) but I worry that others won't be so lucky."
    Add life to your years!

  9. #24
    Junior Member Salty's Avatar
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    Oh, I so hope this rescue ends up on North Woods Law.

    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    This site may have low traffic, but there are few sites that can match the experience level among the members here. It's a nice refuge from the " Is Mt. Washington safe to climb?" crowd.
    Amen.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scubahhh View Post
    From the "successful" trip report:
    "We were lucky that we were prepared with fitness and most of the proper gear (snowshoes would have been nice) but I worry that others won't be so lucky."
    Luck has nothing to do with it.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    The new generation has one resource for their knowledge, their phones and the groups they join online. There is some bad advice being handed out and people take it as gospel if they read it online. Anywho, I could go on and on, but I suspect I'm preaching to the choir on this site. This site may have low traffic, but there are few sites that can match the experience level among the members here. It's a nice refuge from the " Is Mt. Washington safe to climb?" crowd.
    Here's a bit of input from a newcomer 'millenial' (though I don't really identify as one - I am right on the edge and have not been to Facebook in a long time). I've been lurking and reading VFTT for several years, it kept popping up all the time in my research about the Whites, winter hiking, also general hiking advice. I really appreciate the low signal-to-noise ratio, the risk analysis and aversion, and how seriously members here approach going out in the wilderness. I have not seen the advice on Facebook but I can't imagine it's very different from the kind of advice you would get on Reddit - college-level, gung-ho "we are so outdoorsy!". Sneakers and shorts on Washington (been there, in retrospect - got lucky the weather was amazing), a small bottle of water and no hat in Southwest deserts. I have come to realize that a lot of the advice out there needs to be taken with a grain of salt, even some of the advice here, though 99% of the time VFFT members can be trusted - and I appreciate that.

    From that Reddit link:
    we didn't have a beacon so our only option was to camp for the night and find our way out the next day
    That is a very powerful statement and a glimpse into the mentality of having the PLB button to fall back onto.

  12. #27
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autonomy View Post
    From that Reddit link:


    That is a very powerful statement and a glimpse into the mentality of having the PLB button to fall back onto.
    Jesus you'd think it was the end of the world to spend an unplanned night in the woods. Crazy!

    Prior to the Push-Button-Come-Get-Me era an unplanned night out was not a big deal, at least in non-winter condx. Hunker down, brew up and stay warm until daylight. Sleep if you're lucky. What's so hard about that?

    If folks got billed $1,000 per PLB push they might be more into spending an unplanned night in the woods and walking out the next morning.

    Sheesh.

    cb
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
    .

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