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Thread: State to study Mt Washington Summit Capacity

  1. #16

  2. #17
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    Wow, quite a complicated history. I expect if it went to court, it would go on for years. Typically the solution for a mess like this is for the state or public entity to seize the land through eminent domain to "quiet" the prior title issues and then dole out rights as they see fit that meets the pubic good. The federal government most likely could do so but expect they would have no interest and expect no one would be happy with the result if they did. Of course the aggrieved former owners would then file suit to be compensated for their lost rights and the entire can of worms would then be rehashed in court for years. I expect the Mt Washington commission as a whole realizes that any solution has winners and losers and therefore that's why Walter Graf is begging all parties to play well together as the alternatives are far worse where everyone loses a stake in the management to some government entity.

    For those who are not aware a "quit claim" deed is an inferior title, the seller is just selling whatever rights they have or claim to have to buyer. An absurd example is I am leaning on the hood of car and someone comes up and offers to buy it from me, I don't own it but I can offer a quit claim to the potential buyer that says that I am selling him whatever rights I have for the car. Doesn't matter that I don't own it, all I am representing is that I am selling whatever rights may have to it. A warranty deed generally is the preferred type of title that a bank requires. The seller represents that they have specific rights to piece of property (be it in its entirety or some specific portion) and there are no other owners or liens. If there is a challenge, the seller can be held responsible by the buyer to defend the sale. Of course land changes hands and past sellers pass away so most banks require title insurance to make sure that someone else is liable if the chain of title has issues. The title firm researches past transactions of the property and they judge the level of risk that the title may be defective and charge accordingly.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 07-24-2018 at 10:34 AM.

  3. #18
    Senior Member jniehof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    hikers can and do use the services but do not contribute the maintenance of the summit unless they voluntarily elect to buy an infamous chilidog or other refreshments.
    Eighty bucks every time I renew my registration. Have gotten exactly zip in direct financial benefit (both Pawtuckaway and Mondadnock I tend not to go in the main gate.)
    Last edited by jniehof; 07-24-2018 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Quote trimming fail

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jniehof View Post
    Eighty bucks every time I renew my registration. Have gotten exactly zip in direct financial benefit (both Pawtuckaway and Mondadnock I tend not to go in the main gate.)
    Not sure I understand, what type of registration?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Not sure I understand, what type of registration?
    State Park plates give you free admission to state parks

  6. #21
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    State Park plates give you free admission to state parks
    Only with your car, as I understand it. What if I am on a bike or on foot? Anyone know if the plates come with a piece of paper to avoid the fee in those cases?

    Tim
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  7. #22
    Member TomK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    Not sure what they can do about it.
    I believe that the traditional method of discouraging an activity without actually making it illegal is to tax it. Seems like they ought to be able to craft some sort of tax that happens to only apply to the Cog and Auto Road customers, if they are so inclined. Maybe with the proceeds to F&G for SAR costs...

    TomK
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    How pure at vesper time, the far bells chiming/God, give me strength to climb, and hills for climbing. "Hills" - Arthur Guiterman

  8. #23
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    "And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw." Peart
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomK View Post
    I believe that the traditional method of discouraging an activity without actually making it illegal is to tax it. Seems like they ought to be able to craft some sort of tax that happens to only apply to the Cog and Auto Road customers, if they are so inclined. Maybe with the proceeds to F&G for SAR costs...

    TomK
    The prior method was the autotroad and the cog made a contribution to the observatory which used it to pay their share of the summit expenses which are paid for by a substantial surcharge on the electric rate charged for power used at the summit. The Cog owner stopped making this contribution recently and is arguing that he is subsiding his competition for potential overnight visits to the summit. The problem is the biggest user of power on the summit is the radio and TV transmitter which are probably the least impact to the summit (beyond visual and a good dose of RF to the visitors). I would expect the next biggest user is the obs followed by the state park building with the Cog and the Autoroad using the least.

    Why the state doesn't just charge a fee per head delivered to the summit via the Auto Road or the Cog directly is beyond me. Put in pay toilets and give a free token to the paying customers from the cog and the autoroad. Hikers will need to pay up. It would be easy to include a capital recovery charge in the fee to support capital upgrades to expand the summit facilities. Unfortunately the Obs gets nailed as they lose a source of cash.

    My and other folks contention is that the Cog and Auto Road are the biggest impact to the summit by far with hikers well down on the list. Mike Pelchat the former State Park manager was actually encouraging opening the state park building early prior to the Cog and Auto Road opening to hikers to "prime" the septic system. The septic system is biological and has a difficult time handling a sudden influx of waste when the Cog or the Auto road surge starts. Getting hiker traffic in early lets the biology ramp up. One of the cornerstones of the Cog hotel plan was to allow the state to run a sewer line down the Cog land to handle the waste water from the summit to a large septic system located on Cog property at the base. The cog would have the rights to hook the new hotel to that line and septic system built with state funds and since it was state owned system, the permitting and construction is lot easier as the state gets to ignore many of the rules they enforce on others (for an example see the mess they have made at Cannon). The cog already allowed the electric cable to be run over their land in the past with I expect rights to access it, add in a sanitary system and that really cuts down on infrastructure costs for a Cog hotel. Only thing the need is water line and I expect they can design for low water and drill seasonal wells.

  10. #25
    Senior Member jniehof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    Only with your car, as I understand it. What if I am on a bike or on foot? Anyone know if the plates come with a piece of paper to avoid the fee in those cases?
    The FAQ says to bring your registration if the fee collection point isn't in the parking lot. It also says the plate provides access for "the registered vehicle and its passengers," i.e. you can't show up in somebody else's car. So those two point in different directions.

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