Franconia Notch parking survey

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I suspect this survey is part of the Franconia ridge use study currently underway. It involves numerous stakeholders.
 
It's too bad we don't have some kind of a mechanism where kids, say age 5-18, were in some kind of organized structured environment on a regular basis, say several times a week. We could take advantage of that to include sessions where principles of citizenship and civilized behavior could be explored with them in depth.

Excellent. Solid work! Thanks. I really like sarcasm and cynicism, done eloquently. And in fact it is too bad that those things are not really in the curriculum today.
 
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Ahem....just for clarification, I don't believe Earth First has ever been associated with any gun violence or violence against people of any form. You might get them on pulling a few survey stakes and possibly sweetening a bulldozer gas tank or two in defense of some natural areas out west.

There are other groups known for violence. Not this one.
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On topic, to agree with Joe, all you gotta do is get out of bed early. And that will always be enough in a society of late starters. Of course that's a solution to ones own problem but doesn't solve the parking highway side.
 
On the other hand, getting up early can be rewarding when you get lighting like this.

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Tim
 
*****
Ahem....just for clarification, I don't believe Earth First has ever been associated with any gun violence or violence against people of any form. You might get them on pulling a few survey stakes and possibly sweetening a bulldozer gas tank or two in defense of some natural areas out west.

There are other groups known for violence. Not this one.
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On topic, to agree with Joe, all you gotta do is get out of bed early. And that will always be enough in a society of late starters. Of course that's a solution to ones own problem but doesn't solve the parking highway side.

"Ahem." Maybe I'm older, or just remember history better:

https://www.iww.org/history/library/Bari/TreeSpiking1
 
"Ahem." Maybe I'm older, or just remember history better:

https://www.iww.org/history/library/Bari/TreeSpiking1

You might be older.

From the article you posted:

"And even though there was no evidence that Earth First! was involved, the Eureka Times-Standard proclaimed, Earth First! Blamed for Worker's Injuries." Mendocino County Sheriff Shea put out a widely quoted press release that was almost gleeful in its condemnation."

Thanks for making my point for me. Lashing out indiscriminately against whole groups of people is not really something that helps us move forward. If you don't like the group, use facts in your argument to make your point.
 
A quick scan of the survey suggests that they're not looking for solutions, but rather to make access more difficult.

The reality is that FNSP *could* invest money to come up with a solution, but instead has been diverting millions to prop up Cannon Mountain ski area.

Some ideas (some combination would be needed; most of these have been suggested (or half heartedly attempted)):
- Expand the eastern Lafayette Place parking lot and institute fee parking with no interstate overflow.
- Formalize the Greenleaf herd path to the Old Man viewing to use that underused lot and trail.
- Rebuild the Kinsman Ridge Trail (Tramside).
- Cut a new hiking trail that incorporates Cannon cliffs viewing without significant vertical loss from Tramside parking.
- Formally reopen the Cannon-Mittersill hiking trail and fix the machine caused erosion.
- Finish the Eagle Cliff Trail.
- Expand the Basin East parking lot, institute fee parking, reopen the "Basin bushwhack" trail, and formalize the cabin connector to the Falling Waters Trail to better allow a Falling Waters/Liberty Spring (Flume Slide) loop.
 
The survey does seem to be tilted to justify a conclusion that has already been made. I don't see FNSP supporting limiting access to the trail network by trying to strictly enforce parking and the sticky situation that the AMC needs parking access to the two huts means the AMC is going to want priority access to what spaces are already there. AMC guests are probably more significantly impacted as they tend to show up mid day to late day when the lots are full. When I drive by the parking lots in the early morning on popular weeks and weekends, I frequently see cars parked on the side of the road quite far from the lots while the lots are near empty. Sure there could be some multiday backpackers in that mix but expect most are AMC guests. One option would be to expand the existing AMC shuttle network and have hut guests park at the Cannon Tram lot and get shuttled to the trailheads. I expect this would be very unpopular option with the AMC.

I am not a skier but on the rare occasions I am near ski areas I generally see multiple shuttles running around the resorts to get people to the base of the mountain. I expect the rolling stock is available during the summer and if a private entity was given an exclusive franchise to run a shuttle up and down the parkway using the Cannon lot as a base with parking limits enforced at Lafayette place I expect there would be a few firms that would want to bid given the volume of hiker traffic. The problem with this is that the shuttle will not run 24/7 so some folks will inevitably get stranded at the lot and will be upset that they need to walk up the bikeway to get back to their car.

As others have suggested, the early AM option is a great one and my preference even though I have noticed that the lots are filling up earlier in the last few years. I hope any solution to the peak parking issue doesn't impact this option but expect it will.

Unfortunately much as Rocket's trails expansion suggestions are quite attractive, I don't see it pulling much traffic out of the Lafayette place parking lots. The OBP/FW loop is a tourist magnet and barring heavy enforcement they are going to try to climb it.

Ultimately barring some sort of agreements preventing parking lot expansion in place left over from the original parkway deal, I see the logical approach is expand parking at either the east or the west lot and put in parking fees. Lafayette Place is already staffed during camping season and therefore adding seasonal staff to make rounds of the lots to check for self registrations (similar to the USFS lots) makes sense. With a reliable source of revenue in place FNSP is most likely willing to expand parking especially as they have access to the Sunapee funding that is so generously used to subsidize the ski areas expansion.

Realistically the parkway was designed and installed 30 years ago and the needs and demands for parking has expanded. Its time to acknowledge this reality and deal with it.
 
I usually avoid crowded trails and parking areas by hiking midweek, but to solve the parking problem, I think Lafayette Campground needs to be sacrificed and larger parking lots (free) need to be built in that location. In the meantime, I would use a shuttle if one was available until the larger lots are completed.
 
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How about a bike share program? Seems like there is an underutilized parking lot and an overused trailhead and they are connected by a bike path. Kind of stinks the survey doesn't have general text box for other ideas. Almost like they don't want to hear them.

Tim
 
Perhaps EF did not spike that particular tree. But the part of the article that caught my eye was this:

"Earth First!, on the other hand, was much less generous in their reaction, displaying practically no sympathy for this innocent man who had just been through such a terrifying ordeal caused by a spiked tree. And after advocating the tactic for years even putting out a manual on how to do it and teaching tree spiking workshops at [the] Earth First! Rendezvous..."

Wiki: "It is believed that tree spiking originated in timber logging labor disputes in the Pacific Northwest of the United States in the late 19th century[citation needed]. It came to prominence as a contentious tactic within unconventional environmentalist circles during the 1980s, after it was advocated by Earth First! co-founder Dave Foreman in his book Ecodefense."

So sorry, EF doesn't get off so easy in my book. Sure, there are more radical groups out there like ELF, and many EF leaders have denounced certain violent tactics. But the association cannot be denied. It doesn't wipe clean that easily, and EF is still the best known standard bearer for the idea of "violence in defense of wilderness." That's why I mentioned that group when folks starting talking along those lines, earlier in this thread.
 
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Thanks, Dennis.

Sorry for the sidetrack. I'm done.
 
Thanks, Dennis.

Sorry for the sidetrack. I'm done.

I'm done too. Not need to split and I don't mean to sound vitriolic in my comments. That's why it's generally best to not make gun comments in threads about hiking. We all get fired up. I see your point and respect your opinion but simply don't like to see EF equated with ELF. They are not the same. People have a tendency to put them all in the same box. Okay, moving on. Apologies for my tone.
 
We have met the enemy... And they are US!!

cb

I think the surge in hiking is a good thing, even if it means we lose some of the solitude we were used to. I view it as people recognizing what we do is as awesome as we think it is. I think this discussion is representative of a growing pain. There are issues, and decisions will be made. We'll see what everything looks like in 20 years. :)
 
Occasionally, we use the Pemi trail, but after a long hike, the bike path is faster. We are not above bending the law.:eek:

I confess I did rollerblade down it once after a hike (Lafayette Place to Liberty Spring). Of course, it was at dusk after it rained, so that ride was its own punishment. Those bridges are planked, in case anyone cares. :eek:

And yes, me and friend each hiked with a roller blade in our packs. One of the oddest things I have carried.
 
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