Hello from a newbie here, also a question

Hi,
I just signed up here and am having a look around.
I enjoy hiking, among other things. I have done some of the White Mtn. trails in the past. I also like to do trails on Mt. Greylock.
I guess I have read and dreamed more than I actually have done when it come to hiking, but when you have two teenagers at home, the distractions are many.
My most memorable hike was the time I went to the summit of Mt. Lafayette. It was an unforgettable day, for sure.
Anyways, I have a question concerning hiking safety that maybe someone with more experience than me can probably answer.
What is the standard method of self protection in the woods? I am talking about personal safety against a bear, or other animal, and also against someone else that you may encounter in the woods that would not be considered friendly?
I am not into guns, and have no real desire to carry one. I have carried a knife in the past, and someone gave me a thing of pepper spray which I don't have anymore.
Do most hikers carry some form of protection, or am I being too paranoid?
The few times that I have been out alone, I do get that nervous feeling when I realize that I am on my own, and it does take away from the pleasure of the hike.
Thanks for any input, Eric

Best method of self protection is just using your brain and being aware of your surroundings. If hiking on your own gives you a nervous feeling try to go w/ another hiker. More time out here might make that nervous feeling just melt away. Carring a weapon of anykind (gun, knife, spray) will do you no good unless you are trained and practice using them. Hike more, you see there isn't really much to get nervous about out there.

redcloud said:

Hi,
...Do most hikers carry some form of protection, or am I being too paranoid?
...

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No and yes.
You're much more at risk from human or animal attack in town than in the woods, and most people do not carry the types of "protection" you mention in town.
I think the odds of being physically assaulted by another hiker are probably less than being struck by lightning. The only animals that are even a remote concern in the NE are black bears and moose. As long as you use common sense (e.g., don't threaten mama bear's cub, etc.), the odds of having to defend yourself against either are miniscule.
I don't mean to make light of your concerns, but I really wouldn't give them another thought. Get out there and hike - the more you do, the more comfortable you'll become in the woods.

Redcloud, welcome !

First off, you're safer in the woods than in your car or at the mall. If the trails you hike are frequented by scum, find deeper woods. 99.99% of all animal encounters are safe, you're the one THEY fear, especially bear. I think there is a MUCH larger danger re. rabid animals, and how often do you hear about them ? Take proper food precautions, a bear canister, etc.
You are S.O.L. in MA re. handgun laws, so that's not a real option. Pepper spray/mace - you're more likely to hit yourself in most cases. A air-horn would help just to give you the piece of mind of "pointing and shooting" something. and 3 blasts would alert others of your danger.
Get out more often and consider an occasional scare part of the fun.

You have very little to worry about if you follow the proper precautions, like hanging a bear bag correctly. It's pretty common for any relative newcomer to backpacking to feel some apprehension with bears. When I first started out, carrying bear spray helped alleviate those worries. I never came close to using it though.

redcloud said:

. . . What is the standard method of self protection in the woods? I am talking about personal safety against a bear, or other animal, and also against someone else that you may encounter in the woods that would not be considered friendly?
I am not into guns, and have no real desire to carry one. I have carried a knife in the past, and someone gave me a thing of pepper spray which I don't have anymore.
Do most hikers carry some form of protection, or am I being too paranoid?
The few times that I have been out alone, I do get that nervous feeling when I realize that I am on my own, and it does take away from the pleasure of the hike.

Click to expand...

Can’t answer for “most hikers” but none of the hikers I know carry weapons or pepper spray for personal protection against animals or other humans in the NE United States. Being aware of your surroundings and having some knowledge of how the animals you're likely to encounter behave probably is more than adequate.

The real hazards in NE hiking are getting lost, injury from falls or misplaced feet, being overcome by illness, physical exhaustion, heat exhaustion (or worse), dehydration and hypothermia, etc.. It’s best to prepare in such a way that you avoid becoming a victim of these things in the first place, which includes recognizing conditions that may lead to them, equipping yourself adequately to protect from them, and recognizing the onset of various physical ills. Being prepared -- both with knowledge and skills, equipment and supplies -- to cope with “emergencies” when they occur also is important.

A good roundup of what you should know can be found at the Hike Safe web site.

Going alone can be nerve-wracking, especially at first. Don’t despair. Time and experience may fix that for you. Being a little bit apprehensive -- even if you’re vastly experienced -- probably is a healthy thing.

Have fun. Hiking is a great lifetime activity!

G.

I'm more concerned about protecting myself from the effects of the weather than other hikers and animals. Hypothermia and dehydration are ever present risks. I've never seen a bear on the trails and the moose I've seen weren't too interested in sticking around. I've had more close encounters with other hiker's dogs than anything else (I love dogs; no bashing intented).

Get out and have fun. The apprehension you have will go away with time.

Glenn

safety

Being safe in the woods is important. They way to remain safe is to be prepared. This site is an excellent resource for getting the information you need to prepare yourself. I would not worry about being attacked by another hiker, I have never heard of that happening. 98% of the hiking community is very friendly and will go out of their way to help you. The other 2% may be rude or ignorant, but not dangerous to others. Bear and other wildlife encounters are extremely rare, weather and travel are much greater concerns.

Your efforts should go into being prepared to survive in the woods. Carry the essentials needed to survive. I.E.: Map & compass, proper clothing, first aid and survival kit, whistle. Learn how and when to use them.

There have been several threads started this week on starting hiking. Search this site and read those threads. There is lots of valuable information.

Most importantly get out in the woods and enjoy yourself. The more you get out the more comfortable you will be. Once you get comfortable start pushing your limits little by little.

Statistically if I remember right,

Your 7 times more likey to be killed by a dog than a bear
1000 times more likely to be killed by lightning or
1000 times more likely to be killed by urban human violence
and 10,000 times more likely to be killed in a car accident

It's just that the media perverts and distorts the reality.

Fatal car accidents don't always even make the local news paper, lightning probably a small article on page 20, dog attack page 2 or 3 only if it was a kid, but if a bear kills someone it's national news.

Welcome, Redcloud. I understand your concern for personal safety. When I began taking solo trips (MANY years ago), I had some concerns, but I had a dog with me to "protect" me. When I took my first solo paddle trip without my dog, I was a little nervous about it; I had my paddle and a small folding knife to ease that feeling (probably useless anyway).

After many years of solo trips, I found that the reality of this is there is really nothing to fear when hiking, camping and paddling in the wilderness areas of the Northeast. You are very safe on the trail. You should, however, be concerned about your FOOD! The critters out there want it. If you use common sense, and use one of the bear canisters that are available now, your food will be safe too.

Maybe start out by hiking with one or more other people like you. Basically, everybody who posts on VFTT fits that description. Watch for VFTT "Gatherings" and attend one; you'll meet plenty of nice (but crazy/obsessed) hikers. After a while you'll feel comfortable on the trail and might try solo hiking - it's quite different from hiking with even one companion. Just be careful, and have fun out there! -Bob VH (ALG)

I read sometime ago that violent acts on the trail happen within 1 mile of the trailhead and are carried out by non hikers.

A good rule of thumb is to be sure that people you know are aware of your plans.

As a woman who does alot of solo hiking, I feel much better hiking with a dog ('specially with Terra because she is a good little watchdog).

redcloud said:

Do most hikers carry some form of protection, or am I being too paranoid?
The few times that I have been out alone, I do get that nervous feeling when I realize that I am on my own, and it does take away from the pleasure of the hike.
Thanks for any input, Eric

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I went to the San Francisco Zoo once and I read that at the gorilla exhibit there had been a problem with some kind of rodent that was stressing the gorillas out really badly. So, the zoo experts introduced a few snakes to combat the rodent problem. Interestingly enough, the gorillas didn't stress over the snakes although the sign stated that they would hoot and holler and also throw feces at the snakes.

Well, I got to thinking about this. It's a renewable resource and if it works for gorillas trying to scare snakes away it must work for me not only on snakes but bears and moosies as well. I know you're supposed to hoot and holler at bears but throwing your "ammo" well, that's something the book doesn't say, most likely because they don't want to lose readers by advocating socially 'unacceptable' methods of thwarting bear attacks.

I haven't tried this out yet because I NEVER SEE WILDLIFE while hiking. I saw about 20 efts the other day at Nancy Pond but that's it. Maybe they've gotten wind (down-wind!) that I had eaten Mexican Food the night before and I'm armed and dangerous. Maybe not. If we ever cross paths though on the trail (you and I), just ask, I can better demonstrate the method in person!

A gun is just going to weigh down your pack, and good luck, Crocodile Dundee, at defending yourself from a bear attack with a knife! These things (attacks by bears) are so infrequent though. Your most effective line of defense has been mentioned and that's to bring your brain along for the hike. Read up on bear and moose encounters if you can but be prepared to give the large animal a wide berth and do not antagonize it. If a bear rushes you're supposed to hoot and holler and swing your arms (throw things in my case!) Hopefully you'll never have to deal with an actual attack. I've read up on this stuff a little but I have no idea, honestly, if I would panic or not if I were actually attacked. I hope not.

Nice first post! Don't be a stranger! Join us on some hikes that we post in 'Trips & Events' and don't be scared off by the lastest bit of drama -- it isn't the norm.

-Dr. Wu

Dr Wu, I know this is off topic, but its been "bothering" me latley. Does your screenname refer to your real name, a Steely Dan song, or a song from the movie "once were warriors"...

Just wondering....

thanks..

M.

Welcome to VFTT, RedCloud. I have only been here about 6 months but I feel I've found heaven. You'll find plenty of help on this board; also some good people.

I usually hike alone the only exception is when I'm on a smaller trail with my son in the Keltie Carrier, recently my wife has started hiking (YES! ) with us. To answer your question, no I never carry any weapons on a trail (did that in the Army) and I don't plan to either. Call me naive but I like to think that everyone who ventures into the woods is there to enjoy nature and hiking. I've always met good people on the trails in the Whites. I've also met very little wildlife, no bears etc.

I just think if I had to carry a weapon while hiking that it would just take away the purpose and joy of hiking alone.

ENJOY VFTT!

I wouldn't worry about needing any weapons up in the Whites. Bears are pretty rare to run into as they hear you long before you even know they are around and make themselves scarce. I have yet to see one while hiking. I did see three moose going up Jackson and Clinton but they quickly blended deep into the woods trying to get away from us. As for the people, I don't think you need to worry about the 'Deliverance' factor up here. I never even think about needing a weapon when hiking.

Welcome to the site though as I'm a fairly new newbie myself and have been loving all this in-depth info everyone shares on here.

Yikes, I guess my first post is a popular one.
So, the consensus is to not bother carrying a weapon. It is good to hear from so many and to have so many agree on the subject. I guess my nervousness will have to go away on its own.
As I said, I am not a hardcore hiker, but have been in the woods a few times.
I guess I'm in the minority as far as seeing wildlife on the trail.
One time, I was with my wife and kids on the Oliverian Brook trail which is located on the eastern side of the Kanc. in the White Mtns. We were walking together and I looked to my left and about 75-100 feet away was a black bear with two cubs. One of the cubs was clinging to a tree trunk. Momma gave us a good stare, but that was all. We simply kept going and she didn't bother us. It was memorable for the kids.
We have seen many moose in the Whites as well.
I plan to go up to Greylock a couple of times when it cools down some. I have hiked down to the bottom of the Hopper, and up the AT to the top before.
Again, thanks for the responses, Eric

I can only respond based on my experience in the adks. I've been in the woods a lot for the past 30 years. I have had a few encounters with bears, most recently on the way back to the Garden from Johns Brook Lodge. That particular bear was gone in a second, racing through the woods away from me. I personally don't have any worries when it comes to animals in the forest. As many have said, the weather is of most concern because of how quickly it can change. Some wonder why I carry fleece and goretex in my pack on an sunny 80 degree August day. Better safe (prepared) than sorry. Make sure people know where you are going, where you are staying, which routes and when you'll return. But as the animals go, relax and enjoy the show. slamdog
Forgot to mention, if cubs are involved, more care should be observed. Never get between cubs and an adult bear. Make some noise (I bang my poles together) and they should take off as well.

Looks like I'm alone on this one. If your nervousness about hiking alone is keeping you from enjoying it (or keeping you from even doing it) then I say spend $45 on a can of bear pepper spray. Will you ever need it? Probably not. But if it reduces your apprehensions about hiking alone, then just consider it a very expensive anti-anxiety pill. I bought some in June while in Grand Tetons and Yellowstone, and it was a nice felling to have that cannister on my hip. Yes I know the bear encounters between Yellowstone and the Whites is not comparable, but if it makes you feel better that's all that matters. And don't think of it as a weapon; think of it as one more item in your first-aid kit. Not exactly like, but similar to, how folks on this site discussed hiking with cell phones (gives peace of mind, better to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it, etc). I think after 3-4 solo hikes in the woods, you'll probably realize you don't need it, you'll decide to leave it at home, and your pack will be 1 pound lighter. In summary: it doesn't hurt or affect anyone else, it reduces your anxiety, and it gets you into the woods having fun, which is the point all along. Either way, have a blast hiking.

p.s. Remember that the pepper spray isn't a substitute for common sense and good judgement; it's a last-resort supplement. If you do get pepper spray, make sure it's always easily accessable within a second or two. I've heard that most bears are very inconsiderate and impatient about letting you retrieve it from the bottom of your pack.

I was chased by a deer once in western connecticut a few years back (not joking) for a few hundred feet, so I bought a can of bear spray after that. I carried it for about a year, but now I feel so incredibly safe in the woods. That deer probably just wanted food or something anyway....

I would be more worried about a Moose during mating season than a bear in NH. I have never (knock on wood) had any trouble in NH, yet... I did however have a very nerve racking experience in Pennsylvania with a pair of Mountain lions. It was scary, and they followed us for about a half a mile, then left us alone. If I look back, I don't think a gun would have been much use to me. I couldn't see myself shooting wildly into the woods at a large cat.