Another "Donation" to the S&R Fund ? - Mt Madison Rescue

[Raven]

Agreed. They may have just been hunting for mud to throw at the victim (and perhaps contribute to the politics of outrage at out-of-state hikers who happen to get into trouble). On the other hand, such secondary info does help one to estimate/guesstimate the general competence of the victim.

In this specific case, if the boots were adequately comfortable and gave adequate traction it doesn't matter what they were made of. And, as you note, he didn't ask for rescue because of blisters or (thermally) cold feet.

Doug

Observation: I imagine if "they" wanted to spin this positively, these "rubber" boots would have been described (accurately) as "waterproof" sending a very different message of preparedness when describing the same set of footwear.

 

[Raven]

He left late in the day for the hike, not allowing enough time to complete it;


You beat me to the punch. Since when is there a curfew? (Besides winter credit on the last day of winter ) I've started up Tecumseh after 4pm in winter with the intention of watching the sun set and descending under headlamp.

You'd better be sure you get done your PT before the sun sets, Scott

Tim

HA! Yes, even if it means hiking at a faster pace than I'm comfortable with....in order to...be.......safe...?

 

[Red Oak]

Are we sure he was not just going fishing and got lost?With the rubber boots and all....Pine link seems a very clearly defined trail....Glad the man is ok though.....

 

[erugs]

Observation: I imagine if "they" wanted to spin this positively, these "rubber" boots would have been described (accurately) as "waterproof" sending a very different message of preparedness when describing the same set of footwear.

F&G needs to have a writer with better knowledge when writing up their reports in order to make them seem more believable and educate readers so perhaps they don't have to rescue as many who are unprepared.

1. How many waterproof hiking boots are "knee high" as reported in this story. I read it and thought immediately of muck boots I wear when I am getting out of the pram when sailing and we stop for an island cookout.

2. Really, is having extra food necessary to a survival of even a week for most in these parts?

3. Have you read their other report of a woman who needed to be carried out with a leg injury cause when she fell near the summit? She and her husband were doing a "loop hike." Since when is Champney considered a loop? A lollypop, maybe, if one goes over to the Sisters, or around the bad weather bypass (Westside Trail). F&G said nothing about her gear. http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Newsroom/News_2012/news_2012_Q2/SR_Chocorua_hiker_050712.html Did she have enough food, clothing, water, etc? It does sound scary that she need to be lowered by ropes on some sections.

 

[erugs]

It is spring and perhaps he was concerned about stream crossings. Or perhaps he was used to hiking in swamps. Maybe his other available footwear was even less appropriate...

My point is that while his choice of footwear does not appear to have been appropriate to those of us who are experienced with hiking in the NE, there might have been some (as yet unknown) logic behind it. I (and others on this BBS) have hiked in the NE wearing rubber boots... (K-boots or Mouse boots)

While this particular hiker appears to have been a poorly prepared beginner, one thing that he did correctly was carry and use a cellphone. It enabled him to successfully call for help after he realized that he was in trouble. It would have been better for him to have the knowledge, experience, and equipment to stay out of trouble or get himself out of trouble on his own, however given that he was in trouble, calling for help was a good thing to do.

Doug

Doug - I beg to question the "perhaps" statements in your posting. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but without real information no one is learning anything.

While I agree that there is more information to be told here, I think that's a main problem with the F&G reports. They leave a lot out. How do they expect to educate when they lack details that are important in understanding a situation like this. Also, the F&G reports get posted in the media without the media trying to get more information, so their initial lack of details just gets further promoted and those who need to know don't learn a thing. And those of us here on boards like this want better details for the same reasons, i.e. to know. Why bother listing a rescued person's name, age, location or anything else that might be pertinent?

 

[roadtripper]

My first hike was the Lincoln-Lafayette loop over Memorial day when I was 21. I ran out of food and water and only had a t-shirt. There was ice on the top 1/4 of the hike and it was very cold going across the ridge. I'd say temps were in the 30s. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing.

Had I gotten in trouble, I should not have been charged in my opinion. If you don't have a hiking tutor, you have absolutely no idea what can happen in these mountains. The billboards at trailheads are also full of so much junk that you can't expect people to read all the warnings.

It also doesn't help when boston.com has a "great spring hikes" article and lists Lincoln/Lafayette as one of them. Did anybody else see that? There was still a lot of ice & snow on it when they mentioned that. I was expecting a rescue just from that article.

 

[erugs]

Here's the link to the boston.com story Roadtripper was referring to. Publications keep having to come up with stories and it is pretty easy to go to a guidebook and thumb through it without giving it a lot of thought. http://articles.boston.com/2012-04-15/travel/31329700_1_trails-popular-hikes-mount-monadnock In this case, the writer is Jeffrey Romano, who is more experienced in the world of hiking and has authored some guidebooks on the topic.

 

[Tom Rankin]

He left late in the day for the hike, not allowing enough time to complete it;


You beat me to the punch. Since when is there a curfew? (Besides winter credit on the last day of winter ) I've started up Tecumseh after 4pm in winter with the intention of watching the sun set and descending under headlamp.

I hope no one would condemn you for your Tecumseh hike. You had a headlamp, and you returned safely. This other guy, not so much...

Some people's maturity levels (in hiking, or dating, etc.) allow them a different curfew time!

 

[JCarter]

My first hike was the Lincoln-Lafayette loop over Memorial day when I was 21. I ran out of food and water and only had a t-shirt. There was ice on the top 1/4 of the hike and it was very cold going across the ridge. I'd say temps were in the 30s. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing.

Had I gotten in trouble, I should not have been charged in my opinion. If you don't have a hiking tutor, you have absolutely no idea what can happen in these mountains. The billboards at trailheads are also full of so much junk that you can't expect people to read all the warnings.

It also doesn't help when boston.com has a "great spring hikes" article and lists Lincoln/Lafayette as one of them. Did anybody else see that? There was still a lot of ice & snow on it when they mentioned that. I was expecting a rescue just from that article.

My reaction when that article came out was WTH? "easier hikes"? Lincoln-Lafayette loop?

If there was a rescue on the Franconia Ridge this spring, F&G should have billed the Boston Globe.

 

[sierra]

There will always be beginners and inexperienced. In spite of our attempts to deny it, all of us were once beginners and/or inexperienced. (However, some of us did have the luck/wisdom to start under competent tutors or to study up before going out.)

Note that the sport would die without a supply of potentially inexperienced new blood.

Doug

I guess you had more wisdom then I did back then. I knew nobody who hiked and I learned just by going out and suffering. I think what saved me was I could tell when I was right on the edge of not living, then I would make the appropiate adjustments to my trip. I have never denied that there needs to be new blood, actually that is a very wierd statement coming from you.

 

[RoySwkr]

Observation: I imagine if "they" wanted to spin this positively, these "rubber" boots would have been described (accurately) as "waterproof" sending a very different message of preparedness when describing the same set of footwear.

I've done about 5 rounds of the NH winter 4k wearing 12" rubber boots, about a new pair every year and toss in the fall when they started leaking. The chain tread has good traction on snow/mud, they're relatively waterproof, relatively lightweight - chief disadvantage is that crampons don't attach very well. I'd be wearing them still if they were available at a reasonable price - I used to pay like $7 at a clearance sale.

If he expected slushy snow and brooks running high, those knee-high boots might be more functional than Limmers!

 

[RoySwkr]

She and her husband were doing a "loop hike." Since when is Champney considered a loop? A lollypop, maybe, if one goes over to the Sisters, or around the bad weather bypass (Westside Trail).

It said she was crossing over the summit so maybe she was doing the Champney-BeeLine-Bolles loop. I met some people on the Bolles Trail who were doing that and they were shocked that they had to climb back over the main ridge. At the time I thought they were real idiots for planning that loop without understanding contours but I later saw it was recommended in a Forest Service publication!

 

[erugs]

It said she was crossing over the summit so maybe she was doing the Champney-BeeLine-Bolles loop. I met some people on the Bolles Trail who were doing that and they were shocked that they had to climb back over the main ridge. At the time I thought they were real idiots for planning that loop without understanding contours but I later saw it was recommended in a Forest Service publication!

Excellent point! Just because I wouldnl't have considered it doesn't mean others haven't. (And actually, I have considered it but not dared to suggest it to my closest hiking friends.)

 

[Mike P.]

I guess if you interview well, you can carry less. I read one page of comments so if I miss something sorry. I have to think Larry Davis would have been forgiven for not carrying a Monadnock map....

For years I walked miles in the woods hunting in rubber hunting boots, all fall & winter, they fit loose enough for extra socks. I've met Austrians on Camel's Hump in sandals too. In summer, depending on the hike, I can be found in trail shoes, boots or sneakers. What does F&G have to say about Five Fingers?? Rubber boots offer much more support.

Does everyone always carry a map? I leave a few in my car but I'm sure the last few Franconia trips, Pierce & Ike trips & Greylock trips, I've gone without a map & compass. (A trip in the Northern peaks, BSP, or many ADK trips, that's another story)

I try & do Monadnock & a South Taconic trip every year starting after 6:00 PM in the summer. (without a map & compass too)

 

[erugs]

I've done about 5 rounds of the NH winter 4k wearing 12" rubber boots, about a new pair every year and toss in the fall when they started leaking. The chain tread has good traction on snow/mud, they're relatively waterproof, relatively lightweight - chief disadvantage is that crampons don't attach very well. I'd be wearing them still if they were available at a reasonable price - I used to pay like $7 at a clearance sale.

If he expected slushy snow and brooks running high, those knee-high boots might be more functional than Limmers!

This photo attachment was more like what I was thinking when I read knee high rubber boots. I can wear mine for a little while and the cold Maine waters help keep the overheating under control.

 

[DougPaul]

There will always be beginners and inexperienced. In spite of our attempts to deny it, all of us were once beginners and/or inexperienced. (However, some of us did have the luck/wisdom to start under competent tutors or to study up before going out.)

Note that the sport would die without a supply of potentially inexperienced new blood.

Doug

I guess you had more wisdom then I did back then. I knew nobody who hiked and I learned just by going out and suffering. I think what saved me was I could tell when I was right on the edge of not living, then I would make the appropiate adjustments to my trip. I have never denied that there needs to be new blood, actually that is a very wierd statement coming from you.

I was lucky enough to have parents who were day hikers and we frequently vacationed at a place which featured competently led day hikes. That said, some of my early hikes wouldn't meet current standards. (One was a noon start for Mt Washington with no lights...)

Glad you made it through the early period.

My comment about new blood was an editorial on much of the tone of this thread. The victim is being castigated for making a bunch of typical beginner "errors" (based upon a report containing a mixture of spin and limited real info). If we pounce on every beginner who does not meet expert standards, fewer will continue hike (or at least pay attention to this BBS).

Doug

 

[Mac]

24 oz. of water, a warm layer and a shell, and a couple of pinch flashlights

All items that the subject did not have.

 

[erugs]

My comment about new blood was an editorial on much of the tone of this thread. The victim is being castigated for making a bunch of typical beginner "errors" (based upon a report containing a mixture of spin and limited real info). If we pounce on every beginner who does not meet expert standards, fewer will continue hike (or at least pay attention to this BBS).

Doug

I think many of the comments here were questioning the type of information provided (not!) by the press about what happened, wanting clarity. Remember the 5 W's we learned about in Composition classes? What, Where, When, Why and Who. These were important points back when, so has there been a change in good reporting methods?

 

[DougG]

I for one am getting pretty tired of the F&G press releases. .

I'll second that.
These 'news' reports of hiker misfortune, stupidness, bad luck, etc., are about as news worthy as reporting a flat tire along I93.

 

[erugs]

I'll second that.
These 'news' reports of hiker misfortune, stupidness, bad luck, etc., are about as news worthy as reporting a flat tire along I93.

Of which people with an interest in tires would want to know basic facts, not just that it happened.