PDA

View Full Version : "climb for the wrong reasons"



carole
04-19-2006, 02:09 PM
...At one time the original compilers of the NHHH and 3000 footer lists were concerned that widespread distribution of these lists would lead to people attempting to climb them for the wrong reasons.

I myself have no idea what a wrong reason might constitute and very little idea of what a right reason is as well, but will respect the wishes of the compilers.



I found this statement (from the thread "Peakbagging lists"), "would lead to people attempting to climb them for the wrong reasons" to be quite interesting. I hope 'bill' won't mind me using his post as a start to a new thread but I think it would be quite interesting to read peoples comments as to 'right' or 'wrong' reasons for pursuing a 'list'.

Neil
04-19-2006, 02:17 PM
I don't believe there is a "wrong" reason to hike. There are perhaps reasons that are far from my personal values and maybe from most of the members of this site too. But, that dosn't make them wrong.

Whatever gets you through the night, is allright.

Shewolf
04-19-2006, 02:20 PM
I believe this is a subject that has been touched upon a few times but can be revisited.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a right or wrong reason for persuing a "list". I think it's a personal reason why each individual would persue a list. I'd believe that many folks are goal driven and completing a "list" gives them a goal to achieve. I'm one of those individuals, but once I've come to find that once I've completed my 46, I'll plan to revisit certain peaks that I found extremely enjoyable or challenging to hike. The "list" has me visiting peaks I may not have ventured upon if it didn't exist for me.

Of course, the problem with "lists", once you complete one list, you keep finding yourself making a new one...

C.Tracy
04-19-2006, 02:37 PM
I agree with Shewolf. I also think that most all ambitious people have "lists" which translate into goals. I also think people like to "make" memories from these lists, and some people do it with the attempt to "erase" memories. Whatever the reason, I believe it to be inconsequential so long as it is not just for "bragging". Each individual has to face themselves in the mirror, thats where you will find the real reason for their "List".

Pete_Hickey
04-19-2006, 02:53 PM
Of course there is a wrong reason. I should know, because I did it for years.

I climbed just for the money.

Now that I am filthy rich, I've given up climbing, and I'm glad, because I HATED it!!!!!

carole
04-19-2006, 03:01 PM
Whatever the reason, I believe it to be inconsequential so long as it is not just for "bragging".

So for bragging rights only it would be wrong?


I climbed just for the money.



For the money is wrong?

carole
04-19-2006, 03:11 PM
I found the statement interesting since the comment was “concerned that widespread distribution of these lists would lead to people attempting to climb them for the wrong reasons”. I recently was faced with a similar thought as I was aware of a list to hike peaks in an area dear to my heart. If I shared the list would it encourage more foot traffic (in a very low traveled area) and cause trash and damage to a nice area? Would people just go to ‘do’ another list and not appreciate the area? Would problems be caused for abutting property owners and access become limited? I mulled it over for awhile but realized that whether I shared the list or not word would travel and whether the reasons were ‘right’ or wrong’ for someone to pursue the list only time will demonstrate the results.

C.Tracy
04-19-2006, 03:14 PM
I guess I would have to define "Bragging", which can be looked at many different ways. I would not consider "sharing of experiences" as "Bragging". I would consider "Bragging" to be words out of the mouth from some obnoxious "blow hole" who can't stop talking about themself. You know, the typical "know it all, done it all". I do think climbing for "Money" is way too cool :D .

Neil
04-19-2006, 03:20 PM
So for bragging rights only it would be wrong?


For the money is wrong?
Man, someone wants to pay me to hike, I'll hike even more. I'll even brag about it!

C.Tracy
04-19-2006, 03:23 PM
On a serious note however, I would keep it to myself if you want to keep this area less traveled. People will find out about it sometime anyway, no use excelerating it. Enjoy it while you can.

cbcbd
04-19-2006, 03:24 PM
This little bird used to feed me opium at the top of this mountain - it kept me hiking... until he stopped... and then I stopped... and went crazy. Many months of rehab...



Hike your own hike - simple as that. If you're outside in nature and not causing harm to anyone it's fine with me.

timmus
04-19-2006, 03:40 PM
I believe that the reasons why someone is hiking is just not our business.

Let's just say that hiking is more popular than ever, list or not, and it is better this than seeing the society getting obese.

TCD
04-19-2006, 04:42 PM
I think cb kind of hit on it. The only wrong reason would be for a reason that does material harm to others. Let's say, hiking for the purpose of stealing other's equipment, or for the purpose of vandalizing the facilities or dumping garbage.

Everyone's right reasons are their own.

post'r boy
04-19-2006, 04:49 PM
This little bird used to feed me opium at the top of this mountain - it kept me hiking... until he stopped... and then I stopped... and went crazy. Many months of rehab...



Hike your own hike - simple as that. If you're outside in nature and not causing harm to anyone it's fine with me.

i agree with abcde!!! or something like that!! :D ;)

and i also agree with timmus; http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=137237&postcount=12

i go out to the woods to go to new places, i travel the world to go to new places, call it a list or whatever you like. right or wrong it's what i like to do. :D

sli74
04-19-2006, 04:53 PM
i agree with abcde!!! or something like that!! :D

and i also agree with timmus; http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=137237&postcount=12

i go out to the woods to go to new places, i travel the world to go to new places, call it a list or whatever you like. right or wrong it's what like to do. :D

And I agree with post'r boy . . . who agrees with timmus . . .

One person's right reason can be another person's wrong reason and vice versa.

Why does it matter to anyone what reason another has for hiking. Even my reasons are different from time to time, sometimes I go for the company, sometimes for the views, sometimes to think, sometimes to cry, sometimes to laugh and be joyful, sometimes for the exercise, sometimes for all or none of the above, but why I go is really for me to know . . .

I don't really think there is a right or wrong reason (except if the reason is to cause harm to others).

sli74

Snowflea
04-19-2006, 05:13 PM
And I agree w/Seema, who agrees w/Post'r Boy, who agrees w/Timmus.

:D

But seriously, what gives any of us the right to question and judge others' reasons for doing *anything* in their own lives? And what's with this "right" and "wrong?" Personally, I stopped seeing things in such black-and-white terms a long time ago...

:cool:

Rob S
04-19-2006, 05:33 PM
I hike, therefore I am. :D

I agree with Stinky, who agrees with Seema, who agrees with Postr Boy, who agrees with Timmus ..... :D :D

mavs00
04-19-2006, 06:12 PM
I agree with....... well, all those folks (lost track by now) :D.

I've found that MANY people that begin to question peoples motives for "pursuing different lists" do so for other reasons than really questioning their doing so for the rightness or wrongness factor of it, if you get my drift ;) . I openly discuss an obscure list I'm chasing (ADK100) and I'm sure it pisses some off that I discuss it so freely (here and on my site). Why am I doing it. Quite simply it makes me feel good.

For me, its not really about the personal reasons why people climb. Those vary widely and cannot really be disputed. Whose to say my reasons are more (or less) valid than yours. So long as a healthy respect for the mountains we climb are in all of us, than the reasons we climb them are not all that important. It's about respect and humbleness (is that a word). It does not mater whether you stroll slowly, or run willy nilly over every summit, as long as you understand each summit and mountain is greater than you (and act that way while you are there), then it really matters not the specific reason for being there.

We're all there for a reason, and so long as each of us understand and appreciate the ground we tread over, then it's all good. I hope this makes sense, I sometimes have trouble putting these type thoughts to print :o

NewHampshire
04-19-2006, 06:14 PM
Hike your own hike - simple as that. If you're outside in nature and not causing harm to anyone it's fine with me.

Im with you cbcbd. Hiking to check a peak off a list, or hike for views, exercise....whatever. Its all better than getting fat and lazy in front of the TV on a gorgeous day.....

Brian

NH_Mtn_Hiker
04-19-2006, 07:34 PM
I agree with everybody:)...but just this one time.:p:D

alpinista
04-19-2006, 07:34 PM
There was a time a few years back when I feel I started to hike for all the "wrong" reasons _ that NH48 list became a chore, I was hiking just to notch off another peak. It really nagged at me, weighed me down in my pursuit. But eventually, I started to get out and hike to really enjoy the moment, to see something new and experience it.

The end result: I'm still pursuing lists, I'm still hiking but emotionally, for me, I feel as though I'm hiking for all the "right" reasons.

Someone who doesn't know me or know that battle that waged inside of me may think nothing has changed since they'd see me still hiking mountains on a list. But I know it's a different goal and a different pursuit.

So with all of that ... I agree with what all those other folks just said!

HAMTERO
04-19-2006, 07:51 PM
I hike so I can put on dry socks at the end. :D

forestgnome
04-19-2006, 08:17 PM
I have come to accept the "list" concept of other hikers. It is totally bewildering to me, but I've decided that it is just another thing that makes me a unique person. What still makes my skin crawl is when someone says something like "glad to be done with Owl's Head, that sucked!" I can't imagine hiking through the heart of the Pemigawassett Wilderness for a check mark on a list, and not enjoying it.

I wouldn't judge that as 'wrong', but I think it is sad. To judge another hiker's motive as 'wrong' is elitist.

Happy Trails!

Neil
04-19-2006, 08:27 PM
I racked my brains to come with some wrong reasons for hiking and found a couple I think.

1-Hiking trailless peaks over and over for the express purpose of forming herd trails.
2- In order to deliberately destroy one's hip and knee joints so as to receive permanant disability payments.


BTW, I think completing lists is cool. I also think ignoring lists is cool.

My favorite lists: summits I have stood upon. Ponds I have bushwhacked to. Slides I have climbed. Gatherings I have attended.

alpinista
04-19-2006, 08:33 PM
I hike so I can put on dry socks at the end. :D

That's as "good" a reason as any!

SteveHiker
04-19-2006, 08:44 PM
I can't believe no one has mentioned beer. What better reason could there be?

audrey
04-19-2006, 08:54 PM
I agree with forestnome, it's sad to hear someone say the view stinks, or the trail is boring. You either have a passion or you don't. I have a friend who is a good hiker but will never go unless I cajole her, and afterwards she tells me what a great time she had and she's got to do it more, but she doesn't.

It's natural to want people to hike your hike. When someone rushes past a flower or steps on it, I feel they are missing out on much of the experience. But I do understand it's also exhilarating to "knock off" a bunch of peaks and many miles in a day.

There's way too much judging and moralizing going on in the world already!

funkyfreddy
04-20-2006, 12:24 AM
There's way too much judging and moralizing going on in the world already!

That's for sure, it's like an addiction for a lot of us! :eek:

Let's see..... some would say I hike for the wrong reasons.....
because I hike to escape from REALITY, the reality that my species has created....... the reality of greed, litter, toxic waste, noise pollution, air pollution, over population, the 60 cycle hum and web of paperwork, wires, and satellites that enslave us all.........

I hike to experience the small crumbs, bits, and parcels of the natural world we have left to us.... before they too are sold out to the developers, divided up with roads.......... before our mountains, fields, and pastures are paved over with housing developments, strip malls, and wind factories and the star light is blotted out from the night sky by human haze and man made light.......

I hike to escape from machines, the vid screens, TV and telephone, the traffic jams, the mediocrity and trivia of our culture......

I hike to experience natural rhythms once again, the rhythms of the earth and my body, to get up with the sun.......

I hike to experience natural sounds again..... the birds, the wind, the water....

Oh dear, I'm afraid I'm getting a little carried away here, aren't I!? :D :eek: :rolleyes: Oh yes, I also hike for happiness, love, and my sanity.... that too! :) :eek: :D :confused: :p

Skyclimber
04-20-2006, 06:37 AM
I agree with forestnome, it's sad to hear someone say the view stinks, or the trail is boring. You either have a passion or you don't.

I agree with you Audrey. NO Mountain Sucks or Stinks! Every Mountain holds some sort of beauty in it's own way, whether it be the trail, the surroundings or the summit view. The beauty comes, within the eye of the beholder and how one perceives it and puts it into perspective.

pilgrim
04-20-2006, 07:16 AM
I can't think of any wrong reasons to hike.

I can think of wrong reasons to stay home.

TheChez
04-20-2006, 07:53 AM
I set out 30 years ago to climb the White Mountain 4000 footers and the ADK 46, but then I found places that I fell in love with and visited over an over. I love the hike to Keene Valley from Big Slide over the Brothers, I have spent a dozen restful days watching the ravens on Phelps, many a Friday night has been spent at Garfield ridge. I would hike over Isolation again in a heart beat as it is a wonderful way to spend the day.

I finished the New Hampshire 4000 footers (with my 6 year old son climbing Moosilauke, his first 4000 footer) -still haven't applied to get the patch. I'll re-hike a lot of the Adirondack peaks before I finish the few I have left to accomplish my goal as I take my son "peakbagging" for his 46.

There is no wrong reason to go hiking, but I understand the statement that started this thread. I try to get across to my Boy Scouts that they will find something rich and wonderful in treating the trails as a place to be, not merely as something to get you someplace.

It just doesn't happen much anymore that I meet another hiker after a couple days alone and we fire up a pot of tea on the trail and chat for a while. That was a very good reason indeed to hike.

Wayne

Pig Pen
04-20-2006, 08:36 AM
I hike so that I can eat more big steaks. It also keeps me in better shape so that I may better oppress the poor and downtrodden.

Rik
04-20-2006, 08:54 AM
I agree with the socks and beer. I will also add sandals. And while I'm at it my body feels better, food tastes better, and my dogs sleep better.
Wrong reasons: to feed the black flies. (that would be wrong for me but whatever anyone else wants to do just do it)

the starchild
04-20-2006, 09:52 AM
I have come to accept the "list" concept of other hikers. It is totally bewildering to me, but I've decided that it is just another thing that makes me a unique person. What still makes my skin crawl is when someone says something like "glad to be done with Owl's Head, that sucked!" I can't imagine hiking through the heart of the Pemigawassett Wilderness for a check mark on a list, and not enjoying it.

I wouldn't judge that as 'wrong', but I think it is sad. To judge another hiker's motive as 'wrong' is elitist.

Happy Trails!


i agree with forestnome!

while i will someday complete the 48 and w48 and maybe the 46 etc etc, i have always hiked to just be outside and enjoy it. i have always loved backpacking to disconnect and reconnect with the real world. i found out about the lists much later and it is a tradition i would like to take part in.

i think i understand what someone might mean when they say, "hiking for the wrong reasons." they probably are saying people who hike just to check-off mountains on a list are missing something and not seeing the forest for the trees nor enjoying all the beautifulness between the summit and trailhead. but hey, i will agree with !12climbup who agrees with Stinky, who agrees with Seema, who agrees with Postr Boy, who agrees with Timmus about who cares...just enjoy yourself, its all good!

personally, i cringe a bit when i see trip report or hear someone refer to mountains ONLY as #43 or #20. i find that kinda disrespectful to the mountain. its soooooo much more than that. (to me atleast) :) the summit is only a small part of the mountain. a few weeks ago i spent two weekends camped at monadnock hiking, whacking and exploring the mountain. there's much, much, much more there than the summit. thoreau's bog, lost trails, forgotten history, the minor summits, the spellman trail, and fun stuff you just stumble upon off trail.

i think there are alot of differences between:

someone who loves to hike/backpack and is wanting to complete a list
and
someone who wants to complete a list and hikes/backpacks.

not making any judgements, but i think there is a difference and there's room for everyone, if we were all the same the world would not only be a boring place...it'd probably wilt and die.

william

Skyclimber
04-20-2006, 10:32 AM
personally, i cringe a bit when i see trip report or hear someone refer to mountains ONLY as #43 or #20. i find that kinda disrespectful to the mountain. its soooooo much more than that. (to me atleast) :) the summit is only a small part of the mountain. a few weeks ago i spent two weekends camped at monadnock hiking, whacking and exploring the mountain. there's much, much, much more there than the summit. thoreau's bog, lost trails, forgotten history, the minor summits, the spellman trail, and fun stuff you just stumble upon off trail.
william

That's someone who wants to complete a list and hikes/backpacks. :eek:

Part of a right reason to hike, is to solely be respectful towards the mountains, trails and summits. Enjoying the challenge and getting satisfaction within the hike for whatever reason you might have.

I'm sure I will be flamed for this one but a wrong reason would be for just finishing a list for the sake of doing it and getting a patch for doing so. Then never hike again. This brings to mind a quote from Paul Jaimeson, "It's easier to become a Forty Sixer than to be one."

bill bowden
04-20-2006, 10:37 AM
No annoyance taken at use of my line to start a discussion. To try to respond seriously to the question of "wrong" reasons and putting some words in the mouth of some old friends:

The 4000 footer and at least some of the other lists began as an effort to spread out the environmental impact of hiking. At that time a very few mountains such as LaFayette and Lincoln were getting a very high level of foot traffic and it was hoped that having a formal list of peaks would divert folks who were already hiking and spread the impact. for example, neither the Hancocks nor Owl's Head had a trail at that time.

So doing a list of peaks for the "wrong" reasons might be hiking just to have done the peaks rather than enjoy the act of hiking and the experience of the New England woods and alpine communitities.

cbcbd
04-20-2006, 10:41 AM
It's beginning to sound like some people feel that the mountains go unapreciated by some.
Truth is, there will be always someone who is probably enjoying the mountain on a deeper level than you are.

I could make an effort to study and document every plant and animal on my hikes, then meditate on the meaning of the mountain for hours on the summit, and then make a sacrifice to the mountain gods, and then I could say that anyone who did less was not appreciating the mountain the way it should be appreciated.

If you are there and I happen to be there I will smile and say hi, because I know that both of us took the effort to be out here - and then we can laugh and complain together about the people who took the auto road...

mavs00
04-20-2006, 10:42 AM
So doing a list of peaks for the "wrong" reasons might be hiking just to have done the peaks rather than enjoy the act of hiking and the experience of the New England woods and alpine communitities.

That is the exact sentiment I was trying to get at when I said

"So long as a healthy respect for the mountains we climb are in all of us, than the reasons we climb them are not all that important. It's about respect and humbleness (is that a word). It does not mater whether you stroll slowly, or run willy nilly over every summit, as long as you understand each summit and mountain is greater than you (and act that way while you are there), then it really matters not the specific reason for being there. "

Only done so much more articulately.


It's beginning to sound like some people feel that the mountains go unapreciated by some. Truth is, there will be always someone who is probably enjoying the mountain on a deeper level than you are.

Without question. No doupt about it, people won't be as sapy and spiritual as I may feel it about it. I never expect that, but there certainly should be a minimum baseline of respect that all can appreciate. We've all see a few that carry themselves in a manner that shows an utter disrespect for thier surroundings. That was how I saw it anyway.

Jasonst
04-20-2006, 11:29 AM
I hike so that I can eat more big steaks. It also keeps me in better shape so that I may better oppress the poor and downtrodden.

:D :D
Ok, I thought that was funny...

I order to call a motive "wrong", don't we need to define the word? I think this topic is really silly - we are climbing piles of dirt and rock and questioning others motives for doing so. Why do we need to get so philosophical? I suppose I am one of those who would admit having climbed to the summit of Owl's head and thought "boy am I glad that's over." I hike for the exercise and the views and get my religion elsewhere. Why judge someone elses motives?

giggy
04-20-2006, 11:32 AM
we could debate this issue to death - I will sum it up by saying to each their own -

I have not hiked the 48, 46 and most likely never will. Why - becuase I have no interest in hiking wooded summits for the most part - I like that top out with majestic views as a reward at the end - thats what gets my blood pumping. Others get theirs by getting their scrolls - both are accomplishments.

I have done the mountains above 5K multiple times, most routes, and in every season. (minus baxter) - why becuase thats what I am into -

I am into snowfeilds/ice, and everything above treeline has to offer much more than checking off a list - climbing washington for the 14 time in winter via a route I haven't done is way more interesting to me than hiking mt hale for the first time in winter.

Its just my opinion and hiking the lists is goal focused for some people and thats 100% great as well. Again - its what your into.

whats annoying is others telling you what is right and wrong and what you should be doing to make it official, correct and by the book and ethical, - thats feckin' lame!! :mad:

do what you enjoy - there is no right or wrong - if someone wants to do webster to check off a list - I say have fun. If someone wants to hike adams for the 20th time if thats what they like - I say go out & have fun and toss down a few brews after :D :D ;) ;)

spongebob
04-20-2006, 12:40 PM
I guess I am one of those sad people that has done some lists along the way, and I get cringed at as I appear to hike for the wrong reasons to some.

Yet you probably have never met or know me. Why do you think you know why I hike and how I enjoy it?

I really do think there are people that are not giving their full opinion or watering down their post to not appear that there way of hiking is the best. (elitist, superior, blah blah blah)

An example:
Some people would consider it “hiking for the wrong reasons” when I sometimes use a GPS, as they feel it is a toy or it is a crutch. (From seeing some views from people in past threads on the subject.) I guess using the Earth’s magnetic field isn’t cheating though for a compass. It is all a matter of perspective. When I was in New Zealand my GPS helped in a helicopter rescue of a hypothermic hiker in a in a foggy rainy area. Was the GPS a toy or crutch to the rescued hiker? Now if you want to argue the Earth’s magnetic field is free range and organic, and a GPS is raised by big corporations. I really would dig that angle.

We are all doing lists even though you don’t think you are. You are doing the “Earth hiking” list or the “No list” hiking list. Like when you “bagged #45” (walking to your car from your house.) I won’t look down at you or feel superior. (Unless you are JayH, because he bikes to work, and does not support the oil companies and their giant profits. Pretty self centered Jay.)

Everyone hikes for their own reason. If you hike because you hate rocks, and want to walk on as many as possible…..Go for it! (Ok that is my reason.)

I also really like seeing remote ponds, getting my legs cut up while bushwhacking, writing “Nancy is a Geek” in canisters, have HarryK break trail, have the velvet hammer plan a weekend, make rude jokes at or with Funky and Matt…….I guess the mountains, streams, views, forests, and wildlife are somewhat not totally puke inducing (Hudson River excluded)…..…the list could go on……whoops what is another word for list…..damn….

I guess it really shouldn’t matter why people hike. (Unless they are a fugitive on the run from the law.) We all have different reasons. You may feel a person may not respect the outdoors, but someone might not respect you for not getting all the information before forming your opinion. Damn that makes me an elitist.

Oh, and I kick kittens, club baby seals (Well until the lead pipe broke this season.), and drive thru puddles to splash old ladies. So maybe you are better than me.

DougG
04-20-2006, 12:52 PM
I think this question/discussion resurfaces now and then because of what we have been conditioned to believe hiking has become. Something more complex than it really is.

By GAWD - consider the catalogs. There must be right vs. wrong stuff to buy to be a 'proper' hiker.
Consider the explosion of guidebooks in recent decades. There must be right vs. wrong places to hike.
Consider the abundance of rules and regulations. These clearly demonstrate right from wrong.
How many threads on these BBs discuss/debate/enrage on topics considered right from wrong?
To attempt clarity, I'm not suggesting any of these are good or bad. My point is that with the conditioning we've received, it's not unusual to expand the thought process to wonder if we're hiking for the 'right' reason.

Now go out and put one in front of the other. ;)

blacknblue
04-20-2006, 04:44 PM
Of course, the nature of this discussion hinges on the definition of "wrong" or "right." Perhaps discussing healthy vs. unhealthy reasons would be beneficial and less contentious?

It seems obvious that there are plenty of unhealthy reasons to hike (or to do anything, for that matter - activities are seldom inherently 'good'). However, discerning those reasons in others is probably impossible, which is why people get defensive when called out in such a way. The only people qualified to discern whether my actions are healthy/right or unhealthy/wrong are myself and a few very close friends.

Sometimes I'm tempted to go for a hike/camping trip/ski trip for reasons that are unhealthy, usually having to do with avoiding difficult situations (although I can always make rationales for it) that I really should be dealing with. Sometimes my obsessive behavior manifests itself in hiking / climbing / mountaineering goals that probably aren't emotionally healthy.

Tough question to answer.... it takes a lot of self-awareness and introspection (and some years of retrospection) to really figure out what may or may not be healthy.

chipc
04-20-2006, 05:20 PM
Hard not to agree with most of what’s being said, but in the end I think Spongebob has it right – “Everyone hikes for their own reason.” Also I like Blacknblue’s modification to “healthy” vs “unhealthy” reasons .

I definitely have hiked to escape from a responsibility; however, more often at the last minute I have opted not to hike because of some work or home responsibility. Sounds weird – hiking is my favorite way to relax, but I have to be relaxed to be able to hike.
:confused:

sierra
04-20-2006, 05:40 PM
seemas post was very good and I concurr. Now that being said I have hiked to simply escape from life, without going into details Something very bad happened to me many years ago, life was awfull and I could not take people, working, family, anything. So I escaped to the mountains and climbed over and over, I averaged over 120 4ks a year for a while. It was medicinal and it gave me what I needed, space, it also kept me fit while I pummeled my body with alcohol and drugs. In the end I came out quite a climber, well versed in rock,ice, peakbagging and navigation, but way more important, I came out a new man with a love for what cured me and gave me time to think and move on, the mountains, now I climb because the mountains became part of my soul, all mountains, here, in CO in CA, I love all mountains and the tidings they have to offer.
Now that I think about it, this really doesnt fit this posting, I hiked for the right reasons after all. Be Well all.

Neil
04-20-2006, 06:07 PM
Right and wrong are decided by the majority aren't they? Eating the brains of one's enemies is considered "right" in some populations. I'm sure it's "wrong" according to every one on this forum. (Well maybe not EVERYone) Same for reasons for hiking. You could say that the wrong reason(s) for hiking are those that the majority of VFTT members disapprove of and be done with it.

So, what do YOU disapprove of in a peakbagging list chaser? I personally disapprove of people bitching about doing a hike they don't really want to do simply for the purposes of getting closer to completion of a list.

(Incidentally, I heartily approve of Giggy and his doing Washington umpteen different ways. In fact while doing the Carters the other day I was looking over at the big W thinking about just that.
That is one kick-ass mountain. Why settle for second best when the best is right there?)

chas
04-20-2006, 06:12 PM
I finished the New Hampshire 4000 footers (with my 6 year old son climbing Moosilauke, his first 4000 footer) -still haven't applied to get the patch.

That's pretty much where I ended up a while back, finised the NH 48 and never really cared about the patch.

This year I started hiking again, partly for fitness and partly because one of my sons (now grown) developed his own zeal for the NH 4000s'. What I've noticed is this; when I hike with my son, it's all about what peak is next etc. When I plan a solo trip I have the luxury of choosing what I think would be nice, usually based on previous trips from my peak bagging days or what I read here. In short, neither way is right or wrong, it's just that there's a freedom that comes when you're finished with the lists and I like that.

Chas.

sleeping bear
04-20-2006, 09:33 PM
It's all about goals, lists make for nice goals.

I have my own list.

--M.
04-20-2006, 09:37 PM
I hike in the usually-vain hope of dining upon the brains of my enemies when I get to the top. So far, I have eaten not one enemy's brain! What the hell?

Well, I continue to hike anyway.

If one of you is really feeling philanthropic, could you piss me off real bad and then hang around a 4k peak? Thanks, you're a dear.

--Hannibal.

VFTTop'r
04-21-2006, 09:53 AM
:D :D
Ok, I thought that was funny...

I order to call a motive "wrong", don't we need to define the word? I think this topic is really silly - we are climbing piles of dirt and rock and questioning others motives for doing so. Why do we need to get so philosophical? I suppose I am one of those who would admit having climbed to the summit of Owl's head and thought "boy am I glad that's over." I hike for the exercise and the views and get my religion elsewhere. Why judge someone elses motives?


I aggree with Jason. Who cares?!

I also do it to help the environment by keeping the trails well packed and add a few stones to the new cairn at the base of Owls Head, etc. :D :eek:

JohnL
04-21-2006, 10:05 AM
Right and wrong are decided by the majority aren't they?

I am not sure I would want any majority deciding for me whether my reasoning for hiking is right or wrong or for that matter, on how I hike. Caveat: no destruction, no injuries, no abuse.

The whole concept of right reasons or wrong reasons to hike conjures up a position of elitism; my reasons are more right than yours, I’m a more serious hiker than you, I have more reverence for the mountains than you; I appreciate the flora/fauna more than you, yadda yadda yadda.

Whenever I come across these threads, I am taken back to a quote from a climber/author who said:
"We do not deceive ourselves that we are engaging in an activity that is anything but debilitating, dangerous, euphoric, kinesthetic, expensive, frivolously essential, economically useless and totally without redeeming social significance. One should not probe for deeper meanings." — Allen Steck, 1967.

JohnL

Pete_Hickey
04-21-2006, 10:42 AM
The whole concept of right reasons or wrong reasons to hike conjures up a position of elitism
Is elitism wrong?

ATVers and snowmobilers frequently claim that hikers are elitist.

Is it wrong to beleive in something and stand up for it?

Several have used the word religion, so let me add a different twist to this.

Is there a wrong reason to prey to God? Surely praying is good, right?

What if you are praying for strength to prey upon kill your enemies? Or praying to amass ungodly wealth?

There are many religious people that may think you are wrong because you ____________ (fill in the blank). They say I'm wrong, because I ... (I ain't telling you what I do) Are they wrong? Are they elitist? Maybe.

So people who think the mountains are religious thing, and beleive that respect should be shown to them...well it's the same kind of thing for me.

VFTTop'r
04-21-2006, 10:57 AM
Is elitism wrong?

ATVers and snowmobilers frequently claim that hikers are elitist.

Is it wrong to beleive in something and stand up for it?

Several have used the word religion, so let me add a different twist to this.

Is there a wrong reason to prey to God? Surely praying is good, right?

What if you are praying for strength to prey upon kill your enemies? Or praying to amass ungodly wealth?

There are many religious people that may think you are wrong because you ____________ (fill in the blank). They say I'm wrong, because I ... (I ain't telling you what I do) Are they wrong? Are they elitist? Maybe.

So people who think the mountains are religious thing, and beleive that respect should be shown to them...well it's the same kind of thing for me.

Speaking of religion, Jesus said "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes to the Father but through me." in John 14:6.

Does this make Him an elitist?

"Is it wrong to believe in something and stand up for it?"

What if what you believe in is wrong? Is it wrong to stand up for something that is wrong? Say one believes that 1+1= 6 should they stand up for that?

Ahh, the questions one must face living in pluralistic culture.

sli74
04-21-2006, 11:31 AM
WOW !!! If I had this much time, I would go hiking ;) ;) and for all the wrong reasons :D

sli74

giggy
04-21-2006, 11:44 AM
Speaking of religion, Jesus said "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes to the Father but through me." in John 14:6.

Does this make Him an elitist?


an elitist? nah - A whackjob maybe ;) no one come thru the father but thru me? - what the heck does that mean :confused: :confused: - guess I shouldn't have blown off sunday school to make out with girls in the woods.

Jasonst
04-21-2006, 12:48 PM
So people who think the mountains are religious thing, and beleive that respect should be shown to them...well it's the same kind of thing for me.

I have no problem respecting the beliefs / feelings of others, but that type of "religion" is the only type that seems to be tollerated on this site. I believe this site is for information and sharing of hiking related ideas and have little patience when it is allowed to stray off course.

VFTTop'r
04-21-2006, 12:51 PM
an elitist? nah - A whackjob maybe ;) no one come thru the father but thru me? - what the heck does that mean :confused: :confused: - guess I shouldn't have blown off sunday school to make out with girls in the woods.


"what the heck does that mean"
Well since you asked...

Jesus was talking to His disciples and said:

1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
4 "And you know the way where I am going." 5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?" 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me"

John 14

Short answer: Heaven/eternal life
:D

JohnL
04-21-2006, 01:01 PM
Did you know that the fastest non-flying bird is the Off-Topic Grouse? Seriously, though.........And back to our regularly scheduled On Topic Subject.

Elitism: The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

In my statement, I alluded to the concept of elitism strictly in regards to the principle subject of this thread: right and wrong reasons for hiking. Not religion. Not religious beliefs. Not snowmobilers vs hikers. Not believers standing up for their rights. Not disrespect for others.

My point, which apparently was missed, is that everyone has their own reasons for hiking. Let me expound. Those reasons are right for them, not necessarily for everyone. Those reasons are neither right nor wrong. They are strictly their own reasons for doing this activity in which we all have a common interest. I completely support anyone’s reasons (my caveat still stands ) for hiking, even though they may not be the same reasons that I hike.

Here’s my point about elitism in this context: I do not subscribe to the concept or belief that any person or group of persons deserve special consideration or treatment because of their differing reasons for hiking. One reason should not elevate them to a different status nor put them into a “more right” category of hiker. If you believe they do, I support your right to believe it. Then we’ll agree to disagree and get back on the trail.

JohnL

C.Tracy
04-21-2006, 01:42 PM
Amen Brother :cool:

giggy
04-21-2006, 02:31 PM
I guess jesus never took a business writing class - that quote is not short, distinct, nor too the point

I hike for the right reasons - becuase I love it :D :D

dr_wu002
04-21-2006, 02:40 PM
I guess jesus never took a business writing class - that quote is not short, distinct, nor too the point

I hike for the right reasons - becuase I love it :D :D
I hike because I love Giggy!! The both of us love to go 'whacking!!

-Dr. Wu

Gris
04-21-2006, 02:47 PM
guess I shouldn't have blown off sunday school to make out with girls in the woods ROTFLOL!!! :D Gig, man we gotta go hiking. Don't know about an overnighter w/ ya tho...

Sorry, VFTTop-er, you'll get yer reward in heaven.

SERIOUSLY, Nista nailed it. What Bowden was probably referring to was when folks get list obsessed and end up not enjoying the moment. I'm sure everyone has their own stories about meeting people out in the mountains who really weren't having fun because they were all anal about this, that or the other. Just one of many that sticks out in my head was a father daughter I ran into in the Whites several summers ago. She was having BAD knee pain, maybey because she was 15 and nearly six foot - growing like a weed. They were newbies and her dad was bagging S. Twin and wouldnt even stop to hear her complaints. I wrapped one knee, gave her one of my poles and told her to hike her own hike. But really I wanted to run up the trail ahead & open up a can of whoop a-- on her dad.

giggy
04-21-2006, 02:57 PM
ROTFLOL!!! :D Gig, man we gotta go hiking. Don't know about an overnighter w/ ya tho...


anytime - SK mentiond you live in FLA? I am harmless and married these days, only make out with myself in the woods now - self love dude

if your gonna be up here in may/jun give me a PM - got some stuff in the hopper - and it always involves 4 letter words and after hike liquor.

SteveHiker
04-21-2006, 03:56 PM
I do know of one guy who hiked for the wrong reason.

A couple years ago, this guy was speeding down I-91. I don't recall if that was his only crime at the time or not. The Vermont state police was pursuing him. A few miles ahead, state trooper set up a spike strip. When he saw the spike strip he swerved into the median, ran the trooper over, killing the trooper. He continued on foot, down to the Connecticut River and got away. He was eventually found in Pennsylvania by state troopers on the AT.

Darwin
04-21-2006, 07:32 PM
Whether it be lists, exercise, spiritualism or any other reason; If you're not having fun and doing it for yourself it's for the wrong reasons - IMO.