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View Full Version : Barebothable, crampons & snowshoes! ?



PINPIN JUNIOR
12-28-2003, 04:15 PM
After yesterday, when We need to insist for the people put the snowshoes, on the Bigslide trail and today with the very bad holes on the Nippletop trail I can not resist!!

Snowshoes 101.

1- snowshoes: nice invention to be able to hike over the snow.

2- crampons: nice invention to be able to hike in the ice condition.

The second, crampons can not make the snowshoes job!!!

The rule is over 8 inches of snow You MUST use the snowshoes.

But if You have a real respect for the other people, when You can see, after 2 steps You made a hole over Your runningshoes it was the time to put your snoshoes on.

If You think it will be faster to do not use the snowshoes, just compare this time: Today, We need 55 minutes between Dial and Nippletop with wet and glue snow, usualy We need the same time in the summer condition.

We need 75 minutes for a round trip Colvin-Blake-Colvin, usualy in the summer, We need 90 minutes!!! Faster to go down & faster to go up!!!!

If You will met Pinpin Junior and You will have snowshoes, You will see a smile in my face, if You will not have snowshoes You will have a discussion with me.

It is too dangerous for the next peoples to hike in a bad conditions only because You think it is not necessary to use the snowshoes.

I hope every body will have a special reflection for this small thing!

Thank You.

Pinpin Junior.

Pete_Hickey
12-28-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by PINPIN JUNIOR
We need 75 minutes for a round trip Colvin-Blake-Colvin, usualy in the summer, We need 90 minutes!!! Faster to go down & faster to go up!!!!

Will I be able to go that fast if I wear snowshoes?

dug
12-29-2003, 04:01 PM
Why stop there?

Snowshoes 201:



3-The first person breaking trail hikes in a normal fashion. The second person ALTERNATES their snowshoe print, thereby making the trail a wider, smoother swath. Persons three & four follow in the same path, continuing to pack it down. Persons five & six begin to widen the trail in a similar fashion to the first two. Etc.

4-When hiking steep sections, after the initial trailbreaking (see persons one & two above), everyone else walks in the exact same spot. We can formulate "steps" up the steep slope, making it much easier on the calves. Every 50-100 steps the first person who was breaking trail steps off to the side and breaks a flat resting area for everyone else.

5-There will be no butt-sliding down the trail. This will make the trail too smooth, and will eventually ice it over too quickly.

**Please note, for those who do not follow the rules will have to allow the others to kick them in the shins with their crampons on.

PINPIN JUNIOR
12-29-2003, 06:07 PM
Hi Pete.

Yes, specialy if You will be able to catch a fast rabbit.

2 exemples:

1- In the winter, with perfect snow condition, lest of 3 hours, from the ADK parking, Marcy-Gray-Skylight top... We never made this time in all other condition.

2- Same condition: only in the sun light, (without headlamp) from ADK parking to the same place: Redfield-Allen-Skylight-Gray-Marcy...Never in the summer We attempt the same trip!!!

Yes We agree, when the snow is bad We are a little bit slow but usualy faster if We do not use snowshoes.

Have a good time in this special period..

Pinpin Junior.

prino
12-30-2003, 09:46 AM
Here! Here! Pinpin.....
I agree, Postholes are for making fences, not winter trails.

Bon Raquette mon ami!

Splitrock821
12-30-2003, 02:40 PM
As one of the two "rabbits" from Pin Pin's first post, it probably also bears mention that wearing crampons in deep snow (besides damaging the trail) makes it much harder to climb. Pete & I estimated that our anonymous friend who advanced both us and Pin Pin probably sank roughly 18 inches with every step- not a fun way to climb Colvin!! Snowshoes are definitely faster.

Weather was BEAUTIFUL on Sunday- best snowshoeing trip of the year. Closing in on our first 46....

Pete_Hickey
12-30-2003, 03:42 PM
Just in case any of you have never seen Pinpin, Here's a link that has his photo:

http://mbgnet.mobot.org/sets/taiga/animals/rabbit.htm

Mark Schaefer
12-30-2003, 04:56 PM
Mais Oui Pete, that is a very good likeness. Pinpin = le Lapin Agile, n'est-ce pas?

Rick
12-30-2003, 06:52 PM
He was lost for quite a while and fending on his own in the big woods? Right??

beverly
12-30-2003, 07:15 PM
Pinpin Senior spent some time lost in the Sewards after he jumped out of Alain's rucksack and was left behind. Luckily I ran into him - he was sitting on a rock in the melting snow. It seems he had forgotten his personal locator beacon and had to wait a long time for a rescue.
:D

Junior must have learned a thing or two from dear old Dad, because he has managed to stay out of trouble - so far.:D

taallison
01-01-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Pete_Hickey


5-There will be no butt-sliding down the trail. This will make the trail too smooth, and will eventually ice it over too quickly.

That's only my favorite part of the winter!!!

miehoff
01-01-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by PINPIN JUNIOR

But if You have a real respect for the other people, when You can see, after 2 steps You made a hole over Your runningshoes it was the time to put your snoshoes on.

A running shoe / snowshoe combinination...?? There was about 8 inches of snow yesterday when I was hiking, but I wore crampons. I refuse to wear snowshoes on packed snow and ice. I saw several people doing just that and they looked miserable (as well as unsafe). Face it, not everyone knows the deal.

bandana4me
01-01-2004, 06:46 PM
I am thankful that NH, and the whites have no mandatory snowshoe rule. I for one enjoy the option based on trail conditions. Most of the trails in the Whites are hard packed and can be bare booted. I let the trail dictate what I wear. Most of those post holes are probably from hikers stepping aside to let others by.

JimB
01-01-2004, 08:21 PM
PinPin Jr hikes almost every day and a lot of the broken out trails that we enjoy were opened up by him or some other hard working person or group that probably wore snowshoes. There is nothing finer than hiking a well worn trail that has been packed by many snowshoes. As stated above the times are much faster when the trails are smooth. This makes for a great day. When someone for whatever reason comes along and postholes the whole trail it makes a struggle for everyone coming behind. The statement "most of the trails in the Whites are hard packed" is nice. You're lucky(?) that they have so much traffic. If you have been following the ADK trip reports you will see that is not the case here except the very main access trails. It is only considerate to not wreck the trails for everyone else. Last year I went up Tabletop via the Marcy ski trail and despite the numerous signs at the trailhead and at many points on the ski trail someone had postholed up to their crotch at least 15 times in the very middle of this trail. If you were trying to ski down this beautiful trail you would have a different opinion.

miehoff
01-02-2004, 01:32 AM
I absolutely agree with your signature. So, when somebody moves, people get hurt. There is always going to be someone who postholes every winter.

PINPIN JUNIOR
01-03-2004, 08:30 AM
Every body hiked Calking brook trail, from the parking to the place wher We acrossed this brook, can see what a only people can destroy good snowshoes tracks!!!!

Hikerick... We saw where You remove your crampons, where You finaly put your snowshoes on and remove to early...

The nice confortable path was changing in Swiss chesse, where WE CAN SEE EACH YOUR STEP.

Please, Can You use snowshoes in warm temperature.

Thank You.

For more details read my report on the usual place.

Pinpin Junior without smile.

miehoff
01-03-2004, 12:58 PM
I also think, after hiking in the High Peaks and in the Whites last week, with the conditions are so terrible and inconsistent (from one mile to the next), that it is a bad time to judge what to wear.

I brought snowshoes in the High Peaks because they are required, but by no means was I about to put them on. How silly would that be? Sliding around, nearly killing myself on Noonmark because of the possibility of postholing. No way. Folks were doing it, and I had no idea why.

As I decended into the warmer temperatures, I postholed (occasionally!). I am guilty! Guilty mon! Ahhh, that trail had hard ice, crumbling ice, hard packed snow, softish snow, softer show, slush, water and mud. No winning on that one. So I am sorry if I created a few holes along the way. Much better than falling on my arse and busting my head open, eh? Crampons were my choice.

spider solo
01-04-2004, 04:48 PM
While I always find it interesting to read about the different rules and regs and the how's and wherefores on how to walk and talk while on the trails (ok talking is still optional, I think)
I must admit I cringe every time I read of "butt sliding". Now I might check every book on hiking, mountaineering ,snowshoeing etc ...every glossary, table of contents, and what not, but I just can't seem to find a chapter on "Butt Sliding".
I can find numerous articles on Glissading and various techniques and styles there are..sitting, standing etc.
Aside from glissading as a viable mode of travel as mentioned in Mountaineering..Freedom of the Hills...I thought since much of this thread is Adirondack oriented, I would mention an older book I"ve just stumbled across "Winter Hiking and Camping" published by the Adirondack Mountain Club Inc . First copyright 1972 and the copy I have 1982. I assume this is a time before mandatory snowshoe wearing, illegal postholing, and things like that. Though I don't know what years those laws went into effect..??
( I would be curious) I do think that historically, in that region, skis won out overall and various laws were enacted to ensure that way for years to come....??
Anyway,the chapter...Travel...page 120 there is a fine picture of someone glissading down a slope. Does the heart good...every time I come across a section smoothed out and maybe iced up a bit, that I might have to struggle up, I see etched in my mind the smile of those that glissaded on down and maybe if I try real hard the sound of the laughter and joy they had doing it...!!

I did read a few years back of someone coming from NY to hike the Whites and was so conscious of the postholing she actually filled in some of the post holes she made, if I remember the story correctly.. a very sweet thing to do, but of course in these parts it would have been such a strange sight to see!! Some of the nicest things of hiking is the diversity you find out there on the trails..........

rhihn
01-04-2004, 05:48 PM
a time before mandatory snowshoe wearing, illegal postholing, and things like that. Though I don't know what years those laws went into effect..??
( I would be curious) I do think that historically, in that region, skis won out overall and various laws were enacted to ensure that way for years to come....??


I am also curious...postholing, butt-sliding, snoeshoeing, snowmobiling, skiiing...is there a hierarchy at work here? Can people snowshoeing properly hike a snowmobile trail? A "designated" skii trail? Where ARE these trails? If I butt-slide down Feldspar Brook trail (I have done so), am I committing a sin? Personally I can't imagine anyone WANTING to posthole, as it is so much work. But what ARE the RULES? I have snowshoed on part of the Northville-Placid trail and have been chastised for doing do by skiiers. Were they correct in doing so, or did I have the right to snowshoe there? Or are the rules only "prevailing common practice"? "Common courtesy," and "common sense" yes, but how is this determined"? It seems to me that "conditions" would best dictate the proper method of travel (i.e., driving 65 mph, vs. driving "too fast for conditions"). Are there similar "rules" as to when or when not to use crampons? If not, why not? I'd like to do what's "right," but I'd like to be safe as well. I'm sure that if I rode a horse down the main street of my town, I'd get a ticket, and yet I'm equally sure that was the normal mode of travel at one time.

Can anyone help me with this?

Ann
01-04-2004, 05:57 PM
Great post Spider!!!!

And yippee, the joys of Glissading...

I see etched in my mind the smile of those that glissaded on down and maybe if I try real hard the sound of the laughter and joy they had doing it...!!
Yes indeed, those smiles could have been me.
I fondly still own a pair of Woolrich wool knickers, they are reinforced in the rear-end...perfect glissading ware!!!! I even have fond memories of my ENTIRE family glissading down Lions Head when I was in my teens. I have PERSONAL info that yes, that even many of us over the age of 40 find this a LOT OF FUN!!!

Please, for the sake of sanity, fun and all else that is sacred in the world of the woods...I hope some of the posters on this thread will not start a NY petition to ban Glissading!!!!!!

Live free and GLISSADE!!!!!!

Doc McPeak
01-04-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Ann

Please, for the sake of sanity, fun and all else that is sacred in the world of the woods...I hope some of the posters on this thread will not start a NY petition to ban Glissading!!!!!!

Live free and GLISSADE!!!!!!

Amen.

And this is one NYer who glissades any chance I get. If I struggle up it, I will glide down it. I also bareboot on occassion, but have shoes on my back when I do. I posthole once, the shoes go on.

As far as hiking up a glissade track, with my aggressive crampons, conquering a smooth track is better than breaking through deep powder any day of the week.

Pete_Hickey
01-04-2004, 06:23 PM
These coments really partain to flatish areas, not steep areas.

If an area is only used for skiing, two tracks develop. The presence of these tracks make it easier to ski. That's why ski areas set tracks.

Snowshoers walking on these tracks destroy them, messing up the skiiers nice trail. If possible, showshoers should not walk in these ski tracks. It only takes one snowshoer to mess up ski tracks.

Now, winter hiking/snowshoeing is a relatively new 'fad' (not the best word, but best I can come up with for now.) In the past, many trails in the adirondacks were mostly used by skiers.... or at least the PERCENTAGE of skiers was much higher. Ski tracks had a good chance of remaining.

This is no longer true. Skiers just don't have the conditions they used to have. Some are bitter.

Things change.

lumberzac
01-04-2004, 06:32 PM
I have to say nothing beats coming down a good slope on an unbroken trail. I just lean back on my tails and enjoy the ride. The only thing that I don't enjoy is the occasional snow up my back.

dug
01-05-2004, 11:50 AM
So, just checking....

In the ADKs, it's OK to trash the trail if you are sliding down it, but not if you are walking up it and post-holing?

Hmmm....Seems a bit arbitrary in the rules that are laid out.

OBTW, my original reply is just a joke and is meant to be somewhat argumentative. I glissade as well. Just curious why some rules are OK and some aren't.

Grumpy
01-05-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by dug
Just curious why some rules are OK and some aren't.
Politics.

Politics.

Politics.

Unmitigated by common sense.

G. :p

leduc
01-05-2004, 08:46 PM
On a hard packed and icy trail, I see no problem barebooting, makes sense.

If you posthole, then when it freezes, it leaves holes in the trail for a very long time, then I agree with Pin-Pin: wear snowshoes, this is not a matter of opinion, wear snowshoes, period.

So my rule is:
A) if you create hole of more than 1 in deep: snowshoes or not, this is okay
B) if you create holes more than 1 in deep, then snowshoes, and if it slows you down, please choose a shorter hike.

In powder snow, this is lerss critical. But in wet snow when any freezing would convert the trail to ice, again...

Please wear snowshoes. I gave the mandate to my friend Pin-Pin to patrol the trails and to use his "pin" to punish violators. (See avatar for a better explanation)...

I'm not as agressive and angry as my post may look like, and snowshoes are not yet a religion for me, but still, hikers please use judgement and wear snowshoes when appropriate.

Charles

use snowshoes.

miehoff
01-05-2004, 10:17 PM
Your avatar is painful! Is that what we get if we posthole? Ahhhhhh.....!!!!!!!

Pete_Hickey
01-06-2004, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by miehoff
Your avatar is painful! Is that what we get if we posthole? Ahhhhhh.....!!!!!!!

I think he must have replied to one of those SPAMs which we all erceive.. you know, those, "Increase your manhood" ones?

All goes to show... Never trust a spammer.

miehoff
01-06-2004, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Pete_Hickey


I think he must have replied to one of those SPAMs which we all erceive.. you know, those, "Increase your manhood" ones?

All goes to show... Never trust a spammer.

Would love to get that URL! I am in complete trust.

Mr. X
01-07-2004, 11:29 AM
Hey, it all goes back to the saying that you cannot legislate common sense. On another more interesting note, I heard that there is a group of people that purposely post-hole paths through our northeast mountains. The latest information released has linked them to an organization known as Al-Traila. Although the source of financing is still unknown the fact that fines are being paid off and the intentional slaughter of our trail systems condition is at risk around the globe remains. Apparently notes have been left behind in a scriptic Byblos that refers to the great satan and park services as the "Pharaoh of modern day times". Scary.

percious
01-07-2004, 11:30 AM
To be honest with you guys, i dont see what the big deal is. I mean, snow is a DYNAMIC thing. If you post hole, then it will just snow tomorrow, and change the whole trail. It's not damaging the trail, because the trail is going to change anyway. Its not like you are killing alpine vegetation or anything. And last time I checked, my snowshoes glided easily over sets of post-holes. So really, who cares?
My buddy and I were travelling into marcy dam last february, and some guy was yelling at us for hiking on the "x-country ski" trail. Seriously, he needed to get a life. The snow is for all of us to enjoy, and its going to change anyway, so as long as you arent doing permanent damage to the environment, post hole all you want.
Btw, I wear my snowshoes pretty much all the time, because I hate post holing. Oh, and sliding on your but is a must do for the winter. Should we also ban sliding down slides into pools of cool water in the summer?

-percious

Warren
01-07-2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by percious
To be honest with you guys, i dont see what the big deal is.

I'm not a skier (yet) but the gist seems to be it mucks up the skiing. In the high peaks, where skiing has a historic foothold, where there's a lot of various types of use, where long approaches mean anything that speeds you up makes more things possible it does make sense.

I do think a postholed trail will slow down a snowshoer, the trail isn't nice and smooth like it gets when it's under a good snowpack.

rhihn
01-07-2004, 07:45 PM
I'm not a skier (yet) but the gist seems to be it mucks up the skiing. In the high peaks, where skiing has a historic foothold, where there's a lot of various types of use, where long approaches mean anything that speeds you up makes more things possible it does make sense.

I do think a postholed trail will slow down a snowshoer, the trail isn't nice and smooth like it gets when it's under a good snowpack.

It also can ice over and melt, depending upon the weather. If I see ski tracks I will ALWAYS try to avoid them. But Percious made a good point that I brought up in an earlier post:

My buddy and I were travelling into marcy dam last february, and some guy was yelling at us for hiking on the "x-country ski" trail.

This same thing happened to me on the N/P trail once. Putting "politics" "common practice" and jerks aside, are there trails in the Adirondacks, flatish or otherwise, that are commonly hiked in the summer but are DESIGNATED FORMAL LEGAL x-c ski trails in the winter? In other words, are there winter trails where I, a non-skier, must avoid? If so, where is a list of these trails?

Pete_Hickey
01-07-2004, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by rhihn
In other words, are there winter trails where I, a non-skier, must avoid? If so, where is a list of these trails?

They aren't hiked in the summer, but there is the ski route up to Indian Falls and up into Avalanche Pass. There are also a number on the ADK land around the Loj. Even on the trail from the loj into Marcy dam, there are a few places where the ski route takes a slightly differrent path.

Then, the south meadows trail is prefered by skiers over the trail from the Loj.. It is wide enough that non-skiers should be able to not walk in the ski tracks, although many seem to like walking in them.

rhihn
01-07-2004, 09:15 PM
They aren't hiked in the summer, but there is the ski route up to Indian Falls and up into Avalanche Pass. There are also a number on the ADK land around the Loj. Even on the trail from the loj into Marcy dam, there are a few places where the ski route takes a slightly differrent path.

Thanks, Pete. I've seen the postings for these ski trails while hiking. They are marked as ski trails. If a sign says "ski trail" I'm not going to snowshoe on it, period. But my experience has been that marked ski trails are relatively rare (maybe I need to get out more). But what about trails such as the N/P trail, Calamity Brook trail, trail to Marcy Dam, or any of number of other relatively level trails, that are not marked as winter ski trails (to my knowledge)? Again, I do NOT walk in ski tracks, and I don't mean to belabor this, but are there COMMONLY HIKED SUMMER trails that LEGALLY become ski trails in the winter, though not marked as such, and where I should not snowshoe (ranger could ticket)?

Just trying to do the "right" thing.

ERL
01-07-2004, 11:12 PM
The answer to all this debate is simple... SKIS. skis never posthole and glide right over the ones that are already there and are much more fun to travel over snow with. you can travel nearly all the same terrain with skis as snowshoes and have more fun doing it. plus you get to whizz by all the snowshoers on their trudge down the moutain.


kick and glide

tonycc
01-08-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by ERL
The answer to all this debate is simple... SKIS. skis never posthole and glide right over the ones that are already there and are much more fun to travel over snow with. you can travel nearly all the same terrain with skis as snowshoes and have more fun doing it. plus you get to whizz by all the snowshoers on their trudge down the mountain.


kick and glide

and then the snowshoers can unwrap my broken and bloody body from around a tree...;)

The thought that people ski those trails amazes me.

Tony

ADackR
01-08-2004, 07:37 AM
Thanks, Pete. I've seen the postings for these ski trails while hiking. They are marked as ski trails. If a sign says "ski trail" I'm not going to snowshoe on it, period. But my experience has been that marked ski trails are relatively rare (maybe I need to get out more). But what about trails such as the N/P trail, Calamity Brook trail, trail to Marcy Dam, or any of number of other relatively level trails, that are not marked as winter ski trails (to my knowledge)? Again, I do NOT walk in ski tracks, and I don't mean to belabor this, but are there COMMONLY HIKED SUMMER trails that LEGALLY become ski trails in the winter, though not marked as such, and where I should not snowshoe (ranger could ticket)?

Just trying to do the "right" thing. [/QUOTE]

I think what you found on the NP trail is that some people just think they own the trails. I know for fact that in Piseco there are designated ski trails AT THE AIRPORT and then just up the trail the NP trail comes into play.

where were you when this happened. I know that I don't mind if there is a snow shoe track already laid out. It's almost better on the trails because there is a nice groomed track in place. For instance, the clamity brook trail into Flowed lands is my favorite trail to ski. I usualy hit that up 3-4 times a year...

Mark
01-08-2004, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by percious
To be honest with you guys, i dont see what the big deal is. I mean, snow is a DYNAMIC thing. If you post hole, then it will just snow tomorrow, and change the whole trail. It's not damaging the trail, because the trail is going to change anyway. Its not like you are killing alpine vegetation or anything. And last time I checked, my snowshoes glided easily over sets of post-holes. So really, who cares?
...
The snow is for all of us to enjoy, and its going to change anyway, so as long as you arent doing permanent damage to the environment, post hole all you want.
There may be no permanent damage, but post-holing damages the trail for anyone who hikes after you and could very well make the trail dangerous. Consider the following likely scenario: a hiker leaves a set of post-holes on a soft trail. Temperatures drop and it snows a few inches. Those post-holes are now pretty hard to see on the trail and as hard as concrete.

This happened to me coming down from the Hancocks last winter. I should have been able to bare boot on the hard trail. However, after falling into a hidden post-hole and almost breaking my lower leg, I had to put on snow shoes for the descent. Even then, if I stepped on a post-hole, the snow shoe slipped with nothing for the cleats to dig into.

Please be considerate to those who will follow you. If you are post-holing, switch to snow shoes or turn around.

Oh, and stay off designated cross country ski trails, or at least stay off the ski tracks as much as possible.

Grumpy
01-08-2004, 08:20 AM
Winter hiking would be great fun, were it not for some of the skiers you run into (or is it the other way around?)! :D

All in good fun, guys.

G. :p

DLhiker
01-08-2004, 03:19 PM
Hiking the Orebed trail and the Big Slide/Brothers this week (1/6,7) was both frustrating and dangerous b/c of hard iced deep postholes. 5-10 inches of new snow didn't help at all--only hid the most dangerous hole. BTW I'm not talking about an occasion boot print. In this case, every step was a hole of 4, 5, 6"!

It's common sense--wear snow shoes.

hikem'all
01-09-2004, 07:05 AM
What about those dogs on the trails? i don't know for sure but do they have comfortable snowshoes for dogs?

DeadFred
01-09-2004, 09:51 AM
In the Dak's one is REQUIRED to wear snowshoes or skis on trails if there 8" or more snow. Period.

Like most people here...I say use common sense and show respect for those that follow you. Remember, unless you're leaddog, you will always be following someone else, whether their tracks have been covered or not by new snow. Often new snow only covers a posthole and hides the real danger, esp if it's been hardend by freeze-thaw or wet snow into ice.

Now in regard to glissading...wooooo whooooo!!!

dug
01-09-2004, 12:43 PM
OK, once more for clarity...

By an overwhelming majority, it is not OK to trash a trail with your feet, but it is OK to trash a trail with your ass?

Got it.

DeadFred
01-09-2004, 03:32 PM
Hey dug,

I guess it depends how big an ass one has! :D

Seriously though, I personally have never been able to glissade on a ski trail; so glissading and skiing the same trail are more often mutually exclusive, ie: moot point. Now, on a steep snowshoe/crampon trail it usually has little effect on the trail conditions. Unlike postholes, I've never know anyone to fall into a "glissade hole" and twist their ankle.

So I guess, yes, in my "book of wrong" it's ok.

Hope this confuses things that much more!;) :D :( :mad: :confused: :eek:

(All in fun.)

Mark
01-10-2004, 10:44 AM
We need more trails like the Hancock loop in the Whites. When I hiked this last year, everyone was going up the trail to North Hancock and down the trail from South Hancock. Result: good steps kicked into the uphill trail and a nice, smooth, packed base for butt sliding on the way down.

Now, if you chose to do the summits in the other direction, I suppose you had a bad day.

dug
01-11-2004, 09:13 AM
Mark,
That's the exact trip where I noticed this a few year's ago. Walking up the North Peak was the easiest stretch of trail I've ever been on. It almost seemed like the trail was broken by a Boy Scout Troop, all working in unison.

In all seriousness, like I mentioned before, I do glissade and butt slide on occasion myself. It does just seem arbitrary how the "rules" are. Sometimes, I've noticed it almost seems somewhat dangerous to try to stop sliding and instead just letting your feet go.....