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arghman
10-12-2006, 04:33 PM
Looking for recommendations on low-probability-of-ice-on-ledges NH4Ks to hike w/ a friend in the next week or two before calling it quits for the year.

I have Stabilicers but don't like to tempt fate & make a brazen attempt at stupidity, so am looking for the least-likely-to-be-icy trails. (e.g. Welch/Dickey is probably off my radar until next May.)

Here's my guess (fairly sure of Tecumseh) but my memory can be faulty sometimes.

Cabot
Waumbek
Tecumseh
Galehead
Passaconaway
maybe Tom/Field?

edit: I meant I'm fairly sure of Waumbek. (see what I mean about my memory? :( )

Jim lombard
10-12-2006, 04:44 PM
Those are all good. Jackson is good, one little steep section at the end but not usually icy till November (easy to get around anyway.) Osceola from Tripoli would be another good choice. Great views on both.

Klutz
10-12-2006, 05:38 PM
What about the Kinsmans??? I hope not, we really want to do them this weekend and stay at the Kinsman Pond Shelter. :)

Raymond
10-13-2006, 01:05 AM
We climbed the Kinsmans at the end of September back in 2000 when there was fresh snow and ice up high. I don't recall any particular problems, and Susan was just wearing sneakers.

bikehikeskifish
10-13-2006, 07:53 AM
Which would be a less hazardous trip: Kinsmans or Lincoln+Lafayette? What about Garfield and/or Galehead?

If anyone does either this Saturday, please update this thread, or post in the trail conditions. I am in the same boat--originally planning on L+L, but if they are dangerous (to me and my 3-season hiking skills) I will avoid them. Due to family commitments, I can only go Sunday.

Thanks,
Tim

arghman
10-13-2006, 08:03 AM
Which would be a less hazardous trip: Kinsmans or Lincoln+Lafayette? What about Garfield and/or Galehead?Just speaking for myself, I would not do Lincoln+Lafayette where there is any significant ice risk. Too steep.

I can't remember the Kinsmans much, I think a few brief ledgy sections near N. Kinsman summit but am not sure.

FYI the ridge between Galehead and Garfield I found not very enjoyable under good conditions (lots of ups&downs) & the AT just east of Garfield is extremely steep, seepy and shaded -- a recipe for nasty ice conditions.

David Metsky
10-13-2006, 08:45 AM
The pinned steps and many stream crossings on Fishin' Jimmy can be a pain if icy. It's definately an easier approach from the west via the Mt Kinsman trail. There are a few ledges to navigate on the Kinsman Ridge trail below the summit of North Kinsman.

Garfield has some rock to climb right below the summit. It can be a bit nasty, but it's just a very short stretch. The trip down from Garfield to the shelter along the Garfield Ridge trail would be very annoying if icy.

Franconia Ridge is much more exposed than any of the other hikes you mentioned. There are steep slabby sections on the way up and down, plus along and across the waterfalls on Falling Waters.

If I had to rank them it would be Kinsmans from the west, Garfield, Kinsmans from the east, Franconia Ridge.

-dave-

bikehikeskifish
10-13-2006, 10:40 AM
Thanks for all the info.

The $64,000 question is: Will it be icy?

Maybe someone else will be there on Saturday and report...

Tim

Chip
10-13-2006, 11:29 AM
7am Sunday morning on Pierce near the summit the moss and mudd was frozen, you know - like permafrost, but the trail was fine. Definately no problem after full sunrise. I wouldn't hesitate to go up the Bridle Path for Lafayette and just back-track if the ridge seemed bad, Falling Waters is steep and tricky, almost regardless. This is the time of year any condition can happen. I'm willing to turn back and not complete my plans anytime, but especially this time of year.

DougPaul
10-13-2006, 11:34 AM
The $64,000 question is: Will it be icy?

Maybe someone else will be there on Saturday and report...
Conditions on Sunday can easily be different from those on Saturday.

Check
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/summit_forecast.php
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/skinh.php
and
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/valley_forecast.php

You can also get hourly condition reports for Mt Washington, Berlin, Whitefield, Laconia, and Frye from http://www.wunderground.com/. (Choose the location and click on "Detailed History and climate". The hourly reports plus some interpolation between locations can give you a good guess on conditions. For instance, if it is cold at night and warm during the day and the ground is likely to be damp (recent precip or melting snow), then you are likely to have ice in the morning, melting during the day.

The NWS forecasts can also be very useful: http://iwin.nws.noaa.gov/iwin/textversion/states.html. (General url: http://iwin.nws.noaa.gov.) At certain times of day, the NH forecast is for southern NH. Check the ME forecast to get the predictions for the White Mtn area.

And just be flexible on the mountain. If conditions look like they are/will be beyond your abilities and gear, turn around and do something else. The mountain will still be there for a long time.

Doug

arghman
10-13-2006, 05:18 PM
And just be flexible on the mountain. If conditions look like they are/will be beyond your abilities and gear, turn around and do something else. The mountain will still be there for a long time.that's a given. the question is which mountains do I have to be the least flexible on. :D

lx93
10-13-2006, 06:40 PM
Jason,

I do recall a nasty, steep, icy section between the Willey summitt & the Kedron Flume on my very first hike bagging 4k'ers in April 2005. Don't recall the trail name, though.

DougPaul
10-13-2006, 06:55 PM
I do recall a nasty, steep, icy section between the Willey summitt & the Kedron Flume on my very first hike bagging 4k'ers in April 2005. Don't recall the trail name, though.
The A-Z trail from Crawford Notch is more ice friendly--I've hiked it with ice in the morning and evening and mud in between...

Doug

jmegillon149
10-14-2006, 09:41 PM
the less exposed, the less ice is a good rule of thumb, so stay below treeline, should be fine

best bet is to monitor the trail conditions VERY well, and make last minute plans (at least in the "where" dept.). The Whites are a funny place, the area is bigger than it seems, so the weather and conditions really do vary by a LOT

have fun!

Mike P.
10-15-2006, 01:48 PM
Waumbek if icy really does not have any ledges & Stablicers would be more thanenough to tackle the trail with some ice. Ice high on the Frost trail might be interesting again your equipment should be fine.

Pierce via C-path would be okay, your gear would handle it. Some years after the 20th of October I've found no ice & snow, some years 3-6 inches of snow above 3500 feet. A couple of inches of snow possibly hiding ice is always possible. I'm looking at F-Ridge on 10/28, will likely bring crampons, likely won't need them but might as well get used to carrying them too.

bikehikeskifish
10-15-2006, 05:44 PM
Well, we did go up falling waters, over Franconia Ridge and down Greenleaf and Old Bridle Path. Yes, there was a bit of ice in spots, but entirely passable without breaking out the yak trax or stabilicers. No slips, slides, scrapes, etc. Ice was confined to a few short stretches near the summit, just below the tree line.

Tim

sierra
10-16-2006, 01:45 PM
Flume and Liberty via the osseo would almost definetly be ice free, just watch the steps near the downlook on Flume. Franconia ridge is going to be icy if anything is.

jjmcgo
10-17-2006, 09:22 AM
I'm planning a Garfield Trail hike for Nov. 11 with 14-year-old grandson and 9-year-old granddaughter, both seemingly tireless walkers. We're only planning on going to the ridge shelter and back.
Would you expect ice on this trail then?

arghman
10-17-2006, 12:30 PM
I'm planning a Garfield Trail hike for Nov. 11 with 14-year-old grandson and 9-year-old granddaughter, both seemingly tireless walkers. We're only planning on going to the ridge shelter and back.
Would you expect ice on this trail then?if Garfield Trail = from Rt 3 to Garfield, and the shelter you speak of is east of Mt Garfield on the AT towards Galehead Mtn, I would avoid it like the plague as slippery steep ice is a near-certainty. (see my previous post above)

sapblatt
10-17-2006, 02:26 PM
if Garfield Trail = from Rt 3 to Garfield, and the shelter you speak of is east of Mt Garfield on the AT towards Galehead Mtn, I would avoid it like the plague as slippery steep ice is a near-certainty. (see my previous post above)
I second Jasons post - real pain in the a** stretch of trail when it is dry...with ice it would take a real long time. The section above the junction is doable with Stabilicers - no big deal.
FWIW - i did Garfield last October 20...there was snow and ice above 3000' - not a ton, but some. We did put the Stabilicers on above the junction with the GRT and we were fine.

arghman
10-17-2006, 04:31 PM
I would avoid it like the plague as slippery steep ice is a near-certainty. (see my previous post above)
clarification: I am referring to the section of AT between Mt Garfield and the shelter. I have been there but have not taken the Garfield Trail from Rt. 3 so cannot comment on that.

Raymond
10-17-2006, 05:06 PM
A stream crossing that you wouldn’t think twice about in the summer could be hazardous if icy.

DougPaul
10-17-2006, 05:41 PM
A stream crossing that you wouldn’t think twice about in the summer could be hazardous if icy.
Or easier if the ice is thick enough to walk on...

But usually harder during these transition seasons. Watch out for a thin coating of ice on the rocks which are above water. Frequently the rocks which are just below the water surface (ie no ice) are the best.

Doug

jjmcgo
10-17-2006, 07:29 PM
I was thinking of the Garfield Trail because of the long, slow incline rather than steep sections on other trails. But the Garfield Ridge Trail sounds too icy.
Are there views into the Pemi near the junction of the two trails?