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wintermtnman
01-21-2004, 06:51 AM
Frankly I am disappointed that the moderator pulled the thread on hiking with a side-arm. It presented a very real topic that is obviously related to hiking, camping and general backcountry travel. There are many hazards we encounter in the woods, and many of those hazards are just as remote as the need for side-arm, but we often carry the extra weight or take special pre-cautions just-in-case. Carrying a side-arm is just one of those choices.

I do think it was refreshing to see a real question presented on this site rather than topics debating stupid people, or if someone should hike when it's cold, or camp when it's cold, etc...you get the drift...

Some of the posts may have been a little testy, but that's life; it's full of differing points of view and sometimes stuff you don't like. It would seem that the moderator of the forum was against side-arms because there wasn't really good reason to pull the thread. And again I say, it was directly related to the sport of backcountry travel.

So with that said, go back to writing about the cold and stupid people and all the regulars can chime in and stroke each other's egos and use this forum for amateur journalism.

NYBRAD
01-21-2004, 07:06 AM
There are many hazards we encounter in the woods, and many of those hazards are just as remote as the need for side-arm, but we often carry the extra weight or take special pre-cautions just-in-case. Carrying a side-arm is just one of those choices.

I'm a gun owner/collector, and I don't see a reason why I would need one hiking in the backcountry of the NE. In fact, when would it have saved anyone hiking in the NE?
I just don't see the connection between hiking in the NE, and firearms?

If you don't like the site, don't visit it.

CaNoE_MaN
01-21-2004, 08:21 AM
If you want a site where things are a little more liberal where you can go off topic more check out This Website (www.adkforum.com)

VFTT is a great site with knowledgeble people!

maineguy
01-21-2004, 08:25 AM
To those who cannot ever see the reason why someone would carry a firearm while hiking...I hope you never emerge from the trail and find someone or a group vandalizing or breaking into your vehicle. Let's say the Garfield Trail trailhead, miles from the highway. Better hope they have the same disdain for firearms and violence that you have.

WalksWithBlackflies
01-21-2004, 09:29 AM
I gotta agree with Wintermtnman that the "Handguns in NH" appeared to be "on topic"... and this is from the thread-starter of "Stupid People" ;) FYI Wintermtnman, I started the Stupid People thread as a forum for people to discuss memorable moments on the trail related to a recent experience I had. Judging from the # of views and responses, it seems that other people also like to read/share such experiences, even if it isn't a "serious" topic (sorry if it sounds like I'm flaming you, I'm not).

I posted a reply to the "Handguns in NH" thread and read at least the first couple of pages. The problem with these types of threads is that they always end up being political. The thread-starter posted a valid question, and the first few responses were civil... but all it takes is one person to take an extreme view on one side of the issue. Someone on the other side inevitably (sp?) takes issue with the comment, and it snowballs downhill from there. I've been to other forums with similar threads, and pretty soon the Gun-Obsessed Neo-Nazi Murders are squaring off against the Pot-Smoking PETA Terrorists. I didn't read the last couple of pages on the subject thread... so I don't know if it was removed for this or a similar reason.

To reiterate, I think the thread at least started as a legitimate topic... the real shame is that some people can't leave their politics at home and off the trail (including this and other trail-related sites).

sbeausol
01-21-2004, 09:34 AM
The point everyone here seems to be missing is that firearms and traveling in the backcountry is more relevent to this site (hiking that is) than most posts you see in Q & A. It is a REALITY. Why can't there be a discussion about it? Maybe it will persuade someone in one direction or the other.

The post certainly has a place here.... more so than half the other posts in Q & A. Remember, this forum is dedicated to backcountry pursuits in the Northeast U.S..

I understand the need to keep things civil etc, but come on.... don't you have to be older than 18 to register for this site to begin with.

So lets discuss it eh?

maineguy
01-21-2004, 09:36 AM
Rico, good point. But, in this case, there did not really seem to be any politics or flames. Somebody (plural??) complained to the Moderator and it eventually got yanked, as this one probably will.

Here's an example of how "sensitive" some posters are. Remember Mr X's avatar (Michael Jackson). Well, there were complaints supposedly and he had to change it. Now, whatever you think of Jackson, he is certainly in the public domain and his picture appears everywhere. How on earth can it be deemed objectionable??

Zarathustra
01-21-2004, 09:50 AM
I agree with wintermtnman, rico and sbeausol. This thread is relevant. This thread is part of the marketplace of ideas, and this thread get off track ONLY when people fail to address a previous post accurately. It's the all too common practice of not listening (comprehending) what the previous speaker is saying, but rather, just waiting for their chance to talk. In that case the repondent is not replying,they're issuing statement. Such statements are what lead to the radical positions like those recalled by rico.

Zarathustra
01-21-2004, 10:00 AM
I agree with wintermtnman, rico and sbeausol. This thread is relevant. This thread is part of the marketplace of ideas, and this thread get off track ONLY when people fail to address a previous post accurately. It's the all too common practice of not listening (comprehending) what the previous speaker is saying, but rather, just waiting for their chance to talk. In that case the repondent is not replying,they're issuing statement. Such statements are what lead to the radical positions like those recalled by rico.

Zarathustra
01-21-2004, 10:03 AM
Didn't mean to post that twice, hit the back button and...

kjbjette
01-21-2004, 10:11 AM
Firearms in the backcountry was my first thread as a member here at vfft, and i was a little dissappointed (<-spelling) to see that it was pulled. I didn't realize I couldn't talk about guns while HIKING, and if that is the case, i hope not to see any topics on carrying or using objects while hiking/backpacking/peakbagging, whatever you want to call it. Do you see where I'm going with this?

mavs00
01-21-2004, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by maineguy
To those who cannot ever see the reason why someone would carry a firearm while hiking...I hope you never emerge from the trail and find someone or a group vandalizing or breaking into your vehicle. Let's say the Garfield Trail trailhead, miles from the highway. Better hope they have the same disdain for firearms and violence that you have.

Hey, nobody told me Ted Nugent joined VFTT. Welcome Ted :) .






***For the humorless...........I'M KIDDING***

Peakbagr
01-21-2004, 10:31 AM
Thanks for the support Alpine...your usual dose of common sense is appreciated.

Its really a drag to be seen as a censor when its exactly the opposite of how I want to serve as a volunteer. I try and stay up on whats happening here, usually at the expense of sleep time and too often from either my office or on the road.
The threads were deleted because they were off-topic and wasting bandwidth. The tone was also such that they really weren't contributing to anything but divisiveness in our small world.
If Darren had seen them, I'm pretty sure they would have been gone much quicker. Its irrelevant that we received so many private complaints, the threads should have been deleted earlier. Its just that I was hoping they'd take a turn for the better.

Warren
01-21-2004, 07:07 PM
"Its really a drag to be seen as a censor when its exactly the opposite of how I want to serve as a volunteer."

Oh man, you are neither. Sorry to say, but you're a Moderator. You have to read the Masters mind, the user and community minds, trying to track an all to gray line that shouldn't be crossed, not wanting to insult those possibly new to on line etiquette, having to deal with the possibly hostile, and a sometimes low respect for your authority because you Moderate and not Master. Afterwards they may need some help with a cookie or an avatar issue. Oh, and you have to keep up with the board.

To top it off, The Master is a Good Master, there are few hard set rules. Most of the time it's a judgment call, users, new and old, involved and not involved, active and inactive in the community are going to have their own opinions and ideas on the matter. This is a flexible board when it comes down to it, it's just moderated. Even more importantly it's well moderated. But that lack of a whole lot of hard set rules sometimes makes the call all the more difficult.

Folks, there are "death topics" on boards that spiral from discussion to discourse to complete doo doo. They are emotionally charged and often laced with lists of strong beliefs that may not have anything to do with a forums focus. Respecting a Moderators call on this is a basic etiquette.

Of the crazy-huge amount of lists and boards I follow, VFTT is in the top 2 of the most useful- the other being a very structured technical mailing list. VFTT still manages to be informal, social and way informative.

Besides, there's a buddy feature, you can take any topic off-forum and pm in small groups.

R. Killjoy
01-25-2004, 08:03 AM
our moderators are quite moderate and don't post oceans of bombast

True, the VFTT members have that base covered for them.

Is it really necessary to use this thread to insult another forum and moderator in the best spirit of a "Ford vs. Chevy" argument between two rednecks?:confused:

funkyfreddy
01-25-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by R. Killjoy
Is it really necessary to use this thread to insult another forum and moderator.....:confused:

Sorry, You guys are right and I was wrong. That was a cheap shot I fired off yesterday and I deleted my post. There was some stuff going on over there during New Years that bothered me but as Warren says it's probably better to PM instead. I'll try and use a little more discretion in the future.
Thanks, Fred