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Whiteman
05-03-2009, 09:10 AM
I am going to call this the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time. An architect has a plan to restore the edifice of the Old Man of the Mountain with a steel and glass structure, complete with interior catwalk and a waterfall "from diverted rainwater." Wow. Get the details from the Boston Globe story today: A New Age Vision for the Old Man (http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2009/05/03/a_new_age_vision_for_the_old_man/)

slevasse
05-03-2009, 09:25 AM
Kind of thought we had heard the end of them trying to "restore" the old man shortly after it fell. I remember it had been suggested and people were really against the idea.

gaiagirl
05-03-2009, 09:28 AM
Something like this plan came up soon after the rock face fell, but I thought it had been shot down as rubbish immediately. Hard to understand why some humans just can't leave things in the natural world as they are and somehow think that we can fabricate and improve upon the natural order of things. Sigh .....

Tim Seaver
05-03-2009, 10:04 AM
What do you think the odds are of the flinty citizens of NH letting some fancy-pants intellectual from New Joisy ( with a summer home, no less) stick a garish monument to his own ego on their mountain? (Outside of the people who would benefit from it financially, of course)

I am guessing this goes nowhere.

TDawg
05-03-2009, 10:35 AM
The last quote pretty much sums it up for me...

"We always took pride in it being a natural wonder," said Jill Roy, who runs the gift shop at the Tramway. Anything else on the cliff, she mused, "would just take away from that."

Yea, lets spend millions on something that's probably gonna fall back down in a few years, great idea. I'm sure it wouldn't be a big fat lawsuit for the state when it takes people inside it down with it. Figures this originated in New Jersey. Walkway and a waterfall? Come on. I'm with Tim, this is going nowhere. At least I hope so!

Waumbek
05-03-2009, 10:47 AM
Never happen. Forget it. Even the fancy-pants interllectuals from New Hampsha won't buy it. Especially the fancy-pants interllectuals from New Hampsha. Ask Justice Souter.

Bobby
05-03-2009, 11:29 AM
The Old Man stood sentinel over the Notch for many years. His work is finished, let him rest in peace.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2116/84/110/523928481/n523928481_1262644_6242.jpg

RickB.
05-03-2009, 11:50 AM
It's not remotely practicable. The days of man's delusion that he can manipulate nature are passing and a competent site assessment would rule it out, anyway.

roadtripper
05-03-2009, 01:14 PM
When ideas like this come around, I find the sudden urge to read the Monkey Wrench Gang :rolleyes:

the_swede
05-03-2009, 01:46 PM
Friggen fancy pants intellectual from Joisey! Why doesn't he just go back home and mess around with his own thousands (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/2808998301_ee7c807458.jpg) of (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2743561258_e769718706.jpg) square (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/2644559574_ef611a516e.jpg) miles (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2324/2348145543_39dcf3d29e.jpg) of (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2102/2348978250_9cd7c6c4e0.jpg) protected (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2095/2207094419_c25533c6f7.jpg) forests (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2013/1797693172_a753c362b0.jpg), swamps (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2341/2348145903_77109c26b3.jpg) and (http://nj1k.org/images/tr/big/204.jpg) wilderness (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2113/2069643751_3198c607cf.jpg) areas (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/1994536907_b5221c13b3.jpg)!

Barkingcat
05-03-2009, 04:03 PM
The last quote pretty much sums it up for me...

"We always took pride in it being a natural wonder," said Jill Roy, who runs the gift shop at the Tramway. Anything else on the cliff, she mused, "would just take away from that."

I totally agree.

And, if some sort of memorial is to be built, I like the one proposed by Maggie Stier of the Old Man of the Mountain Legacy Fund -- simple and not freakishly outlandish like the Francis Treves proposed design.

(I know Stier -- she works for the New Hampshire Preservation Alliance and the National Trust for Historic Preservation -- and is a good egg.)

Tim Seaver
05-03-2009, 04:13 PM
Juror Comments (http://www.aianh.org/design_awards.asp): This is a very interesting, creative concept—a thoroughly investigated and carefully designed intellectual piece. The idea of putting people inside the structure to look out is original and deals with what the stone face is now... in people’s memory. It is not trying to put the past back, but helps one understand it. We are not in a position to, nor do we want to, comment on its appropriateness as a real project, but the idea represents a new way of thinking and helps to continue the dialogue about memorializing the site. This is a clear, iconic, strong presentation and very well drawn.


There are a few pictures of models of the project on the page, about 1/2 way down.

grouseking
05-03-2009, 04:26 PM
Creative project...stupid idea.

They should make a miniature version of that and put it in some museum. I would def go and see that.

grouseking

bikehikeskifish
05-03-2009, 05:26 PM
The Leisure section of the M.U.L. had a photo-ID question today which was (obviously) the former Old Man site. Even my kids, who never met the Old Man knew it.

Tim

Tom Rankin
05-03-2009, 05:49 PM
RIP.

Move on.

This is almost as bad as some huckster saying, "I can contact your dead relative".

ColdRiverRun
05-03-2009, 06:15 PM
Hey, if it keeps more of the citiots away from the ridges I might be for it.;)

Fisher Cat
05-03-2009, 08:03 PM
Maybe a smaller project to start...how about a giant styrofoam boulder,like a movie prop, and we can jam it in the Flume where the original one was washed out?:D

I know there's other pics out there, but here's the general idea:

http://whitemountainart.com/OnePageImages/flume_jfk_105.htm

Just think though, with the passing of time, someone, somewhere out there will be the last living person to have seen the OM with their own two eyes. Just like the oldest living confederate widow.

Gris
05-03-2009, 09:30 PM
When ideas like this come around, I find the sudden urge to read the Monkey Wrench Gang :rolleyes:

.............................

The Hikers
05-04-2009, 05:55 AM
Would this be the world's largest and most expensive facelift?

Puck
05-04-2009, 08:54 AM
fancy-pants intellectual from New Joisy

In defense of our flatlander friends...I know of two individuals from New Jersey that have transplanted themselves to New Hampshire. One is a published writter and knows more than anybody (no hyperbole) about the White Mountains known by most VFTTers. The other is a scientist and devotes much of her time to conservation in the area.

Also, as pointed New Jersey has a lot of its own natrual beauty. (even though my wife doesn't live there anymore)

Tim Seaver
05-04-2009, 09:16 AM
Being a transplant from Wisconsin, I have nothing against "flatlanders" or NJ folks. Or "intellectuals", even (unless they refer to themselves as such, then all bets are off). My description was meant to be a caricature of how the stereotypical, hypothetical "flinty" NH old-timers might likely view an out-of-stater sticking a big old glass jewel up on yonder cliff so the city folk will keep-a-comin' and buying ice cream.

A basket of stereotypes for the price of one - a real bargain! :D

Chip
05-04-2009, 10:30 AM
I remember the first time I saw it as a kid and thinking "neat". I enjoy knowing now where it was and being able to point that area out to my wife and kids...but...Was it ever a destination in and of itself ? What do they really think the "demand" for a memorial would be ? 5 million (minimum probably) seems like a lot of money for something that may not draw ANY traffic. I wish it were still there, but now that it's gone, it's kind of over, isn't it ?

DougPaul
05-04-2009, 11:20 AM
Was it ever a destination in and of itself ?
Well, a number of rock climbing routes finished up the inside corner that defined its left side...

It was a tottering heap of loose rock when I climbed it in the late '70s and early '80s. There were heavy cables attached to 2-3 inch diameter bolts attempting to secure some of the loose blocks on top. (These cables are visible in the "just after" photos.) There was also a sluiceway behind it to channel water away from it.

IMO, just let the mountain be. Erosion is a fact of life.

Doug

Christa
05-04-2009, 11:28 AM
Two thoughts:

1. A 45 foot glass structure in the middle of all that rock. Why does that not sound like a good idea? How long will it take before someone figures out a way to launch a rock at it? (stones and glass houses and all). I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it when that came showering down.

2. This reminds me of the "walkway" they built over the Grand Canyon. I know, it's a different comparison, but I personally don't like that one, either. Kind of ruins the whole nature thing for me.

--M.
05-04-2009, 02:20 PM
Erosion is a fact of life.

DP, you finally made an engineering error: I believe that this sentence accurately describes processes of neither life nor erosion. If you had averred that "Erosion is a fact of geology," or perhaps "Sagging is a fact of life," then we'd agree, but anything more is anthropomorphism (of the lowest type)!

Also, I've always liked the two-birds-with-one-stone effect of using one state to abuse another. I recently heard that "Vermont is the Mississippi of the north." Perhaps we could come up with one about the New Jerseyite who moves to New Hampsha. It should probably include a refinery with limited taxation.

For what it's worth, I too support not supporting new schtuff up there. Let it be.

Chip
05-04-2009, 02:22 PM
Well, a number of rock climbing routes finished up the inside corner that defined its left side...


Doug
that's cool. I meant generally, though, like was it a destination where people went specifically to see the Old Man, or was it more of a Drive-By type attraction. I'm guessing any Destination type memorial would be poorly attended.

NewHampshire
05-04-2009, 04:57 PM
Hey, I say go for it! And why stop there! Lets improve on things even more....maybe give him some arms, maybe legs, set him up in a nice tuxedo....heck why not go all out and build an "Old Woman" just across the way over on Eagle Cliff!? Rip up that wonderful falcon nesting area and slap on a nice glass bust (pun intended! :D).

Ok, enough with the sarcasm on my part, the truth is that it really is a stupid idea. Christa kind of alluded to my thinking, but I was more of a mind thinking that putting a large glass structure on unstable rock cliffs does not exactly sound smart. And what would it take TO make it stable? Tons of concrete? Wires? Pulleys? It was bad enough the Old Man was being held together this way near the end, and it shows how desperate man is to try and cheat nature. But in the end nature always wins.

Nature 1, humankind 0 (ok, thats not really accurate....nature has been kicking our ass for a long time and though humans may occasionally deny her a win she vastly outnumbers us in the odds department ;))

Brian

WhiteMTHike
05-05-2009, 09:18 AM
Talk about trying to turn the Whites into Disney World. Screw that! There is enough commercialism in the WMNF, no more is needed. The Old Man is (sadly) gone, let him RIP, do not do anything to ruin or exploit the cherished memories that most of us have of him.

Jim lombard
05-05-2009, 03:10 PM
There will only ever be one Old Man
http://www.onchristspath.com/oldman.jpg

rup
05-05-2009, 06:15 PM
The old Old Man couldn't be maintained over the long run, so how do 'they' expect to do so for a new one??? Steel and glass in the scree pile would be a real mess.

Taconic
05-05-2009, 07:26 PM
If that abomination actually gets built, I'm pretty sure I'll have to stay out of Franconia Notch. It's just an awful idea... both aesthetically and conceptually.

David Metsky
05-05-2009, 09:35 PM
Guys, this is never going to get built. It's not even a serious proposal. The committee in charge is already moving ahead with their design, which is five blocks of granite on the ground along the lake that line up to recreate the Old Man when viewed from the right place. It's just an interesting design being publicized by the press because it sells papers.

lattinhill
05-06-2009, 10:37 AM
Amen to that , I always liked the idea of the inline granite blocks . That's something that could be done in a small space with existing material , maybe even made from actual pieces of the " Old Man " .

Dave

Little Rickie
05-06-2009, 03:04 PM
[QUOTE=David Metsky;275154 It's just an interesting design being publicized by the press because it sells papers.[/QUOTE]

and they wonder why newspaper readership is dropping off.

jniehof
05-12-2009, 08:23 AM
Well, the architect has not been pleased by the response, but figures it's just because we all haven't understood the full glory of his complete plan (http://www.townsandtrails.com/replacing-the-old-man-of-the-mountain-revisited-with-information-from-the-architect/).

Understanding that he wants to blast a giant hole through a crumbling mountain doesn't convince me. I'm reminded of Gene's comment on the Redington wind farm: "If you liked what they did to Jay Peak, you're going to love this one!"

roadtripper
05-12-2009, 09:58 AM
Well, the architect has not been pleased by the response, but figures it's just because we all haven't understood the full glory of his complete plan (http://www.townsandtrails.com/replacing-the-old-man-of-the-mountain-revisited-with-information-from-the-architect/).

Understanding that he wants to blast a giant hole through a crumbling mountain doesn't convince me. I'm reminded of Gene's comment on the Redington wind farm: "If you liked what they did to Jay Peak, you're going to love this one!"

I love how that article states that the project is "misunderstood". Before that architect promotes this idea any further, I think he should spend a week in that area hiking, camping, kayaking, fishing, etc. Then he'd think the idea is just as absurd as most people know it is.