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jniehof
12-12-2010, 11:26 AM
I found the previous discussion on google, but apparently the thread's been killed, so I couldn't actually find it here.

Anyhow, I think I have a reasonable process for taking the WMNF trail data to GPX. Anybody going somewhere this weekend with a GPS and have a trail they'd like? I want to make sure it works before posting the procedure.

MichaelJ
12-12-2010, 11:47 AM
This thread was the only one I could fine, and that's pdf maps, not gis information. That was in thread 33174. If that whole thread got killed, I expect a public response as to why, as that was useful, valuable information.

Such as the link to the official WMNF GIS data (http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/projects/forest_plan_revision/maps_data.html).

cchikes
12-13-2010, 06:37 PM
My friend Chris has converted the USDA Forest Service 2008 trails Shapefile layer into GPX files and loaded them onto an ftp site for VFTT use. A few notes from Chris on the conversion:

================================================== =

A few notes on this data...

* There are 396 trails listed in the database. They have been convert into an equal number of individual GPX files plus an extra GPX file which contains
them all in one file ("00 - AllTrails.gpx"). There is also a compressed ZIP file ("00 - AllTrails.zip) which can be used to download all GPX files at once.

* The original coordinate system was "New Hampshire State Plane, NAD83, Feet". Coordinates have been converted to "Geographic, WGS84, Decimal degrees".

* There are two trails called "Square Ledge Trail". The GPX files have been renamed to add (Passaconaway) and (Pinkham) to distinguish them.

* The GPX files were named using the original database name. No attempt was made to correct misspellings (and there are a bunch of them).

* The trail data quality seems to fall into two categories, those trails that have had new data collected and those trails that were digitized off of the
USGS topo maps. You can usually tell them apart by looking at how smooth the trail data is when plotted. The trails that look particularly smooth have
been digitized off of the paper and are not to be trusted at all. The new data is as good as the data I have collected myself with a fairly good GPS.

* Although MyTopo.com was kind enough to provide me with the Terrain Professional conversion software and host the data on their ftp site, they are not responsible
for the data and should not be contacted in regards to it.

* Feel free to share the ftp link but if you do, please copy the notes when you share the link.

* It is probably best to keep the number of online versions of this data to a minimum so it can be updated and fixed as is required.

* If you need to get in touch with me in regards to this data, you can reach me through my GMail.com account. The account name is "HikesNH".

* ALTHOUGH EVERY ATTEMPT HAS BEEN MADE TO CONVERT THE DATA PROPERLY, IT IS OF UNKNOWN QUALITY AND SOME OF IT IS KNOWN TO BE BAD. MAKE SURE
YOU HAVE BACKUP MEANS OF NAVIGATION AND KNOW HOW TO USE THEM. USE THIS DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK.


Link: ftp://ftp.mytopo.com/nhtrails


================================================== =

Chris
Dec 10, 2010

DougPaul
12-13-2010, 07:35 PM
You and Chris must be from the crew that we met on Mt Tremont summit on Sunday, Nov 21. (Chris and I discussed these data while there.)

Thank you for posting these data.


BTW, I counted 20 switchbacks in my GPS track... :)

Doug

Mohamed Ellozy
12-13-2010, 07:36 PM
Given the .gpx files it is possibe to make a transparent Garmin-compatible map using GPSMapEdit and cGPSMapper. Of the many sets of instructions I have found these the most helpful: Garmin Map Making Quickstart Guide (http://www.gpssledmaps.com/guide/quick_map.php).

And let us hope that this thread does not disappear mysteriously like the original one :eek:

spider solo
12-14-2010, 06:01 AM
I'm guessing the the original thread was cancelled because of the possibility giving out info on bootleg trails, or creating bootleg trails... then again perhaps it was completely unrelated.

DSettahr
12-14-2010, 06:48 AM
I'm guessing the the original thread was cancelled because of the possibility giving out info on bootleg trails, or creating bootleg trails... then again perhaps it was completely unrelated.

This is why sharing of GPS tracks for bushwhacks is against the rules on ADK Forum.

MichaelJ
12-14-2010, 08:05 AM
This discussion, as that one was, is about GIS information provided to the public by the USFS. I highly doubt any bootleg trails would be in that dataset. The entire thread had no justification for being mass-deleted, especially without any explanation to the people who had posted and contributed to it.

That's why we're basically recreating it here. :)

I pulled down the GPX files (thank you SO much) and plan to poke through them to see how they came out. Despite having a plethora of computational resources at my disposal, I don't have the software to have done these conversions myself.

The main thing I want to see is where the old roads and snowmobile routes are for some exploring. Plus, it's really fun to see all the lines on Google Earth. :)

Fuzzy
12-14-2010, 03:07 PM
I downloaded the zip file, and tried to open the "00 - AllTrails.gpx" file. It would not load (MapSource). I opened the file in a text editor, and found that the file was missing a "</gpx>" at the end of the file. I added that, and it loaded.

I mention this just in case anybody else has the same problem.

I will compare some of these routes with ones I have recorded personally. Should be fun.

Thanks to Chris for all the hard work.

Will
12-15-2010, 03:59 AM
If that whole thread got killed, I expect a public response as to why, as that was useful, valuable information.The thread mentioned published GPS coordinates. Published GPS coordinates have the potential to encourage people to step off of corridor trails. The result would be chaos.

MichaelJ
12-15-2010, 06:13 AM
The thread mentioned published GPS coordinates. Published GPS coordinates have the potential to encourage people to step off of corridor trails. The result would be chaos.

Bwahahaha! I haven't laughed that hard in a while. :)

I have the whole thread onscreen right now from Google cache. I should repost it, except that most of the information from it has already been recreated, except for one valuable note from cushetunk that if using the DNR Garmin program on this data:


*BEFORE* you load the shapefile, go to File --> Set Projection. Where is says EPSG, ESRI, or ArcMAP near the top, switch it from EPSG to ESRI. Then select:

NAD_1983_StatePlane_New_Hampshire_FIPS_2800_Feet

from the drop down menu.

Now load the file, then save it to a KML. Voila!

DougPaul
12-16-2010, 09:52 AM
I downloaded the zip file, and tried to open the "00 - AllTrails.gpx" file. It would not load (MapSource). I opened the file in a text editor, and found that the file was missing a "</gpx>" at the end of the file. I added that, and it loaded.
Chris has informed me that he has fixed the file. (The fix is exactly what Fuzzy found.)

Doug

Jason Berard
12-17-2010, 10:25 AM
Chris has informed me that he has fixed the file. (The fix is exactly what Fuzzy found.)

Doug

I'm still having trouble...but then I am not the most tech-savvy person in the world....:o

Kevin Rooney
12-17-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm still having trouble...but then I am not the most tech-savvy person in the world....:o

Jason - try opening the AllTrails.gpx file with WordPad (assuming you're a Windows user) and add "</gpx>" to the very end of the file (don't include the ""). Then save the file (make sure it ends up in the same directory MapSource will look), and reload it in MapSource.

If that doesn't work, download it again. I believe Chris has added the "</gpx>" to the end of file.

DougPaul
12-17-2010, 11:59 AM
If that doesn't work, download it again. I believe Chris has added the "</gpx>" to the end of file.
Just download a new copy of 00_-_AllTrails.gpx. It has been fixed.
(The date on the old files is Nov 23, the date on the new files is Dec 14.)

FWIW, I followed Fuzzy's instructions (edit in a final "</gpx>") and MapSource accepted the result. When I downloaded Chris's fixed version it was exactly the same as my edited version.

Doug

Kevin Rooney
12-17-2010, 12:06 PM
Same here, Doug.

Followed Fuzzy's tip (thanks) it worked just as advertised.

DougPaul
12-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Same here, Doug.
Except that I had to manually add the ^M due to my Linux environment... :)

Doug


Explanation for non-computer geeks: This has to do with different text-file conventions in Microsoft and Unix (including Linux) environments.

Bombadil
01-21-2011, 12:41 AM
Works like a charm. Thanks guys!

Becca M
02-25-2011, 06:04 AM
Hate to revive this note, but.... I couldn't get the link at the end to work. Does anybody have a link that might work? THANKS!!!!


My friend Chris has converted the USDA Forest Service 2008 trails Shapefile layer into GPX files and loaded them onto an ftp site for VFTT use. A few notes from Chris on the conversion:

================================================== =

A few notes on this data...

* There are 396 trails listed in the database. They have been convert into an equal number of individual GPX files plus an extra GPX file which contains
them all in one file ("00 - AllTrails.gpx"). There is also a compressed ZIP file ("00 - AllTrails.zip) which can be used to download all GPX files at once.

* The original coordinate system was "New Hampshire State Plane, NAD83, Feet". Coordinates have been converted to "Geographic, WGS84, Decimal degrees".

* There are two trails called "Square Ledge Trail". The GPX files have been renamed to add (Passaconaway) and (Pinkham) to distinguish them.

* The GPX files were named using the original database name. No attempt was made to correct misspellings (and there are a bunch of them).

* The trail data quality seems to fall into two categories, those trails that have had new data collected and those trails that were digitized off of the
USGS topo maps. You can usually tell them apart by looking at how smooth the trail data is when plotted. The trails that look particularly smooth have
been digitized off of the paper and are not to be trusted at all. The new data is as good as the data I have collected myself with a fairly good GPS.

* Although MyTopo.com was kind enough to provide me with the Terrain Professional conversion software and host the data on their ftp site, they are not responsible
for the data and should not be contacted in regards to it.

* Feel free to share the ftp link but if you do, please copy the notes when you share the link.

* It is probably best to keep the number of online versions of this data to a minimum so it can be updated and fixed as is required.

* If you need to get in touch with me in regards to this data, you can reach me through my GMail.com account. The account name is "HikesNH".

* ALTHOUGH EVERY ATTEMPT HAS BEEN MADE TO CONVERT THE DATA PROPERLY, IT IS OF UNKNOWN QUALITY AND SOME OF IT IS KNOWN TO BE BAD. MAKE SURE
YOU HAVE BACKUP MEANS OF NAVIGATION AND KNOW HOW TO USE THEM. USE THIS DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK.


Link: ftp://ftp.mytopo.com/nhtrails


================================================== =

Chris
Dec 10, 2010

MichaelJ
02-25-2011, 06:35 AM
Hate to revive this note, but.... I couldn't get the link at the end to work. Does anybody have a link that might work? THANKS!!!!

That link works for me. You need an ftp client. Using Windows? Try Internet Explorer, it should do it graphically. If not, or on a Linux system, open up a command line and do:

ftp ftp.mytopo.com

Log in with the username of the word anonymous and your email address as the password. Then

cd /nhtrails

Now you can use:
dir
to see the files
get <filename>
to get a specific one, or to get them all do:
prompt
mget *

If all else fails, it's 20 megabytes, I'll grab them and we'll figure out a one-time way to get them to you (PM me).

Becca M
02-25-2011, 07:08 AM
Hi MichaelJ - OOPS!!! Thanks for the browser info. I have a MAC OS.... would not work with Safari, but, did work with Mozilla!!! I should be all set with this phase!!!! THANKS!!!

Becca M
02-25-2011, 12:23 PM
Hi all!!! I've been struggling for more hours than I can admit trying to pull the .gpx files into my garmin thru my mac. I can "see" the files on my computer but when I try to import them to the gps (a Garmin 60CSx), the mac gives an ALERT message and chokes - I've reached the "maximum number of tracks and trackpoints." I get the same message if I try to import even one track, never mind the entire collection of trails.

In the other replies in this thread, people suggested creating a transparent garmin-compatible map using GPSMapeditor. I cannot find any GPS Map Editor that works on the mac. I've tried all Garmin's MAC downloads. No dice!!!! I've searched for patches on the web and no dice again!!!

Any ideas???? THANKS!!!!! --Becca

MichaelJ
02-25-2011, 12:46 PM
Becca,
Have you tried Garmin's BaseCamp software for the Mac? That allows importing individual GPX files, working with them, and exporting all, some, or one track to the handheld unit.

There are definitely model-specific limits to the number of trackpoints allowed in one track. If you feel like getting creative, you can use a tool like GPSBabel on a GPX file with an individual track in it, and there's a setting to "simplify" the track that takes a maximum number of points to allow in it. Create a new simplified GPX and try that one out.

Becca M
02-25-2011, 01:06 PM
Becca,
Have you tried Garmin's BaseCamp software for the Mac? That allows importing individual GPX files, working with them, and exporting all, some, or one track to the handheld unit.

There are definitely model-specific limits to the number of trackpoints allowed in one track. If you feel like getting creative, you can use a tool like GPSBabel on a GPX file with an individual track in it, and there's a setting to "simplify" the track that takes a maximum number of points to allow in it. Create a new simplified GPX and try that one out.

HI! I tried basecamp, but, it choked. I tried dragging and dropping in the finder window - the gps only shows up as a device in the basecamp window. I tried gpsbabel (mac version), but, couldn't find a way to import even one .gpx file to play with the file. Next step is to use a friend's pc.... WHITE FLAG - I GIVE UP!!!! Thanks for trying to help, though!!! --Becca

DougPaul
02-25-2011, 01:31 PM
The 60CSx has limits of 10K active track points, 20 saved tracks, and 500 points per saved track.

The GPS itself generates active tracks (multiple tracks, each of which can have multiple track segments) for a total of up to 10K points. These tracks can be saved on the GPS (automatically shrunken to 500 points).

When you download the tracks from the GPS, you can distinguish the tracks by their names. When you upload tracks to the GPS, the GPS
automatically determines the type by the track name.

Here is a sample GPX track file containing a very short saved track followed by a very short active track. The active tracks are distinguished by their numbers (#23 in this case).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<gpx>

<trk>
<name>Random saved track</name>
<number>2</number>
<trkseg>
<trkpt lat="44.057605946" lon="-71.504497994">
<ele>29999.039062</ele>
</trkpt>
<trkpt lat="44.057685994" lon="-71.504514925">
<ele>29999.039062</ele>
</trkpt>
</trkseg>
</trk>

<trk>
<name>ACTIVE LOG #23</name>
<number>31</number>
<trkseg>
<trkpt lat="44.063574029" lon="-71.587886950">
<ele>352.460571</ele>
<time>2011-02-23T19:36:00Z</time>
</trkpt>
<trkpt lat="44.063594565" lon="-71.587982085">
<ele>351.979858</ele>
<time>2011-02-23T19:36:37Z</time>
</trkpt>
</trkseg>
</trk>

</gpx>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Doug

PETCH
02-25-2011, 02:16 PM
Becca, sorry to hear you are having such issues with the s'ware. I'm not going to advocate becoming a PC person, because I know many a Mac person and such a statement is cause for death by stoning.
However, when you do get it figured out it will be worth it.

I'm still a novice with the GPS (less than one year of usage), and have a Garmin Vista Hcx with Garmin Topo Northeast 24k s'ware (PC version) using Garmin Basecamp. I find many of the trails in the Garmin software innaccurate. I've compared my tracks of the actual trail to the Garmin trails and very few times did they actually overlay correctly. I know trails can get altered from time to time, but it was a pretty poor percentage none the less.
I've downloaded the tracks from this FTP site about a month ago and so far, they have been dead on. On last weekend's hike I put together a track from the different trail sections over on the Carters. The Garmin software showed the Carter Dome trail before Zeta pass as fairly straight. The track from the FTP site showed a couple switchbacks. Sure enough, the FTP tracks were spot on. I think this FTP site is quite a find.

I still carry a map and encompass, but do embrace technology.

good luck
Petch

DougPaul
02-25-2011, 02:30 PM
I'm still a novice with the GPS (less than one year of usage), and have a Garmin Vista Hcx with Garmin Topo Northeast 24k s'ware (PC version) using Garmin Basecamp. I find many of the trails in the Garmin software innaccurate. I've compared my tracks of the actual trail to the Garmin trails and very few times did they actually overlay correctly. I know trails can get altered from time to time, but it was a pretty poor percentage none the less.
Those topo maps are basically USGS topos--the trails shown are from the USGS topos and were never very accurate and, of course, do not show any changes since the topos were made. Remember too, that your GPS is only a consumer unit (not a survey-grade GPS) and it too may have significant errors.


I've downloaded the tracks from this FTP site about a month ago and so far, they have been dead on. On last weekend's hike I put together a track from the different trail sections over on the Carters. The Garmin software showed the Carter Dome trail before Zeta pass as fairly straight. The track from the FTP site showed a couple switchbacks. Sure enough, the FTP tracks were spot on. I think this FTP site is quite a find.
On our "little" Pemi ski loop trip Becca and I were forced to navigate at certain spots by comparing the WMNF GIS tracks to our current position to find or stay in the trail corridors--the accuracy on the ground was impressive--we would have had to turn back without them. More details in the trip report thread when I get my report posted.

Doug

PETCH
02-25-2011, 02:47 PM
Great points DougPaul. I think a lot of us thought the USGS topo trails would be accurate- hey I dropped $100 bucks on the s'ware? it's gotta be accurate for that coin, right? Live and learn.....

Petch

Becca M
02-25-2011, 03:36 PM
I finally got it to work in only slightly less time than one of my average wilderness adventures. :eek:

The deal: I couldn't find the right file format in gpsbabel. It turned out to be GPX XML. Imported the file, exported after simplifying (VERY OBSCURE interface selections in the gpsbabel front end) to 400pts (individual trails - one trail per track), loaded it as an input file onto the gps thru the mac's basecamp. Still kludgy, but, with these trails becoming more and more obscure, I really needed to know how to do it.

Thanks for working with me - YIPPPPPEEEEEEE!!! --Becca

DougPaul
02-25-2011, 05:37 PM
Great points DougPaul. I think a lot of us thought the USGS topo trails would be accurate- hey I dropped $100 bucks on the s'ware? it's gotta be accurate for that coin, right? Live and learn.....
There has been a fundamental change with the introduction of consumer GPSes--ordinary people suddenly got the ability to determine their locations to an accuracy greater than that of many maps. Many have not yet learned how to deal with it.

Doug

PETCH
02-26-2011, 01:23 PM
There has been a fundamental change with the introduction of consumer GPSes--ordinary people suddenly got the ability to determine their locations to an accuracy greater than that of many maps. Many have not yet learned how to deal with it.

Doug

Oh, I've learned.....USGS topo tracks bad, WMNF GIS tracks good.

Petch

yvon
02-26-2011, 06:28 PM
WOW!!!! 396 trails, Thank you :)
It will help me in future hikes.

Kimball
01-29-2013, 05:32 PM
I just bumped into this old thread. I wanted to add that the WMNF GIS trail data is up on TrailsNH.com (http://TrailsNH.com).

We built transparent map tiles from the data for zoom levels 8 thru 15. The tiles load pretty fast. The trail layer can be used as an overlay on any base layer: street map, terrain, satellite, topo. The trail layer can also be used over the NOAA snow depth estimate map layer, but that's a little buggy right now. And the trail layer has a toggle so you can turn it off.

For example see http://trailsnh.com/?ll=44.171,-71.57&z=12&type=Terrain

-Kimball

JustBob
06-10-2013, 10:15 PM
Just stumbled across this thread, but it looks like the nhtrails directory is no longer on ftp.mytopo.com. Is it hosted anywhere else?

Thanks
b

Kimball
06-11-2013, 11:37 AM
I've renamed "00 - AllTrails.zip" to be clear what it is, and copied it to TrailsNH.com.

You can download it from here:
http://trailsnh.com/GPS/WMNF-2008-trails-GPX-files.zip

Thanks Jeffrey Carter for having a copy of the file, and letting me know the ftp.mytopo.com version was missing.

JustBob
06-11-2013, 11:50 AM
Thanks Kimball

b

Mohamed Ellozy
06-11-2013, 11:54 AM
All the WMNF trails are found on the transparent Garmin My Trails-High Quality Trail and POI Maps Map (http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/maps/view/53/):
The maps now cover 37 states including all of the Eastern US.

These are transparent trails and points maps. They are meant to show things City Navigator does not have. These maps will show on top of whatever map you have loaded on your GPS. While they are optimized for use with City Navigator, they will work with any of the other maps on this site. There are very detailed maps for IL, MO, IN, CA, CO, OH, PA, DC, NM, AR, KY, Iowa, MN, GA, MD, FL, TN, WV, MI, DE, HI, ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, RH, NC, SC, LA, MS, AL, WI, NY, NY, KS, ND, SD, and VA. There are many places in these states that thereis no coverage for. But they represent the best data I have been able to find on the Internet, from agencies, or other users. There is also some minor coverage in TX and OK and complete coverage in Yellowstone/Grand Teton NPs.

The maps have many gaps as they are based on whatever information their creator could find. I do not use this map myself as I have long ago made my own transparent map of the WMNF, and these days I rarely hike outside that area.

JCarter
06-11-2013, 12:08 PM
Thanks Kimball

b

Double-thanks. I've also carved up this file into some "region-specific" sub-files, since my GPS will only display "one" trackfile at a time, but totally falls over dead if you try to load the whole thing at once. Then you don't have to fool with switching back-and-forth during an outing that traverses more than one trail. In my copious free time (right), I'll send them over.

sardog1
06-23-2013, 01:13 PM
Deepest thanks to Kimball for this public service. Worked like a charm with Safari and Garmin's BaseCamp to get all this onto my Oregon 450t in less time than it took to write this.

Trail Bandit
06-27-2013, 06:57 PM
Thanks Kimball. Last Saturday I went to North Moat Mtn. via the Moat Mtn. Trail from Diana's Baths and back down the Red Ridge Trail. I was pleasantly surprised to find that when I superimposed my GPS track on top of your .GPX data, that they were the same. With the lack of maintenance that is enforced by the WMNF, the blazes along many trails leave much to be desired. In the future, I will load your .GPX track for the desired route and hopefully never get lost on a new hike again. I didn't get lost on last week's hike.