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Daniel Eagan
09-08-2012, 06:49 PM
I'm editing an article and want to clarify a point. The author says that if you are working on your winter NE 111, you are not allowed to use snowmobiles to get to a trailhead in Baxter State Park. Here is the passage:

"To start, the roads into and out of the park are closed to all motorized vehicles except snowmobiles necessitating skis or snowshoes as the use of a snowmobile is not allowed if you are doing these peaks to count toward the 'list' for the AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club)."

I'm not sure this is true. When I climbed North Brother etc. I drove a car up to the trailhead. Shouldn't you be able to drive a snowmobile to the same trailhead?

Kevin Rooney
09-08-2012, 07:23 PM
In order to 'count' the peaks in Baxter SP during the winter, you have to complete them without motorized assistance. So, hiking, snowshoeing and skiing are OK - snowmobiles aren't.

There are several peaks in NH which have a summer and a winter trailhead - Carrigan, Zealand and Hale come immediately to mind. You can't use motorized transport to the summer trailhead and 'count' them either.

bobandgeri
09-08-2012, 09:19 PM
http://www.amc4000footer.org/faq.htm#info2

In winter we have absolutely forbidden the use of snowmobiles, even when a road is passable to ordinary cars in summer.

Daniel Eagan
09-08-2012, 11:52 PM
Thanks for the info.

Not sure of the logic. I know some people have used snowmobiles to approach the Seward Mountains, for example, in climbing the Adirondack Forty-Six.

Red Oak
09-09-2012, 06:54 AM
I'm editing an article and want to clarify a point. The author says that if you are working on your winter NE 111, you are not allowed to use snowmobiles to get to a trailhead in Baxter State Park. Here is the passage:

"To start, the roads into and out of the park are closed to all motorized vehicles except snowmobiles necessitating skis or snowshoes as the use of a snowmobile is not allowed if you are doing these peaks to count toward the 'list' for the AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club)."

I'm not sure this is true. When I climbed North Brother etc. I drove a car up to the trailhead. Shouldn't you be able to drive a snowmobile to the same trailhead?As of recently snowmobiles in general were allowed on park tote road but not on Roaring brook road.I am sure if needed for sar purposes,Roaring brook road is used by snowmobiles by park staff in the winter.
Imho the no snowmobile rule for the 48winter and 67winter lists is right on. If this rule was not in effect,any person with cash could get peaks like north bro.,Baxter or peaks in nh like Zealand,etc.Winter factors like weather or distance would be rendered inconsequential.For example;I could wait in Millinocket while a storm clears and then zip up on a snowmobile to get to the trailhead,whats next a helicopter ride?
It seems safe to say that winter adk.46ers do not want to contrast their winter criteria with the nh or ne67 "rules"either.

Kevin Rooney
09-09-2012, 07:28 AM
Not sure of the logic. I know some people have used snowmobiles to approach the Seward Mountains, for example, in climbing the Adirondack Forty-Six.

I would be a bit cautious about comparing the ADK 'rules' with the WM 'rules'. They were created from different hiking cultures, and some are fiercely loyal to their rules, regardless of logic!

Having said that - ADK 'rules' begin and end winter based on calendar dates, whereas WM 'rules' uses the astronomical calculation. Typically, that difference can add a couple of days, sometimes more, to the length of 'winter'.

In any case, it's just a game. Play the game slightly differently depending upon the geographical location, laugh at the silliness of the differences, and above all - enjoy the experience.

sardog1
09-09-2012, 01:20 PM
Thanks for the info.

Not sure of the logic. I know some people have used snowmobiles to approach the Seward Mountains, for example, in climbing the Adirondack Forty-Six.

I'm no peak bagger and never will be. But I understand the logic perfectly. The summer list is something within reach of a lot of people, relatively speaking. The winter list is significantly tougher and fewer make it, because of the conditions under which it is accomplished. (sardog1's First Rule Of Winter: Everything takes longer and weighs more in winter.)

The "no snowmobiles" rule is obviously part and parcel of the challenge. A winter patch justifies puffing out your chest that much more (figuratively speaking, of course!), knowing how much tougher it was to achieve.

RoySwkr
09-09-2012, 01:36 PM
Not sure of the logic. I know some people have used snowmobiles to approach the Seward Mountains, for example, in climbing the Adirondack Forty-Six.
Several of the early NE100 finishers used snowmobiles in Baxter for gear transport at least, it was allowed then. At least one group brought their gear in with a 4wd truck in a light snow year but had to park it outside. Of course to climb in Baxter back then, you needed a medical certificate from a doctor, had to carry 100 garden stakes for route markers, etc. so overall Baxter is much easier now.

Many groups have different rules, the Highpointers Club allows you to drive up Mt Washington for example.

teleskier
09-09-2012, 04:19 PM
Actually the winter situation re: the road to the Sewards is somewhat unique and (I think) very much agrees in spirit with the NH rule - that if a road is legally drivable on the day of your hike, you may use a car or any other conveyance on it rather than hike that stretch. The Sewards road doesn't officially close until the gate is closed, which typically happens in late winter as thaws occur, to prevent damage to the road in soft conditions (rather than to simply close it because of snow). Prior to that, it's open and legally drivable, although plowing is only sporadic, so it's drive at your own risk. Many people (myself included) have driven four-wheel drive vehicles to the summer trailhead during this time, and if some choose to use snowmobiles, I don't see the difference.

Once the gate is closed, it's off-limits, and then, as in NH, it should be hiked or skied.

Lucky Laura
09-10-2012, 06:25 PM
In order to 'count' the peaks in Baxter SP during the winter, you have to complete them without motorized assistance. So, hiking, snowshoeing and skiing are OK - snowmobiles aren't.

There are several peaks in NH which have a summer and a winter trailhead - Carrigan, Zealand and Hale come immediately to mind. You can't use motorized transport to the summer trailhead and 'count' them either.

Actually, Kevin- I was surprised earlier in April when someone told me my grid hike to Carrigain would not count because I rode my bicycle up Sawyer River Road to the summer trailhead. All the other forest roads had opened - but not Sawyer River Road. I never gave it a thought since if you could drive a car to the trailhead, why not a bicycle? When recounting the hike to someone, I was informed that since the road was gated at the time to cars, the "rules" dictate having used a bicycle, my hike was invalid.

Oh, darn- guess I'll have to return to Carrigain in April 2013 if I want to finish the Grid!

Red Oak
09-11-2012, 10:27 AM
Actually, Kevin- I was surprised earlier in April when someone told me my grid hike to Carrigain would not count because I rode my bicycle up Sawyer River Road to the summer trailhead. All the other forest roads had opened - but not Sawyer River Road. I never gave it a thought since if you could drive a car to the trailhead, why not a bicycle? When recounting the hike to someone, I was informed that since the road was gated at the time to cars, the "rules" dictate having used a bicycle, my hike was invalid.

Oh, darn- guess I'll have to return to Carrigain in April 2013 if I want to finish the Grid!Bummer!! Who are the deciding powers on this one?It seems if a road is closed in july/aug. for example you should be able to ride a bike and have it count.I can understand the logic in winter but april?Let me know if you have a grid tail gate party after carrigain next april. I will bring some beer:D

Kevin Rooney
09-11-2012, 10:36 AM
Actually, Kevin- I was surprised earlier in April when someone told me my grid hike to Carrigain would not count because I rode my bicycle up Sawyer River Road to the summer trailhead. All the other forest roads had opened - but not Sawyer River Road. I never gave it a thought since if you could drive a car to the trailhead, why not a bicycle? When recounting the hike to someone, I was informed that since the road was gated at the time to cars, the "rules" dictate having used a bicycle, my hike was invalid.

Oh, darn- guess I'll have to return to Carrigain in April 2013 if I want to finish the Grid!

Laura - that particular interpretation strikes me a quite silly. Assuming the Sawyer River Road were to open next Friday, you could ride a bike from the winter trailhead up the hill for a couple of miles on Friday, and that would make it a 'count-er'. However, if you did the exact thing on Thursday, you couldn't! There are several on this BB who defend that position as entirely logical, but I'm not one of them!

RoySwkr
09-11-2012, 10:45 AM
Laura - that particular interpretation strikes me a quite silly.
The Highpointers Club allows you to drive up Mt Washington, they consider it silly to walk up when there's a perfectly good road. In baseball, you advance on 4 balls but need only 3 strikes to be out - isn't that silly? Nobody is required to play baseball or to apply for an AMC patch - if you want to ride bikes on trails where they're legal, get the Granite State Wheelmen to give you a patch!

Lucky Laura
09-11-2012, 02:18 PM
Laura - that particular interpretation strikes me a quite silly. Assuming the Sawyer River Road were to open next Friday, you could ride a bike from the winter trailhead up the hill for a couple of miles on Friday, and that would make it a 'count-er'. However, if you did the exact thing on Thursday, you couldn't! There are several on this BB who defend that position as entirely logical, but I'm not one of them!

I laughed when the guy told me this but verified with Steve Smith afterwards. Honestly, I don't mind going back to do Carrigain. The whole reason for my doing the grid was that it made decision making so easy for a few years on what to hike. I drove myself nuts before that with "what should I hike today?" With the grid, "Oh, haven't done Waumbek in November".

Now I'm almost back to my problem in early 2009. What should I do now? Fortunately, I have a few nieces and nephews who love to go.

And Red Oak- I'll be drinking the beer on the fire tower.