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View Full Version : more AMC vs the snomobilers



afka_bob
02-20-2005, 06:42 AM
In today's New Hampshire Sunday News (Union Leader): Nature Center wants snowmobilers kept away (http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=50993).

kaibar
02-20-2005, 03:49 PM
It's part of how some people enjoy the outdoors in winter. Some alpine ski, some hike, some cross country ski, some bird watch and some snomobile. Just because we prefer to hike does not mean we can't share the wildreness. I think stances like our own AMC is taking give us a bad rap as an intolerable ultra leftist organization when we need to be more middle of the road to gain any respect. We're all such hipocrits I see more gas guzzeling suv's and awd vehicles with AMC stickers than I do hybrid Toyota's or Honda's come to think of it I have never seen a hybrid parked at a trail head. Snomobilers have been using the trails around Twin Mtn. long before we built the hypocrit palace. Every year I wonder more and more why I belong to a group that is so intolerant of other humans. just my .02.

bobmak
02-20-2005, 04:54 PM
Not to AMC bash, but it seems to me that this is a hotel located between a highway and some railroad tracks, and the issue is snow mobiles 2 months out of the year? Me thinks there are better fights to pick concerning preserving the forest.

Peakbagr
02-20-2005, 04:55 PM
...tick...tick....tick

Sherpa John
02-20-2005, 08:33 PM
From my input on the a thread I posted on my HC stay this past weekend:
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5332

"... there were yellow flyers available at the front desk. it was explained at dinner " you folks might have seen our new snowmobile trails around the HC. We would like to hear your thoughts on our trails and your input is very important to us." Important for them to use as ammo in court."

They have tourists from NY and PA filling out comment cards on an issue they know nothing about!
:eek:

Jasonst
02-21-2005, 09:58 AM
Do it peakbagr - this is only the 124th thread on snowmobiling in the last 2 months.

bobmak
02-21-2005, 10:28 AM
"Do it peakbagr - this is only the 124th thread on snowmobiling in the last 2 months."

Awwwww, come on.... If it wasn't for snowmobiles, the AMC and dogs nobody would ever post! :D

afka_bob
02-21-2005, 11:51 AM
Do it peakbagr - this is only the 124th thread on snowmobiling in the last 2 months.Yeah, it's kind of seasonal. Jet ski discussions are a little flat this time of year in the N.E.

dave.m
02-21-2005, 11:53 AM
...tick...tick....tick

So, are discussions of land use issues in New England and discussion of the AMC specifically, considered to be political (and thus, verbotten) or not?

I note that the site rules are (delightfully) ambiguous on that.
http://www.vftt.org/rules.html

afka_bob
02-21-2005, 11:56 AM
That is one ugly baby in your pack. The pink helmet is a nice touch though.Rule #1: never call anybody's baby "ugly." That just really cold, man.

Jasonst
02-21-2005, 12:09 PM
Very funny switcharoo. Has SherpaK commented on the pic yet?

afka_bob
02-21-2005, 12:34 PM
"Switcheroo"? SherpaK? What are you talking about?

This is thread about snowmobilers and the AMC -- could we stay a bit more on topic? ;)

TCD
02-21-2005, 12:54 PM
Sherpakroto was in your backpack, instead of your baby, earlier.

Jasonst
02-21-2005, 01:14 PM
Sherpakroto was in your backpack, instead of your baby, earlier.

Hey, I do have an advocate. Thanks for hangin' me out to dry ;)

Peakbagr
02-21-2005, 01:16 PM
"So, are discussions of land use issues in New England and discussion of the AMC specifically, considered to be political (and thus, verbotten) or not?"

It doesn't have anything to do with 'political'. Like a number of other potentially explosive topics, threads like this often devolve into little illumination and sometimes turn into name calling. So far, so good on this one.

afka_bob
02-21-2005, 06:38 PM
I've never had an unpleasant experience with snowmobilers in 20+ years of winter activities in the White Mountains.

The sense of entitlement I think I've witnessed (could be over-sensitive me) from a more than one AMC group was at least irritating, if not unpleasant.

Since all of these encounters were all on WMNF land, I have to give the nod to the snowmobilers.

PS:
I may not be father of the year, but I think I can tell the difference between SherpaK and my daughter. And if saying it was SherpaK and saying he is ugly is gonna be your story :rolleyes:, well, remember, he is somebody's baby, too. So, even in this dubious instance, we return to Rule #1: never call anybody's baby "ugly." ;)

Dalraida
02-21-2005, 06:51 PM
I too have had only positive experiences in sharing trails with snowmobilers. I do make sure that I am wearing my hunter orange vest, and keep to the side of the trails while I am skiing.

If only the machines wouldn't stink so much with all that raw gasoline exhaust smell. Have you ever gone into an eating establishment that was full of riders! Man, how can they stand it themselves?

giggy
02-22-2005, 07:41 AM
did kaibar get it 100% or what - couldn't agree more.

I used to be a member of the amc for years, didn't renew for a few years and then gave them another shot this year - I realized my mistake almost instantly. I will not renew with them ever again. They have real big ones to even consider blasting the snowmobilers.

the only thing the highland center is good for is using the bathroom for #2 before a climb.

GeorgeFitch
02-22-2005, 08:16 AM
>>> If only the machines wouldn't stink so much with all that raw gasoline exhaust smell. Have you ever gone into an eating establishment that was full of riders! Man, how can they stand it themselves? <<<

I'll bet more than one diner has thought the same thing when a group of hikers comes in after a week in the woods, dripping with sweat and Old Time Woodsman's Fly Dope.

:)

kaibar got it 100% correct. There's room for everyone and there's more than one way to enjoy the great outdoors.

BrentD22
02-22-2005, 08:20 AM
I think if we are going to say NO to snow mobilers (which I have never been on one, but would love to try some time) then we have to say NO to messy, noisey, rude, tree cutting, trash leaving, late night drinking hikers. The snow mobilers stay on there trails in all experiances I've had with them and have always waved in a very nice way. One even stopped on Paugus Rd. this past weekend and asked me if I wanted a ride a little ways(I declined, but thanked him). I think it would be nice if they snow mobil companies could find better ways to quiet the machines down some and make them less stinky and thats not only for hikers it's also to make the exeriance for snow mobilers better as well as for local home owners with land next to SM trails. Either way I think the hotel AMC in the long run will cause more negative impact than snow mobilers will.

I heard that the old Crawford Hostel was back open. What's the latest news on this?

Bob
02-22-2005, 11:07 AM
Awwwww, come on.... If it wasn't for snowmobiles, the AMC and dogs nobody would ever post!

Let's not forget hunters...

Mike P.
02-22-2005, 11:37 AM
Hopefully they are working on the other solution mentioned in the article for next year. RR beds are Federal Property which is the same argurment Rails to Trails has used when people in the neighborhoods complain about people walking in(near) their backyards when no one has been there for a niumber of years.

I like the comment the snowmobilier made about AMC not liking people in snowmobile suits, without a Pack Room in the HC, I don't know if they like hikers at HC either.... :D

DeadFred
02-22-2005, 11:44 AM
I think it would be nice if they snow mobil companies could find better ways to quiet the machines down some and make them less stinky

This is often my point about the hikers vs snowmobilers debate. Hey, almost all of us drive cars and don't think twice about it. I don't care for the snow machines, but I appreciate that these people should be able to play in their own way, just as some of us more "purist" hikers do. I only wish, to Brent's point above, that the machine makers would do more to solve the pollution and noise problems. There are jerk hikers and jerk machiners, but most are just out in the wilderness to enjoy the outdoors. When we cross, it's usually amicable, but I still HATE the noise and smell but there are still lots of areas for each side to enjoy exclusive territory. (I've never seen a machine on the summit of Marcy. :D )

All that being said, I wouldn't mind getting on one of those puppys and running at 60 miles an hour through the forest and on some frozen lake. I guess I just decided somewhere along the line that snowmobiling was one thing I would choose NOT to play with.

Stan
02-22-2005, 12:48 PM
Cleaner, yes ... but I'm not so sure about quieter.

I sometimes find a snowmobile trail to be useful as part of my route and feel safer knowing that I can hear them coming.

If snowmobilers followed some of the same logic as some of us hikers then I'd have heard, "Hey hiker, got off our trail!" But I haven't ... just a friendly wave and an occasional chat.

TCD
02-22-2005, 12:55 PM
afka_bob

I don't know you or sherpakroto at all, but you both seem like reasonable people. Consider the possibility that sherpakroto is not, in fact, "somebody's baby." The way he keeps popping up in the avatars, he may be reproducing himself through some other means!

DeadFred
02-22-2005, 01:10 PM
he may be reproducing himself through some other means!

It's amazing what those clandestine cloning labs are doing with people today!

Mike P.
02-22-2005, 04:20 PM
I agree with Stan, some noise is good so you know they are coming. Everyone has been friendly in my encounters in the Whites on trails or on Greylock. (They are quiter than Harleys, another group that says that noise helps them be seen, IMO they could be a little quieter too)

Did come across sled tracks a couple of years ago on the trail up Mt. Martha, they from Route 115. They got up a ways but did not reach the snowmobile trail that goes across the top.

If the AMC is smart, they will pressue the USFS & anyone else to work on the other option mentioned in the article, this season only has a few more weeks left, if they don't like it now, work on changing t for next year, it may snow earlier in Nov. or Dec 2005.

funkyfreddy
02-22-2005, 04:32 PM
All that being said, I wouldn't mind getting on one of those puppys and running at 60 miles an hour through the forest and on some frozen lake. I guess I just decided somewhere along the line that snowmobiling was one thing I would choose NOT to play with.

I would also get a kick out of throwing sticks of dynamite off a mountain top, but choose not to....... ;)

afka_bob
02-22-2005, 04:44 PM
........and you can never tell who will show up where, or with whom.The one on the left (of sunfish's avatar) is my good twin!

Here's another vote for snowmobiles that aren't too quiet.

RoySwkr
02-23-2005, 07:22 PM
The state has spent at least $225,000 to create another trail in the area, beside a road serving the Mount Washington Cog Railway. Club officials said the state should widen that trail rather than building the new one near its center.
Having seen that trail, it is a disaster waiting to happen. It recrosses Base Road several times, and with Base Road partly snow covered and snow on the trail thin, at night or in a storm it would be really hard to tell them apart. I consider that money wasted; a new trail should be built away from the road to prevent accidents.



Club officials say the trail is incompatible with their goals for the property. The center, built with environmentally friendly techniques, is tucked into a fold of land that hides it from nearby Route 302.

"It was really designed to separate it out from the motorized world," Graff said.
Not visible from 302, huh? They don't want snowmobiles on a railroad track next to a highway, they don't want them in Wild River either, could it be they don't want them anywhere?



"They have a different feeling about people in a snowmobile suit," he said. "They really do."
Traditionally the AMC has been cool to blue-collar types, which most snowmobilers are. Of course the reverse is true too.

Panama Jack
02-24-2005, 08:10 AM
My family and I spent the weekend at Indian Head resort in Franconia Notch this past weekend. How great was it to be in their outdoor pool with Flume, Liberty Little Haystack Lincoln and Lafayette as the view. Magnificent!

Staying there along with our intrepid hiking crew of 9 were about 60-70 snowmobiles and all of their accompanying snowmobilers.

When they all packed up and went home on Monday morning they left the parking lot of the hotel A MESS with Wendys wrappers, empty coffee cups, plastic bags. It was crazy!

One of the people with us was a snowmobiler herself and she was livid at the mess. Its very easy to paint groups of people with a broad stroke. I'm sure not all snowmobilers are so insensitive. BUT these are the only pack of them I've ever encountered so close up, they were a bad representation.

However, after the snowmobile suits and hiking clothes came off we were all equal at the bar :o .

So in the absense of "the gear" how could you tell the hikers from the snowmobilers??? The amount of pendulus apendage of course. :D

kaibar
02-24-2005, 05:04 PM
I had a chance to see Poco last summer a number of times. He really was a people loving animal. You could not stay away from him if he liked you. He actually followed my friends Neil & Stacey all the way from Diamond Island in Casco Bay to the Cape Cod Canal and then turned around and was back in Casco Bay the next day. He loved the area around my Yacht Club and the Falmouth Foreside area I don't know why but he did. I know so many people that got to experience Poco. It's amazing he coved so much ground and always came back to Casco Bay where he eventuall died. Whales and people don't mix in the wild....

-Kaibar

GeorgeFitch
02-24-2005, 05:56 PM
Sorry for taking this off topic - to the best of my knowledge, Poco never rode a snowmobile, but the little guy sure got around the coast of New England this past summer! And the story of Poco is quite fascinating.

>>> He actually followed my friends Neil & Stacey all the way from Diamond Island in Casco Bay to the Cape Cod Canal and then turned around and was back in Casco Bay the next day. <<<

Mr. kaibar, do you get the Points East magazine? In the latest issue they featured several stories on Poco, including one that I wrote. We had the pleasure of meeting Poco in Gloucester Harbor, MA, last May. That was before we had heard about him so it was really a surprise.

I hope to meet you this summer. We keep our sailboat at Handy Boat in Falmouth Foreside, and sometimes have our two sea-kayaks strapped on the bow. Casco Bay is truly a heavenly place for kayaking and sailing.

:)

kaibar
02-24-2005, 06:43 PM
Again sorry for the off topic... I keep mine there as well and live just around the point from Handy's in Broad Cove. I've been sailing and around boats since I was a kid and am currently enjoying the dark side. We sold our C-36 last year and switched to a downeast style. I'm sure I'll be back to sail in a year or two. I'm familiar with a Catalina 30 with two kayaks as well as a Pearson 303 are either of those you?? Have you checked out the cruising world Bulletin Board http://forum.cruisingworld.com/forums/genlmesg/index.pl it's a great sailing B.B with great people...

If you like Maine check out my web site lots of photos of the Maine Coast..

http://home.maine.rr.com/halekai/index.htm

-Kaibar

GeorgeFitch
02-24-2005, 07:45 PM
Hi kaibar,

Nice photos! My boat is "Cirrus", a '78 Ericson 35. Our mooring is on the very outer edge of the Handy Boat mooring field, closest to the southwest end of Clapboard Island. We have two red P&H Capella kayaks. You can see a picture of it on my homepage. We should take further discussion to Private Messages or e-mail. You can get to Private Messages, my e-mail and homepage thru the "Members List" link at the top of this page. See ya there.

Cheers,

George