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View Full Version : Number of posts & chat room feel



Pemi Pete
03-30-2005, 07:48 AM
This is a great site--thank you to Darren, and Peakbagger, for donating their time and money to keep it going.

However, it seems that lately the site has taken on the feel of a chat room, with 2 or 3 posters carrying on "conversations," with multiple uninformative posts every day.

How does everyone else feel about this?

And on a practical note, is there a limit to the size of the site, and do the number of posts matter in this regard?

Tom Rankin
03-30-2005, 08:03 AM
This is a great site--thank you to Darren, and Peakbagger, for donating their time and money to keep it going.

However, it seems that lately the site has taken on the feel of a chat room, with 2 or 3 posters carrying on "conversations," with multiple uninformative posts every day.

How does everyone else feel about this?

And on a practical note, is there a limit to the size of the site, and do the number of posts matter in this regard?

I think you will find that Darren has already 'voted' on this issue, in one of the 'chat' threads...

rhihn
03-30-2005, 08:06 AM
I think there are many excellent threads, and with a site this large there are bound to be some not so excellent ones. The impression of the site depends upon which posts one chooses to read. Also, one person's "uninformative" post could be another person's gold mine.

There's room for all.

Sherpa John
03-30-2005, 09:10 AM
I'm going to agree with Dr. Wu on this issue.

I know yesterdays thread got away from Patches and into a group of us just having a good time... and it was a great time. I also felt bad Darren had to spank us. :D

But as the old saying goes... "if your not interested... don't click on it." Its easy to see when a post has travelled away from its original premis or is just down right non-sense. IF you see it has come to that and don;t wish to read anymore... then.. well... DON'T READ ANYMORE. :eek:

darren
03-30-2005, 10:57 AM
Pete, thanks for bringing the problem to light. I really do strive to keep this site focused and on topic. It is, as I have said many times, what makes this site different. This site is an information resource, not a chat room.

I feel bad when I have to take out the ruler and slap some wrists, but it is necessary once in a while to keep things running on the same track that I have had for the last 10 years.

Sherpa John, you said "if your not interested... don't click on it" which can be true in a sense, but it does not apply here on my site. A reader should not click on a thread that looks like an interesting topic only to find a thread that has degenerated into a chat room free for all. As more and more threads degenerate into a free for all (and it does seem to all come from a few bad apples lately) then there is less and less desire from all the other readers to read any of the threads.

It is my intent to keep everything on this site on focus. The environment here may seem to "sterile" to some but it is just right for many. The many that like it that way are the ones that I cater to.

Thanks for understanding.

- darren

spencer
03-30-2005, 11:06 AM
Darren,

I think you should institute a system of abusers having to wear scarlet letters or dunce caps on their avatar. If someone posts more than 10 useless posts within a week, or something like that, they get the mark...

Embarassment would curtail uselessness :D

spencer

Mr. X
03-30-2005, 11:28 AM
Darren,

I think you should institute a system of abusers having to wear scarlet letters or dunce caps on their avatar. If someone posts more than 10 useless posts within a week, or something like that, they get the mark...

Embarassment would curtail uselessness :D

spencer

Getting the dunce cap or scarlett letter could be viewed as a challange to some!

Panama Jack
03-30-2005, 11:30 AM
I also was participating in the hi-jinks on the auction thread. It was a light spot in an otherwise crappy day.

When I logged on this morning and saw that the thread had been ended I was disappointed but didnt feel guilty or remorseful. After all, for all of its educational and beta value, this site is for entertainment.

Some peoples idea of being entertained is opera and for others its monster truck shows. Don't go to the Monster truck show if you are looking for aria's.

I do like the dunce cap idea though, truly. Sometimes we don't realize how far down the road some things have gotten. It would be great laughs as well.

On another thread looking for a California version of views someone posted a link to backpacker/trailtalk. When I clicked on it the biggest thread was "The Terry Schiavo thread"

I dont want to have to wade throught all that off topic crap when I am looking for equipment reccomendations or trail conditions. So Darren's rules are very much appreciated and helpful. I don't mind them and fully expect to be reminded of them from time to time.

There is a sense of betrayal attached to this particular incident as "Pemi Pete" with his 2 posts is either one of us in disguise (no balls) or some newbie
who couldnt possibly have a sense in 2 posts what the tambre of the site is like (know it all).

Darren, its your shelter, I'm just here to stay warm and sleep, if you dont want white fuel stoves in here (metaphorically speaking) then I am happy to cook outside or switch to a canister.

Some other folks posted their thoughts about shame or embarrassment after being shut down. Don't bother, I dont get the sense that Darren is into public flogging or berating people in public. He just wants to protect his shelter!

Good hiking all! :)

sli74
03-30-2005, 11:59 AM
Some peoples idea of being entertained is opera and for others its monster truck shows. Don't go to the Monster truck show if you are looking for aria's.



The point, however, is that you wouldn't go to the opera house and shout and scream and carry on as though you were in a monster truck rally and the people attending the opera shouldn't have to deal with that. And maybe that is the point that you are making? I wasn't sure so I thought I would reiterate





There is a sense of betrayal attached to this particular incident as "Pemi Pete" with his 2 posts is either one of us in disguise (no balls) or some newbie who couldnt possibly have a sense in 2 posts what the tambre of the site is like (know it all).



Could be a longtime lurker with only 2 posts, not everyone who is a regular is necessarily a poster.

BTW, there is PLENTY of personality to this site, I don't find it sterile AT ALL . . . there is personal interaction that is allowed and welcomed but it should just be related to the outdoors (did I get that right Darren?) . . . Darren even added the Trips and Events section a while back to encourage interaction between all of us?

We just can't have the conversation get WAY out of control (music, auctions, and such)

Anyway, I couldn't keep my mouth shut today ;) so there is my 2 cents.

sli74

Pucknuts61
03-30-2005, 12:03 PM
You can go to trail maps to find routes, or to backpacking magazines to find gear reviews, or to any number of sites for weather information, etc etc.

What makes this site unique are the individual experiences that we share and the "personality" added to the posts.

The "characters" :rolleyes: on this site are what sets it aside from others and the ability to share information in a relaxed sometimes fun atmosphere is what makes it better.

and yes, every so often daddy and mommy have to spank some hands to get the kiddies back on track of the intended purpose, but in the end it's very rare that this occurs.

Please keep up the good work and monitor the activity, but still provide some lee-way to allow everyone to be themselves.
Thank you,
Bill

afka_bob
03-30-2005, 01:12 PM
I think you should institute a system of abusers having to wear scarlet letters or dunce caps on their avatar. If someone posts more than 10 useless posts within a week, or something like that, they get the mark...
tweedledee: 10? Only 10?!?

tweedledum: Hey! You gotta funny hat!

dee: Me? You gotta funny hat!

dum: No I don't -- you do!

dee: No, you do!

Etc.

spencer
03-30-2005, 01:16 PM
I had you in mind, but I see you took it upon yourself to wear the hat... :D

I'm starting to think Afka_Bob doesn't even hike... :p

spencer

p.s. (this is now my 2nd for the week)

afka_bob
03-30-2005, 01:20 PM
I'm starting to think Afka_Bob doesn't even hike... Had you come to that conclusion, say, six or eight months ago, I'd have to say you were a clever person. ;)

All this time, I've just been trying to break your and Sli74's posts-per-day records!

Panama Jack
03-30-2005, 01:36 PM
That I had Afka_Bobs photoshop skills!

chomp
03-30-2005, 01:43 PM
Thanks, Darren, I was just starting to have the same kind of feelings that Pete expressed. There does seem to be a lot of silly back-and-forth banter going on lately. Its a shame that, on a thread asking for less of this kind of behavior, there is exactly this kind of behavior.

Neil
03-30-2005, 01:53 PM
It seems that between seasons things get a little out of hand. Last November though was worse because there was lots of negative stuff going on.

If you want to get loose and silly but still be on a fairly focussed hiking form go to:

http://www.adkforum.com

It only focusses on the 'dacks however and it would seem that the silliness is coming from parts east of there. :)

Hampshire
03-30-2005, 02:18 PM
Spencer, I had Afka_Bob in mind as well. Afka_Bob, do you hike?

For what its worth I've been annoyed by the posts of some, especially in the middle of a thread of interest.

I can appreciate the differences in personalities and I'm sure to some degree that the personality of each person is refeclted in the manner in which they post.

I've been a member for sometime (pre crash, pre new format) and have a total of 24 post since Sept. 2003. This might be my first post not hiking related (I think you can guess my personality). By the way, I do hike, every weekend. That being said this is a hiking site and regardless of a persons post count or personality its the content that matters.

I know I've opened myself to all sorts of comments, I hope you understand if I don't respond.

Sherpa John
03-30-2005, 02:22 PM
I actually wonder to myself.. And I find this to be relevant to this thread... but..

I have a list going of people I am CERTAIN DO NOT HIKE at all but come to this site. My question is... are they here to throw apples at us whom do hike just to start trouble? Are they here because this is their little playground? Or do they actually have some kind of addition to add to this site? My guess would be (a few) are just here for all of the above.

chomp
03-30-2005, 02:37 PM
I have a list going of people I am CERTAIN DO NOT HIKE

What? There are people that visit this site that do not hike at all? I find that hard to believe - how are you certain?

mavs00
03-30-2005, 02:44 PM
Thanks, Darren, I was just starting to have the same kind of feelings that Pete expressed. There does seem to be a lot of silly back-and-forth banter going on lately. Its a shame that, on a thread asking for less of this kind of behavior, there is exactly this kind of behavior.

AMEN chomp. Although, I'm sure I've been guilty a time or two, when "the MAN" say's enough, ENOUGH.............. Very simply. It's takes alot of stones to jump in and do the very thing "frowned upon" in the very thread he explained his reasoning (i.e. told us not to do it) against it.

And be careful with the DON'T HIKE / HIKE references, I know several respected and very knowledgable members here that for whatever physical reason, are no longer able to spend the amount of time "hiking" as they would like. They still always find a way to add valuable insight and perspective despite their "non-hiking" status.

Bottom line, whether you hike or don't hike, stay on topic is all darren has asked for. Doesn't seem to hard now does it.

Peakbagr
03-30-2005, 03:46 PM
What first attracted me to VFTT was the exchange of information. Experts, newcomers, winter folks, 3 season folks, ADKs, VT and NE.
I belong to some Usenet groups, as well as other Discussion Boards. If I want to be entertained, I can go elsewhere, or, look in the mirror.
I come here for information and to meet and learn about this sport from others.
Darren and I get along because we come from the same place on this.
VFTT gets slammed on other boards for precisely the reason I'm attacted here. It doesn't appeal to everyone, but almost 1,900 others seem to find value in it.

PB

jade
03-30-2005, 04:02 PM
I'm sssss, ahem.......
I'm sssss......wait.....
I'm sorry....

.....Jade

darren
03-30-2005, 06:29 PM
You hit the nail on the head Chomp. Here is a thread complaining about silly banter and a few select people see the need to post crap right in this thread. Spencer, I actually really like your idea of the dunce cap, but as it has already been shown some people actually would choose to wear it as a badge of honor. Unreal. I thought I left behavior like that back in middle school.

So I guess I will make things clear right now. I will not accept people acting like children on this site. Contrary to what some people have said here, this site is not for entertainment. This site is for the exchange of backcountry related information. Period. Sure people's personalities can come through in posts, but it will be through their exchange of information and opinions and not through the exchange of banter and finger pointing.

Now here is the new news. This new version of the forum software has a new feature that the old version lacked. Under the old version a user could be permanently banned. Under this version I can set the period of the ban. It can be 1 day, 2 days, 1 week, 1 month, a year, or permanent. So consider this everyone's warning - especially some of you who are already wearing dunce caps. Useless posts of mindless dribble = banned. The duration of your ban will be commensurate with your offense and on your past history (and I think those of you who have a history know it). One or two bad posts will get you a few days or weeks with no access to these forums. Your IP address (yes, work and home) will be banned. Oh, and just in case you are wondering banned means you can not even read the forums, nevermind post in them.

I hate that it has come to this but some people just will not learn that I am serious about how I want to run this site. The offenders might not like it, but the other 1900 will.

- darren

pbernard
03-31-2005, 08:00 AM
Thanks Darren, I totally agree with your philosophy.

McRat
03-31-2005, 11:08 AM
Darren,

I have always loved the site, and am glad that you have the tools to successfully moderate and keep it great. Keep up the good work! :D

Have you perhaps considered adding a chat applet? It might satisfy the need for chit-chat and joking among members of the local hiking community - and minimize the amount that sometimes happens in other threads. Might make everyone happy.

Not a criticism, just my $0.02

Sherpa John
03-31-2005, 01:49 PM
I agree with Mr. Rat, it would proove beneficial in building the community more.

David Metsky
03-31-2005, 02:01 PM
Frankly, I don't think the community needs much more building. There are other places to chat, there are PMs, email, and we get together regularly IRL for hikes, skis, drinking, and events. The community is pretty darn strong as it is.

I have no problems with people wanting to use Chat, but Darren doesn't need to be the facilitator of it, and as a webmaster I wouldn't want to take on the hassle. In my experience, people generally get more volitile in chats, tempers flair, and if flows over onto the message boards making no one happy. I would really dislike seeing a chatroom on this site.

-dave-

dr_wu002
03-31-2005, 02:12 PM
I have no problems with people wanting to use Chat, but Darren doesn't need to be the facilitator of it, and as a webmaster I wouldn't want to take on the hassle. In my experience, people generally get more volitile in chats, tempers flair, and if flows over onto the message boards making no one happy. I would really dislike seeing a chatroom on this site.

-dave-
There already is a thing that displays if you have AIM or some other chat program. Built in chat rooms could cause things to get nasty, I agree. I use the PM feature to talk one on one with a few of my hiking friends. In general, except for the occasional PM about monkeys drinking beer, we try to stick to hiking related topics.

-Dr. Wu

Peakbagr
03-31-2005, 02:50 PM
There is enough referee-ing that goes on here already. If you want to chat, pick up the phone, send an email, use a PM, or meet someone at the pub.
With 1900 members and growing every week, if even 1% require adult supervision, thats a pretty big daycare center already.

chomp
03-31-2005, 03:23 PM
I agree with the above comments. There are already fields that let you fill out what chat services you are a member of. if you would like a "chat" room, fill out those fields, and chat with those that have the same fields filled out themselves. Also, a chat applet would require more server power and more bandwidth. As someone who is involved currently in an off-site email thread, let me tell you that its EASY to keep chatting about stuff with email.

Sherpa John
03-31-2005, 04:46 PM
Cool... never though of that myself.. well.. I have but... not as such. Thanks! :o