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View Full Version : AMC permitting new helicopter landing site on the base station road



peakbagger
09-12-2018, 02:24 PM
https://www.conwaydailysun.com/business/local/amc-proposes-new-airlift-site-on-wmnf-for-lakes-hut/article_d521fcce-b5ed-11e8-8e94-dff8e6c5fd95.html

Revenge of the cog.

skiguy
09-12-2018, 04:14 PM
Interesting there was no mention of the spillage around Madison Hut a few seasons ago. If I remember correctly there was some airlifted sewage dropped into Kinsman pond a while back also.

JoshandBaron
09-13-2018, 09:05 AM
Interesting there was no mention of the spillage around Madison Hut a few seasons ago. If I remember correctly there was some airlifted sewage dropped into Kinsman pond a while back also.

There's that negative feedback they're talking about. THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE, SIR!

skiguy
09-13-2018, 01:00 PM
There's that negative feedback they're talking about. THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE, SIR!

I fail to see where it is a Public Service flying someone else’s poop out of the mountains. Especilly considering the project is currently being assessed by the WMNF as a categorical exclusion under the National Environmental Policy Act. Also nice that they can write off the expense due to their non-profit status.

sierra
09-13-2018, 01:38 PM
Presby found out that the AMC pretty much does what they want and think they are above it all. Good for him, telling them to take a hike. From what I remember, it wasn't rain water leaking from the buckets at Madison, but don't expect the AMC to admit to that.

peakbagger
09-13-2018, 01:39 PM
If I dig out my copy of the AMC Huts EIS from years ago I believe one of the justifications of the huts is that it reduces overall environmental degradation to sensitive areas by providing a method of collecting and treating human waste. Without the huts there would be no sanitary systems in place at generally high use areas yet the usage would remain. Maybe at one point the hut guests were the major users of the toilets but expect these days they are minority compared to day hikers. Generally when I am at a hut during peak day hiking hours there is line of mostly day hikers waiting to use the facilities. Without them the "lilies" that crop up near treeline on trails away from huts would increase near the huts. Take a look in the woods just below treeline on Falling Waters or Cap Ridge, every water bar and every break in the vegetation has a pile of toilet paper. Therefore to me there is public service in flying out the public poop despite being comingled with guest poop.

I would rather have some entity providing and maintaining toilet faculties at high use areas than the alternative. I have not hiked Mt Whitney in CA and other high use areas but my understanding is despite rules in place that human waste must be carried out that there typically are plenty of "surprises" behind most rocks along the trail. I have personally witnessed the toilet areas adjacent to some of the AT shelters through the Smoky Mountain National park and far prefer the recent transition to composting privies. The toilet areas are a couple of acres of open woods with piles of toilet paper and crap behind every tree and frequently in plain sight. Mike Pelchat the former manager of Mt Washington State Park made an effort to get the summit building open earlier in the season as early season hikers were depositing crap where ever they could get out of the wind.

Raven
09-13-2018, 03:42 PM
If I dig out my copy of the AMC Huts EIS from years ago I believe one of the justifications of the huts is that it reduces overall environmental degradation to sensitive areas by providing a method of collecting and treating human waste. Without the huts there would be no sanitary systems in place at generally high use areas yet the usage would remain. Maybe at one point the hut guests were the major users of the toilets but expect these days they are minority compared to day hikers. Generally when I am at a hut during peak day hiking hours there is line of mostly day hikers waiting to use the facilities. Without them the "lilies" that crop up near treeline on trails away from huts would increase near the huts. Take a look in the woods just below treeline on Falling Waters or Cap Ridge, every water bar and every break in the vegetation has a pile of toilet paper. Therefore to me there is public service in flying out the public poop despite being comingled with guest poop.

I would rather have some entity providing and maintaining toilet faculties at high use areas than the alternative. I have not hiked Mt Whitney in CA and other high use areas but my understanding is despite rules in place that human waste must be carried out that there typically are plenty of "surprises" behind most rocks along the trail. I have personally witnessed the toilet areas adjacent to some of the AT shelters through the Smoky Mountain National park and far prefer the recent transition to composting privies. The toilet areas are a couple of acres of open woods with piles of toilet paper and crap behind every tree and frequently in plain sight. Mike Pelchat the former manager of Mt Washington State Park made an effort to get the summit building open earlier in the season as early season hikers were depositing crap where ever they could get out of the wind.

The Smokies were the worst. Ugh. Glad they upgraded.

High use areas need some facilities because people cannot follow directions consistently and across the board. It's not something that half the people can get wrong.

CaptCaper
09-15-2018, 08:01 PM
Good for Presby... he does have class.. more then the Glen House in design etc. for sure..

TJsName
09-16-2018, 02:02 AM
Where do the poo from the Washington summit go?

peakbagger
09-16-2018, 07:11 AM
There is a pretty extensive wastewater treatment system on the summit designed for cold conditions, The biological wastes get digested by the biology in the system. The problem is the non biological solids that get deposited in the system. These solids usually settle out and need to be pumped out on occasion. Not sure of the current practice but there was a local firm that had a septic tank truck with a I Climbed MT Washington sticker on its bumper. I knew someone that got to be a passenger on a sunset drive up and down from the summit for a pump out. Depending on which company has the contract the contents would get further processing at the Berlin, Gorham or Conway municipal plants before getting landfilled most likely at the AVRRD landfill in Success. Note the treated wastewater drains down into ground and given the systems location I expect it eventually joins the headwaters of the drainage from the Great Gulf.

There are issues with the summit's wastewater system. Its a biological system and has to build up a colony of the right types of bacteria to handle the volume of waste. In the early season the colony is too small to process the surges in flow when the cog and autoroad get opened. As mentioned earlier in the thread the former manager of the state park wanted to open the summit building to hikers in early season to "prime" the system. There are various claims on the ability of the system to handle the number of guests at the summit. It most likely could be upgraded. The owner of the cog is actively pushing the installation of pipe to the base station complex where a large wastewater system would be built on cog property. If the cog hotel were to be built, this would be very handy asset as trying to engineer and permit an on site wastewater treatment system for the proposed cog hotel would be challenging and expensive.

I am not familiar with the summit wastewater treatment systems but would guess it is not strictly gravity and would require pumps and other electrical equipment to operate. This means it most likely has to use very expensive summit power, moving the system to the base would allow lower costs to operate. If someone was creative, a system to generate power from the waste flowing down from the summit to base station could be installed.

The politics of running a wastewater pipe and installing a septic system at the base station to serve the summit via the Cog could get interesting. To date the Cog has never actually submitted an application for a hotel as I expect even they realize the political winds are against them. If they did so and got denied I expect the offer may be withdrawn unless there are other benefits to the Cog. Similar to the power line already in place, a sewer line decreases the infrastructure costs of a future hotel. The owner of the Cog is representing that he is building the legacy for future generations of his family at the Cog so he may elect to delay the hotel application until he can garner political support to change the Coos County unincorporated planning and zoning rules and therefore allow the line to be installed but expect he may extract some promises for the offer. Given the current study on tourist capacity of the summit and that the Cog has been substantially increasing ridership to the summit, having the ability to control a possible solution to the summit wastewater disposal is good trump card to hold to ensure that the Cog can increase ridership

peakbagger
09-19-2018, 08:32 PM
Interesting article by Edith Tucker in the Thursday (9/20) Berlin Daily Sun about Cog employees creating fake facebook pages against Keep the Whites Wild and the cog owner encouraging one of his employees to use an assumed name to create a Change.org petition against the AMC's helipad. Keep the Whites Wild apparently traced it back to the cog crew and let various parties know about the campaigns. Also interesting is that the cog or its owner elected not to file a public comment against the helipad.

Note Edith is also a state representative in addition to one of the more respected long term reporters in the area.

I can't post a link to the article yet but expect it will end up somewhere in few days and will edit this when I can

The cog's owner Presby is doing what he can to protect what he thinks is his rights but so far he seems to be losing the regional PR battle. To date his supporters seem to be employees, friends of employees relatives, rail buffs and apparently "hikers" buying a ride up or down the mountain. I could speculate that the recent positive PR about the Glen House opening is probably pretty irksome to him.

Peaks
10-02-2018, 04:16 PM
Mount Whitney zone: WAG bags mandatory. Take poop with you.

CaptCaper
10-04-2018, 05:41 AM
Interesting article by Edith Tucker in the Thursday (9/20) Berlin Daily Sun about Cog employees creating fake facebook pages against Keep the Whites Wild and the cog owner encouraging one of his employees to use an assumed name to create a Change.org petition against the AMC's helipad. Keep the Whites Wild apparently traced it back to the cog crew and let various parties know about the campaigns. Also interesting is that the cog or its owner elected not to file a public comment against the helipad.

Note Edith is also a state representative in addition to one of the more respected long term reporters in the area.

I can't post a link to the article yet but expect it will end up somewhere in few days and will edit this when I can

The cog's owner Presby is doing what he can to protect what he thinks is his rights but so far he seems to be losing the regional PR battle. To date his supporters seem to be employees, friends of employees relatives, rail buffs and apparently "hikers" buying a ride up or down the mountain. I could speculate that the recent positive PR about the Glen House opening is probably pretty irksome to him.

I call it fake news... lot's of reporters don't get the facts straight.. I don't believe they'd bother doing this as you point out all. All hear say.

peakbagger
10-04-2018, 06:15 AM
To date his supporters seem to be employees, friends of employees, relatives, rail buffs and apparently "hikers" buying a ride up or down the mountain.

Since you admittedly fall into the above category, what are the facts that need straightening as you see them?

Barkingcat
10-04-2018, 07:43 AM
I call it fake news... lot's of reporters don't get the facts straight.. I don't believe they'd bother doing this as you point out all. All hear say.


To date his supporters seem to be employees, friends of employees, relatives, rail buffs and apparently "hikers" buying a ride up or down the mountain.

Since you admittedly fall into the above category, what are the facts that need straightening as you see them?

I miss the days when I could blissfully assume that VFFT members weren't GRU intelligence officers...

skiguy
10-04-2018, 01:03 PM
To date his supporters seem to be employees, friends of employees, relatives, rail buffs and apparently "hikers" buying a ride up or down the mountain.

Since you admittedly fall into the above category, what are the facts that need straightening as you see them?

"Seem to be"....yep that makes it a fact all right. Not to mention Edith is a politician.

JoshandBaron
10-04-2018, 01:57 PM
"Fake news!"

"What's fake about it?"

"Wouldn't you like to know..."