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Sherpa John
04-05-2005, 10:52 PM
OK folks... I'll try and make this painless. Sarah has 7 left as of this posting, 6 after sunday (god willing). I am trying to start the planning for her 48th. She plans to finish her quest on top of Moosilauke on Saturday, June 11th. Lets start with.. You are ALL invited.

Over the last few months there has been great discussion on who is coming and we made a decision (despite the flack we'll get for a large group) to try and set a VFTT record for most people on an individuals 48th peak. So, if your willing and able.. I sincerely invite you to mark your calendars and join us. Not to take anything away from anyone else's accomplishments but I think it says something for the courage Sarah has in hiking with diabetes.. this goes for anyone else with the affliction.

Ok.. now the Question:

I want to have a gathering place for after the hike where we all can gather and share in a BBQ and a celebration. Where are some good places? I was truly wondering, since I've never been to Ravin Lodge, how many people can Ravine Lodge accomodate? Is there a place there for a BBQ? How do I make reservations?

If this does not sound feasible.. does anyone have any good ideas for a place?

I appreciate the help folks and again.. if you wanna be apart of it as well.. feel free to add your yea below.

Sherpa John :eek:

spencer
04-06-2005, 06:40 AM
The Lodge holds about 90 I think.

call 603.764.5858 after about May 15th. or you can call 603.646.1607 now and ask if they'll make a reservation.

please don't congregate a zillion people on the summit. it's distasteful at best.

A lot of people have worked hard over many years to keep people reined in on the summit and I'd be willing to bet you couldn't keep a large group like that off the vegetation, no matter how hard you tried.

spencer

David Metsky
04-06-2005, 08:10 AM
Another Moosilauke veteren here, please don't try for a mass congregation on the summit. A big group is fine, especially if you approach from different trails so as not to have a massive group working its way up the mountain, but don't try for any records on the summit. Large groups have a way of trashing the area even if they have no intention of doing so. I've certainly been guilty of being a member of a large group, but there's no need to set out trying to be the largest. It's really not in keeping with Dartmouth's stewardship of the land.

The Lodge can host a large group for dinner, probably 90+. But if you want exclusive use of the place you'll probably have to make reservations for the night as well. Call early, since once reservations come in for individuals it's hard to get the entire place.

Congrats to Sarah on her pending 48th. I can't think of a better place to celebrate the occasion.

-dave-

chomp
04-06-2005, 08:17 AM
we made a decision (despite the flack we'll get for a large group) to try and set a VFTT record for most people on an individuals 48th peak.

IMO, this is a bad decision. I know that there have been some very large groups in the past for VFTTers finishing. I was involved in one of those hikes, but I chose to take a different trail to the summit and in fact missed the group at the top. I did, however, have a good time when I got down.

I guess my point is - its great to share something like this with other people. But making plans with the intention of having a very large group on the summit is in poor taste. There is no VFTT "record" on the number of people celebrating a finish, and for good reason. By setting a record, you are encouraging someone else to try to break that record. It is the same reason that the AMC doesn't recognize a speed record for the 48. Its the same reason that the ATC doesn't recognize a speed record for the Appalachian Trail.

So please, invite those that you would like to share this moment with you. But I would hope that you reconsider your intention to have the biggest group possible.

Warren
04-06-2005, 08:33 AM
There is no VFTT "record" on the number of people celebrating a finish, and for good reason. By setting a record, you are encouraging someone else to try to break that record.

I'll chime in and support spencer, chomp & dave. It sets a not so great precedent.

dr_wu002
04-06-2005, 08:42 AM
I think it would reflect poorly on VFTT as well. There will be non-VFTT people on the summit who will undoubtably feel uncomfortable with such an enormous group there and when they hear that we're all from VFTT the site could get a bad rep. Not that Tom, Eric and I (http://grannygear.com/Assets/Images/Races/Moab/2004/Sleestack_Virus.jpg) hiking around telling people we're from VFTT helps either!

-Dr. Wu

el-bagr
04-06-2005, 01:00 PM
As usual, I'm with Dave and Spencer. Tread not at all. Anticipatory congrats to Sarah.

roadtripper
04-06-2005, 01:48 PM
Seriously though, I think VFTT-er's are going to be equally respectful and cautious whether they are hiking solo or with a group of 100. I'm wondering, though, if you'd actually have a more memorable time celebrating her achievement with just a few select people, or maybe even just the two of you....

arm
04-06-2005, 02:35 PM
another vote for not gathering a large crowd

you can split up your group into ten-or-less teams, up separate trails, but it'll still be buzzkill central when someone else reaches the summit and there's a cast of thousands hoarding the summit

besides, poor HarryK would have to carry a half keg to fulfill his usual beer delivery service ! :eek:

gather as many friends as you like at some post-hike gathering and let your hair hang down

early congrats to Sarah for reaching her 48th

Sherpa John
04-06-2005, 02:39 PM
I certainly respect the opinions of those above... however my post was rather vague. Let me clarify a few things.

Most on a 48th Summit: I certainly invite all those who wish to join us whether it be at the summit or afterwards at the bottom. It is essentially a rather funny (haha) joke where as we are just spoofing off of Whacking weekend... ya know.. the most people in Steve Smiths store at one time.

Leave No trace: Sarah and I are the trail adopters of Jefferson Loop Trail 100% above treeline. I have also educated people on Franconia Ridge about Leave No Trace Ethics. The same rules we have hiked with (sarah for 4 years, myself for 13) will apply on this hike.

Seperate Trails: Sometimes I wish people would give me a little more credit. My plan was not to have a long train of hikers slugging up the same trail. It was always my intention to request those who wish to join us go up different trails.

Sarah's wishes: "Myself, her family, and anyone else from views from the top" to quote her. So I put out the invitation per her wishes. Want me to be specific? Sherpa K, George Fitch, The Banned Afka_bob, Pete Hickey, Bob and Geri, Stinkyfeet, frodo, Momhamed, Danette, Dugan, Jim Lombard, McRat, Albee, KlTilton, Beverly, Dr_wu, Mark, HarryK, Donna, MEB, youngblood, Rick.... is this getting too large for some comfort? :confused: I go by what the woman I love wants... there it is. Its HER day and I respect her wishes. How many people were on Sli's 48th this past winter?

I'm not just some idiot guys, just because I look young. Sure... inviting a mass of people seems odd, but it was with the expectation that only 15 people would show up anyway. Most of those being the names I listed above. The other plan I had was to have us all get into the ole foundation of the old hotel.. I believe it is all rock in there.

Thank you for the input though... now does anyone have any advice on how we could BETTER celebrate after the hike to perhaps pursuade people from being on the summit? yes.. a diversion... something less negative. And Keep in mind... this isn't a chat room.

chomp
04-06-2005, 02:56 PM
I'm not just some idiot guys, just because I look young. Sure... inviting a mass of people seems odd, but it was with the expectation that only 15 people would show up anyway.

I am sorry that you didn't get the kind of response that you would have hoped from your post, John, but I don't think that anyone here misunderstood your intentions. You even mentioned in your first post that it was your plan "despite the flack we'll get". So you knew that this was going to be an unpopular decision before you even made the post. Don't be suprised to get negitive responses to something that you already think you are going to get negitive responses for.

As for mentioning "The Banned Afka_bob" and "And Keep in mind... this isn't a chat room" in the same post, I hope that this is a joke rather than a not-so-subtle comment about the administration style here. Because most of the members are in favor of the way Darren handles things. I was one of the many complaining about afka_bob's behavior on this site, and I am glad to see that he got a time-out.

Sherpa John
04-06-2005, 03:04 PM
As for mentioning "The Banned Afka_bob" and "And Keep in mind... this isn't a chat room" in the same post, I hope that this is a joke rather than a not-so-subtle comment about the administration style here. Because most of the members are in favor of the way Darren handles things. I was one of the many complaining about afka_bob's behavior on this site, and I am glad to see that he got a time-out.

It was a joke yes... I agree very much with the way things are run here as well. If I didn't.. I would leave like some of the others I know. I was also not a fan of Afka_bob at first, I'm not trying to choose a side but.. he and I burried the hatchet. But I can see how his behavior would warrant being banned so.. its all good.

As far as "the chat room feel" That I DID mean.. not as a shot to the admins... but the fact that people came on and just posted how they agree with so and so.. I guess in my interpretations of the site.. I figure that if someone all ready said it, it doesn't need to be said a third or fourth time. it becoms counter productive to my original question.. just a lot of yup, yup, yup, no, yup, yup. Its needless.

Also a sorry... I knew I was going to get flack... but I didn;t expect all 7 initial replies to be ALL flack. Its a bit ridiculous IMHO, Metsky's post was enough for me to understand... and I again appreciate and respect your opinions. But come on man!

chomp
04-06-2005, 03:15 PM
now does anyone have any advice on how we could BETTER celebrate after the hike to perhaps pursuade people from being on the summit?

Forgot to mention that the Woodstock Station is a very popular meeting spot for this crew. There is a function room of sorts that you can reserve in advance. I think that this room can hold about 30 or more people, so depending on how large your group gets, this could be an option.

GeorgeFitch
04-06-2005, 06:38 PM
There's a waitress at the Woodstock Station with a large wooden paddle in her hand, just waiting for this crew to return...

Mark
04-06-2005, 06:49 PM
There's a waitress at the Woodstock Station with a large wooden paddle in her hand, just waiting for this crew to return...
Oh, yeah - we have to make sure she is working that night!

I'll be there if I can and promise to tread lightly on the summit and not take up too much space. The 30+ people who showed up for Seema's 48th certainly didn't make the mountain feel crowded for me (just the opposite), so I'm OK with the plans.

pbernard
04-06-2005, 07:00 PM
I guess I am a bit confused here. John if you wish to invite others on Sarah's hike, you have every right to do so. I thought that was the reason for the trips and events thread. How can anyone judge how many may show up? I can also understand those who are concerned with the overcrowding issue.
Regardless, I hope you and Sarah and anyone else has a great day on the mountain, after all isn't that why we all visit VFTT? As for the afka dude, he should stay banned, this is not a comedy or philosophy site but a hiking and climbing site for those to share information. Thanks to Darren, and lets all respect one another. Again, best wishes to you and Sarah.

Dr. Dasypodidae
04-06-2005, 08:16 PM
Seems like a great thread on which to make my annual plea to tread lightly on fragile trails, such as the Glencliff Trail, during Mud Season (i.e., please wear something lighter than stiff plastic winter climbing boots that severely tear up the thawing soil, etc.). One advantage to saving the mob siege mentality for winter is that the peaks, trails, and vegetation are less fragile than they are in the other seasons, especially the spring.

Sherpa John
04-06-2005, 10:11 PM
I guess I am a bit confused here. John if you wish to invite others on Sarah's hike, you have every right to do so. I thought that was the reason for the trips and events thread. How can anyone judge how many may show up? I can also understand those who are concerned with the overcrowding issue.
Regardless, I hope you and Sarah and anyone else has a great day on the mountain, after all isn't that why we all visit VFTT? As for the afka dude, he should stay banned, this is not a comedy or philosophy site but a hiking and climbing site for those to share information. Thanks to Darren, and lets all respect one another. Again, best wishes to you and Sarah.

AMEN to all of that... perhaps I should re-word my intial post.

Take out the word "RECORD" and please just replace it with... "We're hiking June 11th to celebrate Sarah's 48th... how many kiddies wanna come play with us?!" WHO WANTS TO HIKE!? As in... A TRIP... AN EVENT... what we all do TOGETHER from the confines of this site and have a damn good time doing it.

Sarah Says.."George, I'll bring my own wooden paddle for John for starting me on this damn list. hehe" :D

albee
04-06-2005, 10:50 PM
If I were Sarah, I'd be flattered that so many people assume that dozens upon dozens of VFTTers would flock to Moosilauke and overrun the mountain in order to join her on her 48th. She must be really popular! I guess the two of you are known to really draw a crowd.

Oh, and no offense, but shouldn't this post be in the trips and events forum?

I'll try and make it if I can. Maybe I'll bushwhack it solo from the North, making sure to avoid anything that looks like mud or fragile vegetation. :D

GeorgeFitch
04-07-2005, 08:53 AM
so many people assume that dozens upon dozens of VFTTers would flock to Moosilauke and overrun the mountain
This isn't directed at you albee. I'm using your post to vent a little. And not just about some of the above, but about what goes on in general.

[sarcasm on]
Thank God there are so many SHEPHERDS on this forum to keep us SHEEP in line.
[sarcasm off]

Stewards, your intentions are good. Admirable, even. But please remember. We are fellow VFTTers. We are fellow hikers. WE GET IT. Many of us were practicing "Leave No Trace" and "Carry In - Carry Out" before those phrases existed. You are not our shepherds and we are not your sheep. You walk on your two feet and we'll walk on our four. I mean two.

Pemi Pete
04-07-2005, 09:11 AM
>>Stewards, your intentions are good. Admirable, even. But please remember. We are fellow VFTTers. We are fellow hikers. WE GET IT... You are not our shepherds and we are not your sheep.<<


With all due respect, unless you personally know every single person on this board, I don't think we should assume everyone here GETS IT. In my opinion--and many others' on this board--encouraging large crowds on summits is definitely not GETTING IT. Do I detect some elitist sheep who live by a double standard here?

SJ's comment about breaking a record for the most people on the summit was most likely made in jest--he says it was--but that comment touched a nerve in a lot of folks, understandably so. The trouble with being sarcastic, making jokes, etc., is that people don't know when you're (not your) joking and when you're serious.

Chomp has it right IMO.

SherpaKroto
04-07-2005, 09:43 AM
Hmmm... Valid points all sides, so please, let's not have this deteriorate into a fingerpointing session (it mostly hasn't so far).

Limiting 10 to a trail would be admirable (Seema's 48th did not, but as others had mentioned, it was winter. 3 trails were used. MichaelJ's had folks on most trails on the mountain).

I know how happy I was when 20 showed up on Sandwich for my 100th (summit, not b'day;)). The largest group on any trail up was 11 (I chose Algonquin up, Smarts down, neither the most popular). Sarah has earned the right to celebrate in this way. I've personally seen Dartmouth groups over 20 strong (not a slam to you Dartmouth folks - just a statement of fact as I saw nothing wrong with their behavior - found it refreshing). This mountain is very well managed (quite a few VFTTers are involved), and by sticking to the carefully laid out paths, environmental impact can be minimized. By June 11th, southwesterly facing trails should be quite dry. IMHO, for a large group, this is a very good choice to hike.

Take it easy on SJ! He's a good guy, a bit enthusiastic, but what's wrong with that? Passion at a young age is inspiring. Meeting him and Sarah has been a pleasure. I hope to hike again with them very soon. I love meeting and hiking with a lot of folks, and they are both keepers in my book.

Maybe we should all learn to finish on Washington... I'd love to see anyone criticize that

sapblatt
04-07-2005, 09:50 AM
Maybe we should all learn to finish on Washington... I'd love to see anyone criticize that

The summit/zoo of Washington is one to get out of the way...not to rejoice on! ;)

David Metsky
04-07-2005, 10:00 AM
I agree, there's no need for finger pointing or flaming at other posters. We're all expressing well earned and informed opinions, nothing wrong with that.

In the real world, it's hard to live up to all the principles that we'd like to live by. Hiking in smaller groups is environmentally less impact, but many of us like large celebratory groups to witness our accomplishments. So I'm all in favor of having a party at the summit, it's certainly seen larger groups. Let's not forget there was a hotel up there for 80 years.

I think the idea of going out with the intention of trying to set a record was what pushed the buttons of Spencer and I, we've both spend a lot of time up there building scree walls and repairing damage caused by people wandering off the hardened summit area. But SJ has cleared that up, no concerns on my part anymore. We're all friends here.

As to a place to party afterwards, definately call the Lodge. That might be during Dartmouth reunions which tend to book the place early. Woodstock Station is a great option as Chomp said. There's a BBQ place in Woodstock but it's mainly takeout. Truant's Tavern in Woodstock also has a large room somewhere, but IMO the food is not quite as good. Some friends run the Maple Haven Campground (http://www.maplehavenresort.com/) on Rt 112 and could probably set up a BBQ. One of the people who run the place is an accomplished chef. There are a few other campgrounds close by as well.

I can't plan that far ahead, but if I'm in the area then count me in for the hike.

-dave-

twigeater
04-07-2005, 10:09 AM
Congrats to Sara!
Living with diabetes is not easy, and managing it while hiking has got to be tough. So double congrats! :)

I agree with others that we should never assume that just because people are members of an internet forum that we all "get it" or even that we interpret what "get it" means in the same way (remember the moose antler thread...)
I can't count the number of times I've been on internet trips where the words "what the bleeping bleep are you doing!!!!" just fell right out of my mouth without me even thinking.

:D

pbernard
04-07-2005, 10:14 AM
Well said Dave. The Lost River Valley Campground on 112, just outside of Woodstock is clean and nice too. www.lostriver.com (lostriver.com)

chomp
04-07-2005, 10:27 AM
I think the idea of going out with the intention of trying to set a record was what pushed the buttons of Spencer and I, ... But SJ has cleared that up, no concerns on my part anymore. We're all friends here.

...

I can't plan that far ahead, but if I'm in the area then count me in for the hike.


ditto - dave said it all

GeorgeFitch
04-07-2005, 12:54 PM
Spencer and I, we've both spend a lot of time up there building scree walls and repairing damage caused by people wandering off the hardened summit area.
Believe me, your work doesn't go unnoticed. Thanks for all you do to preserve one of the finest peaks around.

:)

spencer
04-07-2005, 01:10 PM
I'm glad this thread has turned around. Nice work, VFTT'ers!

George,

I have to agree with others that just b/c one hikes and cares a lot about hiking doesn't mean everyone knows/cares enough to do the right thing when the opportunity arises.

There are many stewards, such as yourself, who treat LNT as common sense, but I think many still see its principles as a newfangled idea of the greenies or just don't see its importance.

Nevertheless, I still think it's very hard to congregate such a large group and not impact a summit.

Please try even harder...

spencer

Jasonst
04-07-2005, 01:30 PM
An innocent question...

How does 1 group of 100 "impact" the summit environment more than 10 groups of 10? I am having a hard time grasping this "impact" concept, especially when dealing with a rocky summit. I can understand impact in, say, the Alpine Garden where stuff might get trampled but a rocky summit where people used to sleep, tour etc.

My aim is NOT to inflame, but I guess I just don't "get it".

spencer
04-07-2005, 01:52 PM
Jason,

the summit is mostly rocky, however when you leave the "boundaries" of the scree walls there is plenty of vegetation between rocks, on top of rocks, etc.

With lots of people in one place at one time, people are physically forced to disperse, meaning even if people try to, they cannot stay within the bounds laid out by trail workers, ecologists, etc.

While I know its hard to think that killing one small plant is making an impact, it really does add up when lots of people (over time, not necessarily at once) visit a treasured area.

As the Waterman's say, "We are loving the mountains to death!"

Fewer people at any given time can more easily avoid areas they are not supposed to be.

That is the ecological reason.

The social reasons are just as big, although more selfish. Many of us (not always me, but sometimes me) seek the hills for solitude or what people consider to be a wilderness experience (let's not debate whether it is or isn't). If I reach a summit with 10, 20, 30, or more people on it, I lose a some sense of the grandeur that I usually seek.

Sometimes we go to the hills to count, sometimes to set records, sometimes for beauty, sometimes for recreation, and sometimes just because. Large groups diminish all but the first two.

The Alpine Garden is just a prettier version of every other alpine zone... It's famous b/c it gets more flowers than many other alpine areas, b/c it has a name, and b/c it's on Washington.

If I could name the flat summit of Moosilauke McKenney's Meadow, I would.

spencer

David Metsky
04-07-2005, 01:53 PM
100 people together take up a lot of space. People gather in groups and others need to go much wider to get around, often walking on vegitation that they otherwise wouldn't have to. Sometimes the obvious path is blocked, or people want to give others some space, or they don't want to walk through a very large group to get to the summit sign.

There is limited amount (though a lot on Moosilauke) of hardened space on a summit. When groups are smaller, they don't tend to congregate in a single spot. 10 groups of 10 people would have less congestion than one group of 100, all trying to be close to the summit sign when the guest of honor arrives at the top.

It's the same reason that small groups on the trail should give way to large groups, since a small group stepping off the trail does less damage than a large group.

Just my $.02.

-dave-

GeorgeFitch
04-07-2005, 01:55 PM
Please try even harder...
I was picking up litter ON MOOSILAUKE nine years before you were born. But thanks for the advice, Dad!

spencer
04-07-2005, 02:02 PM
Nevertheless, I still think it's very hard to congregate such a large group and not impact a summit.

Please try even harder...


What I meant was please try as hard as it takes to congregate without impacting. I wasn't saying you need to try harder than you are doing.

spencer

GeorgeFitch
04-07-2005, 02:19 PM
Sorry I took it the wrong way. You are right.

Jasonst
04-07-2005, 02:24 PM
I agree with you guys, and see your points better. Thanks for the reasoned replies.

mavs00
04-07-2005, 02:46 PM
Just a point from a VFTT bystander not involved...........................

WHAT A REFRESHING THREAD....

What started poorly worded statment, was responded to, re-worded by the initial poster and the discussion ultimately cleanly went to very nice point, without any uglieness.

I know this is a useless post (server hogging), but I cannot tell you how refreshing it is, given recent trends. Thanks SJ, original Sherpa, Dave, Chomp and all the other participants for reminding why I like this place so much.

Good luck to Sarah on completing this journey and may your celebration be special and deserving of her hard work. I cannot tell you how much it meant to share "our" 46th summit with 250 of our closest freinds :eek: .

Yeah......... 14 with us and 236 strangers who drove up the toll road to join us. :rolleyes: .

Thanks Again

Sherpa John
04-07-2005, 04:14 PM
1st: I want to thank all of you for posting. Your input is greatly appreciated. I am also glad to see that the negative vibe (typical as of late) was turned around into something more productive. I also want to thank those individuals who sent me e-mails to my personal address and PM's on here. Its the encouragement of others that helps me keep my head high. Yes I knew there would be flak in this thread... and it came from those whom I knew would give it though I do know they meant no harm. Its just frustrating sometimes ya know? Why can;t we all just love one another and be positive?

2nd: As far as JUNE 11th goes. The open invitation to anyone who wishes to join still stands. As the date gets closer I will post in Trips and Events about post hike celebrations. I will also post the trails the ascend Moosilauke and ask at that time that people kind of "sign up" to go on a certain trail to make sure we are spread out. I anticipate a group no larger than 20-25 at this time. Also... while on the summit, we will be especially mindful of the vegetation and such, it has ALWAYS been important to sarah and I and we even spoke of this topic and her 48th previously. Our plan is to hope everyone can find a place NEAR the summit so we can all celebrate in a very enviro-friendly manner. if we notice ANYONE on the outside of the screewalls, then we'll start a pack-up and leave sequence to get everyone dispersed again. In our eyes, it is highly unacceptable... and we do "GET IT".

Actually I get it alot.. err ah... wrong subject ;)

Anyway... as far as this thread goes.. I would again like to re-emphasize as I have in the past that we are all readers of written word. We spend our time "interpreting" others. It is very hard to find the right words from time to time and thats when people jump to conclusions and what not. Please folks, I think it is VERY important that we all take some time to be mindful of our fellow posters and hikers. We are all on different playing fields in terms of intelligence levels and levels at which we comprhend subjects. Lets stop jumping the gun and being critical of one another.

Thanks to Sherpa K's kind words as well, its nice to see a new face in the "stick up for SJ" crowd. lol. And anyone else who wishes to hike with me.. open invitation anytime. I LOVE meeting new people and freaking them out with my randomnes and weird tendacy's. Perhaps thats why everyone I have hiked with, I have hiked with again.

And now.. some shameless plugging:
48 Showings:
Apr. 9th @ Dartmouth College 7pm FREE
Apr. 12th @ Stonehille College 7pm FREE
Apr. 16th @ FTFC Dinner (FILM SHOWING!!) FREE
Apr. 30th @ EMS Concord (Upgrade your gear day) Oooo!
You know you guys wanna come.. so COME! Still plenty of money to be raised oh and it's about that time when I ask...

If anyone sees a Sherpa wearing red gear in the whites this summer, laying dead on the trail from exhaustion.. its me trying to chase a different record... just splash some water on me or better yet.. CPR... now theres a scary visual huh? YOU giving ME CPR?
:eek:

Seriously folks... thank you.

RGF1
04-07-2005, 07:05 PM
1st: I want to thank all of you for posting. Your input is greatly appreciated. I am also glad to see that the negative vibe (typical as of late) was turned around into something more productive. I also want to thank those individuals who sent me e-mails to my personal address and PM's on here. Its the encouragement of others that helps me keep my head high. Yes I knew there would be flak in this thread... and it came from those whom I knew would give it though I do know they meant no harm. Its just frustrating sometimes ya know? Why can;t we all just love one another and be positive?

2nd: As far as JUNE 11th goes. The open invitation to anyone who wishes to join still stands. As the date gets closer I will post in Trips and Events about post hike celebrations. I will also post the trails the ascend Moosilauke and ask at that time that people kind of "sign up" to go on a certain trail to make sure we are spread out. I anticipate a group no larger than 20-25 at this time. Also... while on the summit, we will be especially mindful of the vegetation and such, it has ALWAYS been important to sarah and I and we even spoke of this topic and her 48th previously. Our plan is to hope everyone can find a place NEAR the summit so we can all celebrate in a very enviro-friendly manner. if we notice ANYONE on the outside of the screewalls, then we'll start a pack-up and leave sequence to get everyone dispersed again. In our eyes, it is highly unacceptable... and we do "GET IT".

Actually I get it alot.. err ah... wrong subject ;)

Anyway... as far as this thread goes.. I would again like to re-emphasize as I have in the past that we are all readers of written word. We spend our time "interpreting" others. It is very hard to find the right words from time to time and thats when people jump to conclusions and what not. Please folks, I think it is VERY important that we all take some time to be mindful of our fellow posters and hikers. We are all on different playing fields in terms of intelligence levels and levels at which we comprhend subjects. Lets stop jumping the gun and being critical of one another.

Thanks to Sherpa K's kind words as well, its nice to see a new face in the "stick up for SJ" crowd. lol. And anyone else who wishes to hike with me.. open invitation anytime. I LOVE meeting new people and freaking them out with my randomnes and weird tendacy's. Perhaps thats why everyone I have hiked with, I have hiked with again.

And now.. some shameless plugging:
48 Showings:
Apr. 9th @ Dartmouth College 7pm FREE
Apr. 12th @ Stonehille College 7pm FREE
Apr. 16th @ FTFC Dinner (FILM SHOWING!!) FREE
Apr. 30th @ EMS Concord (Upgrade your gear day) Oooo!
You know you guys wanna come.. so COME! Still plenty of money to be raised oh and it's about that time when I ask...

If anyone sees a Sherpa wearing red gear in the whites this summer, laying dead on the trail from exhaustion.. its me trying to chase a different record... just splash some water on me or better yet.. CPR... now theres a scary visual huh? YOU giving ME CPR?
:eek:

Seriously folks... thank you.
Sherpa John. Putting all the stuff on this thread aside . I just want to that I admire what you are doing for your Girlfriend ! it must mean a lot her and you .
As some one with different disablity I think what you are doing for diabites is admirable and a very good thing. I know you mean well and My hat is off to Sara .
I hope you both have amny adventures or even liststo complete if you desire.
.
May I suggest the 14,000 ft peaks in CO . . They are my mountain home away from home .
I envy you in that you have a girlfriend who hiukes and understands about wanting to go hiking .

Sherpa John
04-08-2005, 02:49 PM
Thanks RFG... I have thought of doing rhe 14ers but.. I have a swath of lists and things I wish to do arond here 1st. 100 Highest, 111, NE 4's, NH48 in Winter from all 4 points of the compass solo, NH48 Winter, NH48 the fastest, White Mountain Hut Traverse Record... the lists go on. Its really a lot of fun though and I'm sure I'll make my way to Colorado. I wanna hike with Ralston once. That would be great! thanks for your encouragement.

On a side note... I wanted to put up something sent to me in an e-mail. The following are NOT my words but I find them very vaild to previous conversation. I am taking names out of the text as well to try and avoid fingerpointing.

Here it is: "SJ, There seems to be some sort of legal precedent for 32
or fewer VFFTers summiting Mossilauke at once, if VFFT
approval is assumed in this case: http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4989 (Person A) does not comment in this thread, but Person B) does, and seems to have no criticism of the event.
Photo of the event (41.jpg, scroll pretty far down): http://rbhayes.net/seema.html"

Very interesting indeed. What I posted would be more vaild if I left names in rather than A and B but.. I mean no harm. But what I do wish to add is that the main reasoning behind Seema's trip being "ok" was because it was winter. Point of order... if one looks closely at the pictures, one can see that there is VERY LITTLE snow at all on top of Moose that day and a negative impact could have been imminent.

Another e-mail: "You know what kind of frosts my butt? When Seema was going to finish her 48th peak, a zillion people all chimed in and said they would be there and everybody thought that was cool and nobody said a word about impacting the summit area. But you make an equally valid request for some company on top and suddenly all the (Person A's) and their sychophants chime in and say it's a bad idea. Gotta love it!"

Another Valid point and thanks again to all those who sent me e-mails and encourahing thoughts. Sorry if this re-ignites discussion but again.. I felt these points very alid to the conversation and thought they should be said in anonymity. Also.. I appologize to seema for using the memory of her ascent in this way.

:(

Jasonst
04-08-2005, 02:58 PM
Try Colorado soon, preferably the southwest (San Juans) It will definitley expand your view of our hills! (no offense intended to anyone)

SJ - Also, I am an innocent bystander having not participated in any of these hikes, but it seems that the major concern from most is "impact" or the trampelling of flowers, plants etc. You must admit that this can be less of an issue in the winter. The only other issue I can see is "aloneness" and I can't think of a good excuse for depriving others of that, list or no list. Let it go... ;)

Sherpa John
04-08-2005, 03:17 PM
::lets go:: .'.'.'.'.'.'. ::walks away::

chomp
04-08-2005, 03:39 PM
Sorry if this re-ignites discussion but again.. I felt these points very alid to the conversation and thought they should be said in anonymity. Also.. I appologize to seema for using the memory of her ascent in this way.

:(

Thanks for the extra dose of double talk, John. You are not sorry to re-ignite this discussion, but rather its exactly what you want. If you didn't want to keep this conversation going, you would have let this thread died out after it reached a very ammicable conclusion. But you have to prove yourself right no matter what, and you want to hammer your point in and hope that people stop responding. Well, I'll bite, mostly because I still think you are wrong.

First off, posting personal emails in a public forum is a major faux-pas. Those emails were sent to you in confidance, off-thread, for a reason. I realize that you did not share the names of those people, but if they wanted their comments to you made public, they could have done it. Poor form, IMO.

Second, the comparisons of Sarah's hike to Seema's hike are apples and oranges. Seema never set out to set a "record", you did. This was the source of misunderstanding. Seema invited anyone that wanted to join her, and ended up with 32(?). You stated from the outset that you wanted to break that number instead of taking a similar path. This reason, and ONLY this reason, is what caused this discussion - it has nothing to do with a YOU vs. Seema issue that you seem intent on pursuing.

In fact, you have since retracted your intention to set a "record" on the summit. Immediatly after that, everyone dropped their objections. A few people (myself included) even said that we might join you guys on your hike. So why bring this back up again? This issue was resolved, at least I thought it was. Instead, you are implying that people like Seema and look the other way at her hikes, while people don't like you and are more critical of your endevors. This is not true.

Finally, as for welcoming SherpaK to the "stick up for SJ" crowd - maybe you should re-examine your posts and wonder why exactly it is that you need such a crowd.

In closing, I don't want this to be taken as an anti-SherpaJohn post. I was at the first showing of '48', I think that what you are trying to do is admirable, and I think that Sarah's accomplishment deserves more than this type of post. However, I think that your interpretation of people's opinions on this thread is not correct.

Dr. Dasypodidae
04-08-2005, 03:42 PM
I agree with Jason about the need to make the distinction between summer time and winter time human impact on vegetation. My plant ecology colleagues (many with PhDs) tell me that even during our recent winters when alpine vegetation has been exposed more than usual, tundra plants are much hardier than they are in summer; I believe the word to describe vegetative shut down in the winter is dormancy. Ditto with trees wihen you talk to arborists.

I am more concerned about alpine and subalpine plants over the next couple of months of mud season, as folks try to avoide the mud in the middle of trails. Of course, staying in the middle of trails also leads to erosion, so the best we can do is attempt to tread lightly (i.e., abandon the heavy, sharp-edged, plastic climbing boots in favor of something softer).

My guess is that by mid-June, the trails and summit area will be pretty much dried out on Moosilauke, and that the alpine stewards from the DOC and USFS will be patrolling the top on weekends to ensure that hikers stay on the rock and off the vegetation.

As for crowds in the mountains, I tend to avoid them, although joining about 45 others to accompany Brutus and Kevin for their last of the NH48 in one winter on Cannon was a hoot this past early March.